.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
mikkey 0
Recommended Posts
mikkey 0
Get your facts right before making statements like this. "The only sponsor of both WW that I know of, and then asked US for HELP " - are you getting your history lesson from Fox News?
BTW the second one become a WW when the Japs attacked Pearl.
I am getting annoyed - this is no longer an informed debate. Better leave discussion.
BTW the second one become a WW when the Japs attacked Pearl.
I am getting annoyed - this is no longer an informed debate. Better leave discussion.
---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
QuoteYou are talking BS here - I was saying the US is using the UN when it suits them - and that is not smart politics.
Actually that is smart politics. That way the president gets what he wants. Its just not fair to everyone else. But then president is not elected by everyone else, and he only has to face US for 1 more election.
juanesky 0
QuoteGet your facts right before making statements like this. "The only sponsor of both WW that I know of, and then asked US for HELP " - are you getting your history lesson from Fox News?
BTW the second one become a WW when the Japs attacked Pearl.
I am getting annoyed - this is no longer an informed debate. Better leave discussion.
This can never be a debate, for WWII started Sept 1, 1939.
Pearl Harbour was Dec 7 1941...
Maybe you were cryogenically challenged during those two years, perhaps? Just an idea out there.....
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon
There's no difference. Rocks vs fists, arrows vs rocks, muskets vs arrows, cannon vs muskets, tanks vs cannon, nukes vs tanks, microbes vs anyone, oil supply vs worldwide demand... it's all the same thing. If one group gains some kind of power over another that power is more likely to be used. The power leveraged can be military, social, economic (which BTW was a primary reason for the formation of the EU - ununified countries were weakened and could not compete well in the global economy). Have you noticed how EU strength has been followed by NATO diminishing on the world stage?
The writings of Clausewicz did not lead to any world war. Power imbalances coupled with ambition/nationalism led to them and ultimately ended them as well.
That's my point.
The scary thing at this time is that anyone with enough money and the right (wrong) connections might inflict WMDs in the form of illicit nukes or bio warfare on whomever they choose. Who has the power and benevolence to justly police the world right now to keep some kind of order?
We yanks seem to be stepping forward and taking action, though many others are (rightfully) questioning our motives. The EU seems content to continue discussions and less inclined to take action (letting Jugoslavia disintegrate in their own back yard for instance...) Do we wait until a WMD is unleashed before unifying against the threat of NK, or terrorists?
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
i hope not
stylinmike
(>O]-<
The writings of Clausewicz did not lead to any world war. Power imbalances coupled with ambition/nationalism led to them and ultimately ended them as well.
That's my point.
The scary thing at this time is that anyone with enough money and the right (wrong) connections might inflict WMDs in the form of illicit nukes or bio warfare on whomever they choose. Who has the power and benevolence to justly police the world right now to keep some kind of order?
We yanks seem to be stepping forward and taking action, though many others are (rightfully) questioning our motives. The EU seems content to continue discussions and less inclined to take action (letting Jugoslavia disintegrate in their own back yard for instance...) Do we wait until a WMD is unleashed before unifying against the threat of NK, or terrorists?
i hope not
stylinmike
(>O]-<
mikkey 0
Quote
And should we use the UN at all when it can't even work in an obvious situation?
Well if you bother study history, the UN has made a huge difference preventing a lot of Wars. Organise health programs, coordinating relief efforts, help find settlements, doing peace keeping misssions. Yes the system is flawed, it could be much better, but do not judge based on limited knowledge. If it had not been for the ongoing contacts in the UN between the US and the USSR we probably would have had a WW3 during the cold war.
QuoteWell unless everyone else steps up to the plate and applies the Necessary pressure NOW, millions of Koreans are going to die no matter what. Now I'll let you make the choice? 10 million now, or 3/4 of the populations of Both Koreas, and half of Japan when Kimmy has the time to build his nukes and load them on rockets?
Exactly what some people said during the cold war. Lucky they did not prevail. So the US has the right to kill 10 million people because there is a threat? Is this the same type of threat as these WMD's we can't find in Iraq?
QuoteReality bites. The UN is going to fail to assert itself by backing its own resolutions again and millions of people are going to die either way.
Yes reality bites, you can not go around nuking other nations pre-emptively. I don't think you really understand what you are arguing for.
Well I am out of this thread.
---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
juanesky 0
I guess we do not know what are we arguing about, yet, he tried to tell us that the Japs started WWII when they attacked the US.
