who is to blame

[bodypilot90 0]

what do you think?

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Thursday, July 10, 2003

By EILEEN MARKEY
HERALD NEWS



Days after a pack of young people broke windows and threw pipes, bottles and garbage at a Westside family's home, neighbors said fault for the incident rests with everyone but the vandals themselves.

According to a Rutgers University psychologist, that reaction is common in communities that feel chronically victimized.

On Saturday night, the Alzamora family was eating a late-night snack on their front porch on Jasper Street when a teen walking by threatened Jason Alzamora, 28. He told the teen to keep walking.

But a few minutes later, the teen returned with a crowd of other youths, punched Alzamora and unleashed a barrage of violence. The group shattered the family's windows, pelted their house with pipes and bottles, upended garbage pails and battered the front door.

On Wednesday, some neighbors reacted to the attack with fear and sadness. But many others said police bear responsibility for the incident, because they told the kids to get off the corner of Jasper Street and Union Avenue.

It's City Hall's fault for failing to provide recreation for teens, neighbors said. It's the Alzamoras' fault because they insulted the teens, others charged.

"That man provoked them in some sort of way," said a woman, who gave her name only as Sandra and has lived in the area for 25 years. She pointed to liquor stores and businesses that do not sweep away trash on their curbs.

She even blamed the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for approving larger portions of prepackaged foods that grow bigger, stronger kids.

Another neighbor, who has lived on Jasper Street for 15 years, said the violent outburst was unavoidable after police had told a group of young people loitering on the corner of Jasper Street and Union Avenue to move on.

The teens had nowhere to go. When Jason Alzamora told one of the teens to get away from his home in the middle of the block between Union and Crosby avenues, the teen snapped, the man said.

"When you push all these kids up the street and it's hot and there's hassling, they break," said the man, who refused to give his name, saying, "This city has done nothing for me. I'm not going to do nothing for it."

The neighbors' responses could be an indication of community disintegration, said Philip Brown, director of the New Jersey Center for Character Education at Rutgers.

"It seems like chronic frustration at being unable to control their neighborhood," he said. "It implies a breakdown of boundaries. And that goes to the breakdown on the fringes of civil society, from incidents like road rage to this sort of thing, it's a breakdown in the boundaries between people. Did these kids know they were doing anything wrong?"

Brown works with school systems throughout the state, including Paterson, to make character development part of the curriculum. He said the neighborhood will continue to go downhill if adults, churches and civic leaders don't take a stand.

"If nobody cares enough to bring those kids together, then all you can expect is more of the same," he said.

Bilal Hakeem, a community activist from the 4th Ward, said religious leaders have to help the Westside.

"The responsibility falls on the religious community. Every imam, every preacher has to come out to the streets and try to heal the minds and souls of these kids who are going crazy," he said.

Jasper Street lies between the middle-class and generally orderly Totowa section of Paterson and the gritty, beleaguered Northside. In the past 10 years, some residents said, the neighborhood has declined precipitously.

The streets are dirtier, the houses rundown, and fewer neighbors know one another. The JSP Posse roams the area getting into fights, robbing people and selling drugs, according to the Passaic County Prosecutor's Office.

In November, the Sheriff's Department seized $40,000 worth of heroin from the basement of a house on the street. The homeowner was reportedly unaware that dealers were using his basement as a drug distribution center.

At night, the corner of Union and Jasper is packed with young people.

"It's like a magnetic pull," said Regin Rivas, 25, who lives nearby on Preakness Avenue.

Older residents said they fear going out at night and are sick of loud music and public urination on their street. At the same time, they said they would mind their own business and refused to give their names for fear of retaliation from alleged gang members.

"I can see anything they do over there, I don't care," said a 60-year-old man, pointing half a block away. "If they don't do it around my house, I don't care."

Gibson Zayas, 29, has lived on Jasper Street all his life and said the neighborhood is falling apart. "Everyone's just worried about themselves," he said. "They just really don't care."

Police Chief Lawrence Spagnola said police responded to the Saturday night attack properly. Three patrol cars were at the corner of Union Avenue and Jasper Street minutes after the Alzamoras' 911 call, he said. Cops did not arrive at the Alzamoras' house until an hour after the family's first 911 call because they were busy looking for the fight and dispersing kids, he said. "They probably raced right up Jasper," he said.

Deputy Chief William Fraher said problems with rowdy youths are nothing new. "A lot of what ails them the police can't address," he said. "Unfortunately for Paterson, there's people here who lost hope. And if the place looks like a dump, people start to treat it like a dump. They behave differently."

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3JmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2NDAxMDk5JnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mw==

[Luv2Fall 0]

Yep, the teens are to blame. I fail to understand why either the government or society wants us to kiss troubled teens' asses.

Teens don't have enough to occupy themselves with these days ie, chores, responsibilities, families, etc. and do not possess the discipline to handle themselves in the absense of what they should be doing. This is due in part to lack of strong parental skills on the parts of their parent(s) and due in part because of today's progressive society...............whereby many things come easy. Having said that, a teen still has the capacity to make choices.

[Push 0]

You should allow multiple choices on your poll. That said, of course the teens are to blame. On the other hand, the question of how to solve the actual problem is a different matter. You're not going to solve anything if you just beat all people aged 10-19 over the head repeatedly. Better parenting, better education, better community service, stricter laws.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[bodypilot90 0]

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You're not going to solve anything if you just beat all people aged 10-19

true but I find it odd people want to blame the FDA. This group of kids needs a major league ass beating and a lesson in personal responsibility.

