‘Bring them on’ - BUSH

[SadSue 0]

A Sammich, have a look at this, I think its closer to the truth lol

http://maddox.xmission.com/tictacs.html

Hope you don't get Banned!

[Genn 0]

LMAO.....Good one, SadSue!

[kallend 2,117]

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>Geee. Lets challenge/dare people to kill our Soldiers. Thats brilliant.

And there will be a lot more of them soon. From CBS News:

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Mitchell said the reconstruction efforts need to more extensively involve Iraqis in the process and must include thousands more troops — three or four times the current U.S. force of 150,000.
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600,000 troops to "pacify" Iraq, and they will have to be there for years. Good thing we're not going to occupy the place.

Yes - and a good job the Iraqis welcome us as liberators. Would be rough if they didn't want us there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TheAnvil 0]

This guy just committed political suicide. I knew some folks would get a jolt out of this. Tax the wealthy and give their money to the lazy via income re-distribution. Piss. What a stupid idea.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

I know he did... where do you think the money is going to come from now to defeat him now??? ha ha ha

Lets hope the Bush wises up a bit too, before he ticks too many people off before election day.

I'd just be happy with a one size fits all flat tax... no deductions. And, leave my damn overtime alone! 21% of my income last year was overtime pay.

[billvon 3,090]

>And, leave my damn overtime alone! 21% of my income last year
>was overtime pay.

But that means you should have no problems, right? As Chris pointed out above, only higher wage earners get overtime, so you can afford to make less. Right?

[PhillyKev 0]

I used to think a flat tax would be a good idea, too. Except that I found out that in order to generate the same revenue, it would need to be around 19%. That would be an increased tax burden for the majority of people.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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so you can afford to make less. Right?

You funny man... Not after the pay cuts I have already taken just to stay working. Remember the new overtime only protects those who earn below 22,000 something a year. I don't consider anything between that and 60k a High wage earner.

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Except that I found out that in order to generate the same revenue, it would need to be around 19%. That would be an increased tax burden for the majority of people.

Who's stats were those? Republicans or Dems? And 19% is not far off from what I get nailed for anyway.

[billvon 3,090]

>You funny man... Not after the pay cuts I have already taken just to stay working.

Good! I was trying to be funny, and it actually worked! Usually people take me seriously and just look at me funny.

[Muenkel 0]

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As Chris pointed out above, only higher wage earners get overtime, so you can afford to make less. Right?

Bill, quit the spin. The overtime cuts are targeted at the folks who are in supervisory and other positions that make a much higher hourly rate than most. The regular wage earner would not be affected. So the McDonald's counter person really has nothing to worry about. It's the typical "scare the elderly and poor" mantra the liberals are constantly spewing. It's getting old and fortunately, most of Americans are on to it. It may surprise you that people on the right are really not as dumb as the left would like to think.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[PhillyKev 0]

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Who's stats were those? Republicans or Dems? And 19% is not far off from what I get nailed for anyway.

The IRS:

2002:
Individual Income Tax:
-Gross collections = 1,037,734,000,000
-Total Personal Income = $8,922,320,185,000

That comes to 12%. But, that total personal income includes dividends, interest, investment returns, etc. which wouldn't be included in flat tax (at least according to the Forbes plan). I believe the source for the 19% figure was the WSJ, but don't recall.

Hell, it's a lot less than I get nailed for. But all those in the 15% would be nailed hard. Plus I wouldn't get to write off the 9% I pay in city and state income tax.

After all is said and done, 46% of my gross pay goes to the tax man.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Bill, quit the spin. The overtime cuts are targeted at the folks who are in supervisory and other

The others are skilled workers (including help desk people, support people and developers) things I do... that make over 22k+ a year.

[billvon 3,090]

>The overtime cuts are targeted at the folks who are in supervisory
>and other positions that make a much higher hourly rate than most.

Highly paid supervisors generally don't get overtime. They get a salary. A salaried position is one where you don't get overtime (usually) an hourly position is one where you do. That's certainly true around here; the lowest paid employees in "telecom alley" here get overtime. The engineers who work 70 hours a week don't - but they make enough so it doesn't matter.

Cutting overtime will hurt lower income workers, not higher paid salaried workers. Claiming otherwise makes about as much sense as claiming that tax cuts on stock dividends will benefit the poor, who generally own no stock.

>It's the typical "scare the elderly and poor" mantra the liberals are constantly spewing.

And claiming that overtime cuts won't hurt low income people is just a plain old lie. Believe it or not, there are people in the US who need to work overtime to make ends meet. People making a flat salary of $80K a year are not among those people - and they generally don't get overtime anyway.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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That comes to 12%. But, that total personal income includes dividends, interest, investment returns, etc. which wouldn't be included in flat tax (at least according to the Forbes plan).

But that is all income... and it should be included.

[TheAnvil 0]

Bush is ticking a lot of us conservatives off, but for me in particular he's not angered me to the point I'd vote against him - even for a third party candidate like my own libertarian party - and let a yellow belly like Kerry or Dean gain the presidency. There are a LOT of ticked off conservatives who vote that way just to keep the leftists out of elected office because their message is so unpalatable.

I too am for a flat tax, but only in conjunction with a national retail sales tax exempting gas and groceries (the gas exemption perturbs billvon, but I'm for it anyway; see another thread for that argument,; I have no desire to re-hash it).

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,090]

> There are a LOT of ticked off conservatives who vote that way just to
> keep the leftists out of elected office because their message is so
> unpalatable.

Yep. I keep wishing Powell would run. I'd vote for him in a second. For years he's been a voice of reason in this administration.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Bill, quit the spin. The overtime cuts are targeted at the folks who are in supervisory and other positions that make a much higher hourly rate than most.

I guess you missed the part of the plan where workers are reclassified so that anyone who makes independent decisions without having to check with a supervisor first is deemed as exempt from overtime.

No, the McD's counter person wouldn't be included. But lots and lots of office workers would be.

Directly from Bush's plan.

The test to see if an employee is exempt from overtime - "have a primary duty of either performing office or non-manual work directly related to management policies or general business operations of the employer or the employer's customers..."