Recession.............................Economy.. Hmm.....??

[rhino 0]

I don't think lowering home interest rates are going to make that much of a difference.

I believe GAS prices are directly related to how much money is being pumped into the economy. People can't spend as much on toys when they are spending $1.80 on gas instead of $1.10 a gallon.

For a 20 gallon tank of gas that is an extra $14 a tank. Times that by a tank a week and you are looking at $800 a year in additional gas per vehicle!!!!!!!!

I don't care how much lower you make home interest rates, how much you lower taxes, or how many child credits you get the GAS prices are kicking the economies ass!!

Just something I have been thinking about.. It is a pitty we depend on it so..

Rhino

[billvon 3,120]

When gas prices go up people buy more efficient cars. It costs less to fill a 10 gallon gas tank once a month than a 20 gallon gas tank twice a month even if the price of gas doubles. It's like anything else - fuel oil, natural gas, electricity, beef vs chicken, real estate. The market adjusts as long as it is free to do so, and someone (car manufacturers) make money when people buy the more efficient cars.

Of course, if you're looking for a reason the economy's not recovering more quickly, the billion dollars a week we're spending in Iraq probably has something to do with it. And given that we're going to be there ten years, the half trillion we will spend there doesn't bode too well for the immediate future.

[lawrocket 3]

I'm gonna have to agree with billvon's economics here. As the price of something goes up, the market's efficiency in use of the product also increases. Hence, we don't burn fuel in the 8 mpg gas guzzlers of old. This is why we are not running out of gasoline, or tin, or copper, or any of a number of finite resources. We do more with less.

But, I think that the market should control that. And in this case, there is an external source of market pressure driving it. The market does adjust if it is free to do so. And here, the market is not free to drop the price of gas to $1.10/gallon until the taxes are lifted.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhino 0]

Well.. Actually... The sales of SUV's did not drop off as gas prices went up..

Everyone eants their SUV!!

Rhino

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

Get a better vehicle... because your logic on this stinks.

Spending money buying toys does the same for the economy as spending money on gas.

In fact, since we refine our own fuel (ie, american workers produce it), and manufacture most toys abroad, spending your money on gas is probably better for the economy.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Of course, if you're looking for a reason the economy's not recovering more quickly, the billion dollars a week we're spending in Iraq probably has something to do with it. And given that we're going to be there ten years, the half trillion we will spend there doesn't bode too well for the immediate future.

How about how much we spend on Israel? Why don't we fund those tax cuts by cutting out aid to Israel? That would actually make us much more popular in the Arab world and be more financially beneficial in the short term and long term.

[dterrick 0]

Hi Bill!

Wouldn't it be nice if people could 'just downsize' on a whim like I imagine you're imagining it?

I'm irked because it was only a few yers after G.W.I (GWB ) that Detroit started building the behemoths we now see on the roads known as 'sport utes' ... most containing one human and little cargo. Of course, kajillion dollarses were spent on making the engines more efficient so they could power larger and larger vehicles at higher and higher speeds... and Madison avenue 'convinced' people that these 'rolling boxcars' were necessary AND desirable.

Then, 'they' started making parking spaces smaller so those who have not already rolled over a Honda en route to the mall park alongside one and crease them when opening their yaught's doors 'be feel'.

Now we have 'expensive' oil and the owners of said 'utility' cehicles find they are "useful" at draining the wallet too. Ironic. Not seen in Asia... Not seen in Europe... (both with yet far more expensive fuel) once again people are the victims of their own free will.

Bill may I modify your comment to read " when gas prices go up, those who truly care will reconsider their need for large inefficient vehicles"? (the TRULY brilliant among us will drive a 45 MPG Honda to the dropzone and then blow a year's worth of fuel saving on jump tickets- much of which is ... ummm... shit!... fuel)

Dave

PS:

The optimist says the glass is half full; the pessimist says the glass is half empty; the engineer says the glass is twice as big as required; the ad exec is so good at his(/her) job that you are convinced to buy six of whatever's available anyway

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[billvon 3,120]

>How about how much we spend on Israel? Why don't we fund
>those tax cuts by cutting out aid to Israel?