[Fast 0]

> She even blamed the U.S. Food and Drug
> Administration for approving larger portions of
> prepackaged foods that grow bigger, stronger kids


It makes me wonder about people who say stuff like that

(Although there was probally some misquoting going on)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[rehmwa 2]

Sandra is a great example of extreme left out of control behavior.

Mr Hixxx - you want to elevate?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Push 0]

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true but I find it odd people want to blame the FDA. This group of kids needs a major league ass beating and a lesson in personal responsibility.

Absolutely. Step one in solving the problem would be to stop the moronic finger pointing and start solving the problem. Step two, get these "teens" off the streets.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[TheRus 0]

I voted that it was the teens' fault only because I didn't have the option to choose their parents, who are ultimately at fault also.

Yeah, it's fine, we'll walk down the line. Leave our rain, a cold trade for warm sunshine
You my friend, I will defend... and if we change, well, I love you anyway

[PhillyKev 0]

Where's the option for GWB? It's his fault, of course

[Guest]

Hey, didn't Klinton's program to host late-night basketball have any effect at all?

Guess not.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[txblondie 0]

I think that the teens are to blame, but it possibly goes a little deeper than that. They should be taught morals at home starting at a young age.
I don't believe it's the city's fault or the policemen's fault because they did have somewhere to go--home! Teens do NOT have to be out all the time.
The FDA? Who are we kidding? That's ridiculous!
The family? Perhaps they said something provoking, but that's no reason to vandalize a house in a large group.
No, I think that it's the teens' fault--the only exception to that is that it comes from their parents and what they've taught (or not taught, as the case may be) that helps to influence the behavior.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[bodypilot90 0]

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I voted that it was the teens' fault only because I didn't have the option to choose their parents, who are ultimately at fault also.

Perhaps yes the parents are responsible, however the teens knew what they were doing was wrong and they in the long run will have to pay the price. I always knew when I was doing something I wasn't suppose to and I was never shocked when I got my butt beat. (when I got caught)

[PhillyKev 0]

I'm curious about your sig line:

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He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself...Thomas Paine

Did you post that to be sarcastic? I only ask because you've been one of the most outspoken people in favor of the current policies regarding treatment of suspected terrorists. And that quote is expressing the exact opposite sentiment.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Hey, didn't Klinton's program to host late-night basketball have any effect at all?

Guess not.

lol, I will not reply, i will not reply!

[RevJim 0]

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You're not going to solve anything if you just beat all people aged 10-19

Taking a step back a decade or 2 wouldn't hurt, in my opinion. I say if they step out of line, smack 'em silly. (It worked on me, why are the youth 20-30 years younger than me any different?)

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This group of kids needs a major league ass beating and a lesson in personal responsibility.

Sadly, I have news for you. It's not just these kids. It's now an extrememly overwhelming majority, backed by a large number of liberal childless adults. You know the ones, the ones that know how to raise children better than their parents, which is why they will never have children.

Step one, spankings. Properly administered, further steps are not needed.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[Luv2Fall 0]

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You're not going to solve anything if you just beat all people aged 10-19

Taking a step back a decade or 2 wouldn't hurt, in my opinion. I say if they step out of line, smack 'em silly. (It worked on me, why are the youth 20-30 years younger than me any different?)

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This group of kids needs a major league ass beating and a lesson in personal responsibility.

Sadly, I have news for you. It's not just these kids. It's now an extrememly overwhelming majority, backed by a large number of liberal childless adults. You know the ones, the ones that know how to raise children better than their parents, which is why they will never have children.

Step one, spankings. Properly administered, further steps are not needed.

Amen Rev!

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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Sadly, I have news for you. It's not just these kids. It's now an extrememly overwhelming majority, backed by a large number of liberal childless adults. You know the ones, the ones that know how to raise children better than their parents, which is why they will never have children.

It sounds like you're saying that there should be a spot on the poll to vote for "blame the liberals."

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Push 0]

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Step one, spankings. Properly administered, further steps are not needed.

Spankings by their parents, at a much earlier stage. It's too late for a spanking once the kid trashes a house, maybe rapes or kills someone. This is simply good parenting, which would be part of the program to solve the problem. See step one.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[TheRus 0]

Yes, the teens should have known better... provided that the parents had taught them responsibility and the consequences for their own actions... I did not mean that the teens were free from blame at all - they DO need to be held responsible, just that their parents are equally at fault for not doing what I believe to be their job.

Yeah, it's fine, we'll walk down the line. Leave our rain, a cold trade for warm sunshine
You my friend, I will defend... and if we change, well, I love you anyway

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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I did not mean that the teens were free from blame at all - they DO need to be held responsible, just that their parents are equally at fault for not doing what I believe to be their job.

How does it teach the teens responsibility to hold the parents responsible?

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[RevJim 0]

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Sadly, I have news for you. It's not just these kids. It's now an extrememly overwhelming majority, backed by a large number of liberal childless adults. You know the ones, the ones that know how to raise children better than their parents, which is why they will never have children.

It sounds like you're saying that there should be a spot on the poll to vote for "blame the liberals."

Actually, I am a liberal. Well, at least I consider myself one. The difference is I actually am raising my children. And guess what, I'm raising them as I was raised, and it's working.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[JDBoston 0]

THE PARENTS are to blame for the TEENS.

The TEENS are to blame for that particular incident.

Joe

[Push 0]

Hold both responsible.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[TheRus 0]

See my 2nd post, right above yours... I apparently failed to explain myself fully the 1st time.

Yeah, it's fine, we'll walk down the line. Leave our rain, a cold trade for warm sunshine
You my friend, I will defend... and if we change, well, I love you anyway

[PhillyKev 0]

I blame Canada