That the Versailles treaty, crafted by the allies in 1918, were the basis of the next WWII. He does not refute or has nothing to say about the yugoslavia thingy in the EU sight, nor the search of power that the EU is trying to seek.
No, never mind, we will never be able to undersand such complex things...
That the Versailles treaty, crafted by the allies in 1918, were the basis of the next WWII. He does not refute or has nothing to say about the yugoslavia thingy in the EU sight, nor the search of power that the EU is trying to seek.
No, never mind, we will never be able to undersand such complex things...
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon
mikkey 0
Deep breath, last comment - this needs to be corrected:
This just shows that there are too many people having very "simple" black and white views and no bloody knowledge to back it up. (I am angry now).
The expressions WW1 and WW2 were not created at the time. Actually WW1 was called "The great War" until after WW2 (AFIK). WW1 became a world war AFTER the US joined in 1917. The war broke out in 1914. WW2 became a world war (it was a European War ) when the US got involved after Pearl. The war itself broke out in 1939. We call them World Wars but they did not start out as such. Comprende?
Now who is challenged?
It would be good if some people educate themselves a little more before suggesting to go around and kill a few million people!
I see myself as a "concerned" friend of the US, but if those views and lack of knowledge represent a majority of "Fox News" brain washed americans, well you guys don't need any friends.
God help us. "And that is all I have to say about that"
QuoteThis can never be a debate, for WWII started Sept 1, 1939.
Pearl Harbour was Dec 7 1941...
Maybe you were cryogenically challenged during those two years, perhaps? Just an idea out there.....
This just shows that there are too many people having very "simple" black and white views and no bloody knowledge to back it up. (I am angry now).
The expressions WW1 and WW2 were not created at the time. Actually WW1 was called "The great War" until after WW2 (AFIK). WW1 became a world war AFTER the US joined in 1917. The war broke out in 1914. WW2 became a world war (it was a European War ) when the US got involved after Pearl. The war itself broke out in 1939. We call them World Wars but they did not start out as such. Comprende?
Now who is challenged?
It would be good if some people educate themselves a little more before suggesting to go around and kill a few million people!
I see myself as a "concerned" friend of the US, but if those views and lack of knowledge represent a majority of "Fox News" brain washed americans, well you guys don't need any friends.
God help us. "And that is all I have to say about that"
---------------------------------------------------------
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
I agree. However it is not working in the present time. In recent history it has failed to stop the genocide in the Balkans, failed to disarm Iraq, Is currently failing to disarm N Korea, and failed in Somalia along with the US.QuoteWell if you bother study history, the UN has made a huge difference preventing a lot of Wars.
The UN was built in the past, for the threats of the past. Unfortunately one of the Organizations faults is its inability to reorganize to meet the needs of the future.
All I am debating is its peacekeeping ability. The humanitarian roll is separate, and they are still not perfect but do quite well there.
Are you talking about the WMD's that even the UN could not account for? If I hide something and you cannot find it, does that mean it does not exist? The UN inspectors proved they existed at one time. Saddam was responsible for proving they were destroyed. He failed to do that to the satisfaction of the UN. Two years is plenty of time to destroy and document. He gave the UN the run-around for more than 10 years.QuoteIs this the same type of threat as these WMD's we can't find in Iraq?
I am not advocating using nukes. I believe a large conventional force will be sufficient. A huge unsophisticated army is no match for lots of cluster bombs and technology.QuoteYes reality bites, you can not go around nuking other nations pre-emptively.
The people of France are very lucky they are not speaking German right now because they failed twice to recognize a danger in Germany and take pre-emptive action. We failed Europe both times because we sat back and let it happen.
We learned our lesson. Apparently not everyone did.
Actually I do, but I don't know that you understand why I am arguing. I am seeking knowledge... looking for others to counter my arguments and enlighten me.QuoteI don't think you really understand what you are arguing for.
That's your loss. Giving up in frustration because you don't understand someone is not the way you learn to understand the feelings behind the arguments.QuoteWell I am out of this thread.
w4p2 0
Gentleman, lets go to core of the matters....
I think you are beating around the Bush,
I think you are beating around the Bush,
Well the only problem is... We don't have anyone any better to replace him.
Damn 22nd amendment!
Damn 22nd amendment!
w4p2 0
Well I think that it is the real issue.
Every US president since WWII prior to him has been able defuse the major crises in making. He seems to be making the crises.
It is amazing to observe it. He has an anti Midas touch... everything he sticks his finger into turns to shit.
It is even more amazing if you think the administration in general. They are professional and highly established people... I feel sorry in seeing their records being tarnished by belonging to this administration.