I'd be for that. Give them a little warning and then ramp it down over five years to zero so they have time to deal with the change. We'll still be in Iraq at that point so we'll need the money.

[Michele 1]

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The optimist says the glass is half full; the pessimist says the glass is half empty; the engineer says the glass is twice as big as required; the ad exec is so good at his(/her) job that you are convinced to buy six of whatever's available anyway [Tongue] [Tongue] [Tongue]
___

And then there's me. Generally just happy as a clam to have a glass. That way, I can empty it, fill it, roll it around, copy it, chill it, whatever I want to do. But to have a glass - irrespective of half-full, half- empy, or otherwise - that is the key.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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>How about how much we spend on Israel? Why don't we fund
>those tax cuts by cutting out aid to Israel?

I'd be for that. Give them a little warning and then ramp it down over five years to zero so they have time to deal with the change. We'll still be in Iraq at that point so we'll need the money.

Why wait? Does it matter if their economy completely collapses in 5 years or if it happens tomorrow?

I want something form money. What do I get for sending my money to Isreal? Terrorist and international headaches. I want a refund!

[billvon 3,120]

>Why wait? Does it matter if their economy completely collapses in 5
>years or if it happens tomorrow?

Uh, yeah, it does. If their economy collapses, it has global repercussions. And if it gets so bad that Syria can just walk in and take over . . . do you really want Syria in possession of Israel's tactical nukes?

[Jib 0]

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I don't think lowering home interest rates are going to make that much of a difference.

It's not only home interest rates, but all interest rates. But with regard to homes, it has only served to increase housing prices... People don't look at the cost of the house, they look at what they can afford -- the amount it costs per month. The larger problem is that there's too much uncertainty for people to be willing to spend money. The market stung a lot of people in recent years and others think it's still overvalued.

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I believe GAS prices are directly related to how much money is being pumped into the economy. People can't spend as much on toys when they are spending $1.80 on gas instead of $1.10 a gallon.

Where's the Iraqi oil?? I don't think consumer energy prices are as important as costs to businesses and the effect on prices of other goods. Airlines and shipping companies either charge more or lose profits, likely both, which costs jobs or disposable income...

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I don't care how much lower you make home interest rates, how much you lower taxes, or how many child credits you get the GAS prices are kicking the economies ass!!

The idea behind the tax cut is to increase consumer disposable income and get them to spend it to spur the economy. But, like businesses with cheap capital available (low interest rates), I think people don't know what to do with the money they have (investment-wise) and don't want to spend it. Add in jobless numbers of late and people aren't likely to be spending.

I wonder where we'd be today without the technology bubble? Aside from redistributing wealth, would the economy be any different today without it?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[redtwiga 0]

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I want something form money. What do I get for sending my money to Isreal? Terrorist and international headaches. I want a refund!

Watch it. Are you aware how much help the US receives from the Israeli secret service? Are you educating yourself on how many American lives the Mossad has helped save from terrorists, not just since 9/11, but historically, too? Do you really think the Arab world will start to really like and support America if America stops supporting Israel?

[rmsmith 1]

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Uh, yeah, it does. If their economy collapses, it has global repercussions.

When was the last time you bought something in a store, any store, that had a "Made in Israel" label on it?

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

A.) collapsed Israeli economy would not be much worse than the current Syrian one. Israel would still have the advantage.

B.) Loss of our financial support would force Israel to actually make peace with its neighbors. I don't think we would have to worry about an invasion. In addition to this.

C.) The treat of an immediate and overwhelming US response to the invasion of Israel would prevent that scenario all by itself.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Watch it. Are you aware how much help the US receives from the Israeli secret service?

Yes I am more aware of this than most actually. But would we need that assistance if the whole Arab/Isreali problem was solved?

I don't think so.

[redtwiga 0]

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But would we need that assistance if the whole Arab/Isreali problem was solved?

Right, complicated problem, simple solution. You've figured it out. The conquest of the west has nothing to do with our music, clothing, culture, sexual freedom, entertainment or choice of religion. If we stop giving money to Israel, everything will work itself out.

[racer42 0]

We of course prop up Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan to about the same amount Israel receives. And whose companies do you think they are "encouraged" to spend that with??.
The issues regarding Israel and the Palestinians are at best only loosely related to the mess in Iraq.
And Syria ain't going anywhere. Not with 3 US carriers sitting off shore.

Oh yeah back and forth to the drop zone 2 times in a weekend costs me about $10. Thats almost 60 miles one way.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[rhino 0]

LOL

[billvon 3,120]

>When was the last time you bought something in a store, any store,
>that had a "Made in Israel" label on it?

We have an entire division of our company in Israel. They export a lot of high tech nowadays.

>Loss of our financial support would force Israel to actually make
> peace with its neighbors. I don't think we would have to worry about
> an invasion. In addition to this.

Did a collapsed economy force Iraq or North Korea to make peace with its neighbors?

>The treat of an immediate and overwhelming US response to the
> invasion of Israel would prevent that scenario all by itself.

I'd rather have the Israeli military fight for Israel than have Americans fight for Israel, personally. Unless you mean to promise that and then not actually defend them, which I think would sorta suck.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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We of course prop up Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan to about the same amount Israel receives.

Are you on crack? Where do you get your numbers?

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Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II. Estimates for total U.S. aid to Israel vary, however, because of the uncertainties and ambiguities described above. An Oct. 27, 2000 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report, using available and verifiable numbers, gives cumulative aid to Israel from 1949 through FY 2000 (which ended Sept. 30, 2000) at $81.38 billion. On the other hand, last year the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs estimated total aid to Israel through FY 2000 at $91.82 billion.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/010201/0101015.html

I can't find the graph I was looking at once on cnn or something like that, but it showed Total Aid to Isreal was more than double the next one on the list, Russia.

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The issues regarding Israel and the Palestinians are at best only loosely related to the mess in Iraq.

Ask any Arab. Its actually the main, polarizing reason for anti-us sentiment in the Middle-East

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[livendive 8]

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>How about how much we spend on Israel? Why don't we fund
>those tax cuts by cutting out aid to Israel?

I'd be for that. Give them a little warning and then ramp it down over five years to zero so they have time to deal with the change. We'll still be in Iraq at that point so we'll need the money.

Isn't a large reason we're starting to square off with N. Korea because they're pissed that we pulled our aid and want to use nukes as a hammer to get more?

Not that I think we should concede, I mean, we make a deal - we'll help you if you do x for us. If you don't do x, we won't give you anymore help. Seems fair enough to me.

Hell, maybe we should ramp down our aid worldwide until the recipients realize that handouts should be appreciated in deeds, not just words.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[storm1977 0]

I don't know how much it cost, but the US supplies 70% of the food for the World food supply program. Maybe we could use that food to feed our own people, and stop spending it on everyone else. As far as the more economical cars... well, that is an individual choice, that probably won't go over big in a country like the US. Rhino is right, when gas price went up, sales of SUV's didn't go down.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[billvon 3,120]

>Maybe we could use that food to feed our own people, and stop
>spending it on everyone else.

How many people in the US starve to death every year? I thought that was an incredibly small number.

>As far as the more economical cars... well, that is an individual
> choice, that probably won't go over big in a country like the US.
> Rhino is right, when gas price went up, sales of SUV's didn't go down.

"efficient" does not equal "small." The newer Toyota hybrid is a midsized car, and the Ford Escape SUV will soon be available in a hybrid high efficiency version. For people who think weight is everything, the combination of the gas engine and the battery pack should make the curb weight a lot higher, making them happy.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Isn't a large reason we're starting to square off with N. Korea because they're pissed that we pulled our aid and want to use nukes as a hammer to get more?

No, we cut the Aid to N Korea BECAUSE they admitted the nuclear program.