Diplomacy should prevail. In quiet... not in international media reporting this or that leader being called evil.
If diplomacy fails, and the situation calls, it is time for decisive swift military action rather making oneself a laughingstock of the world by arranging these Uzbekistan/ Camerun you name what coalitions.
Was there an outcry When Israel took out the Iraqi reactors in the 80s. Not that I remember. It was understood as survival.
With his unbalanced ( to put it kindly) statements and actions this gentleman has put US foreign policy into all time credibility low. As far as I am concerned the only way out before major crisis is a change of leadership.
Every US president since WWII prior to him has been able defuse the major crises in making. He seems to be making the crises.
It is amazing to observe it. He has an anti Midas touch... everything he sticks his finger into turns to shit.
It is even more amazing if you think the administration in general. They are professional and highly established people... I feel sorry in seeing their records being tarnished by belonging to this administration.
Diplomacy should prevail. In quiet... not in international media reporting this or that leader being called evil.
If diplomacy fails, and the situation calls, it is time for decisive swift military action rather making oneself a laughingstock of the world by arranging these Uzbekistan/ Camerun you name what coalitions.
Was there an outcry When Israel took out the Iraqi reactors in the 80s. Not that I remember. It was understood as survival.
With his unbalanced ( to put it kindly) statements and actions this gentleman has put US foreign policy into all time credibility low. As far as I am concerned the only way out before major crisis is a change of leadership.
QuoteEvery US president since WWII prior to him has been able defuse the major crises in making. He seems to be making the crises
I guess you're choosing to leave out the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Panama, Gruaneda, the Iran conflict, the Cold War, the Berlin Crises, Bosnia, Somolia...damn, the list could go on for some time...
I love liberals, they have selective reasoning and selective memories.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
w4p2 0
Gruanada, Panama, Somalia, Bosnia or Iran hardly qualify as major crises.
Korea could have been, but was defuced by swift show of force.
Vietnam.... unfortunate... but hardly on world scale
But Cold War, it was kept in bay by leadership... a task this current excuse for your president could hardly have handled.
Korea could have been, but was defuced by swift show of force.
Vietnam.... unfortunate... but hardly on world scale
But Cold War, it was kept in bay by leadership... a task this current excuse for your president could hardly have handled.
"You should ad that the old EU was the only sponsor of both WW that I know of,"
You want to explain that one to me?
Your saying that the European Union was in some way responsible for one, or both of the World Wars?
I really don't think so.
You want to explain that one to me?
Your saying that the European Union was in some way responsible for one, or both of the World Wars?
I really don't think so.
--------------------
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
lazyfrog 0
QuoteGood thing we went into Iraq to stop their nuclear program; we're safe from nuclear terrorism now! I'm glad we directed our energies in the right direction.
**********************
good thing ???
good thing that everyday US families have children getting killed ???
good thing that terror threat is greater everyday
good thing to have a government which lies in order to get control on petrol supplies ???
I don't agree with you...
sorry----------
Fumer tue, péter pue
-------------
ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579
Hey Lazyfrog, wake up and smell the sarcasm....
Billvon has been pretty outspoken against the action in Iraq, he provides me with some faith in the USA....
Billvon has been pretty outspoken against the action in Iraq, he provides me with some faith in the USA....
--------------------
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
Tonto 1
Let's see.
You have unfinished business in Afghanistan.
You have unfinished business in Iraq
Likewise, Liberia, N&S Korea, Libya, Iran, Israel, Somalia, etc. etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Were there not still MIA's in Vietnam?
Why don't they want them back?
t
You have unfinished business in Afghanistan.
You have unfinished business in Iraq
Likewise, Liberia, N&S Korea, Libya, Iran, Israel, Somalia, etc. etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Were there not still MIA's in Vietnam?
Why don't they want them back?
t
It's the year of the Pig.
Tonto 1
"Well, if you don't have a better solution, and are not pretending to be part of one, you should shut up and step aside."
How about listening to world opinion in the world you live in - and following some basic human rights?
As for the colonials terrible abuse of Africans, they're still here - unlike the Native Americans.
Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Just a thought.
t
How about listening to world opinion in the world you live in - and following some basic human rights?
As for the colonials terrible abuse of Africans, they're still here - unlike the Native Americans.
Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Just a thought.
t
It's the year of the Pig.
Tonto 1
"This can never be a debate, for WWII started Sept 1, 1939."
Actually, it can be debated.
Russia and Germany's attack on Poland started on 01 Sept 1939.
WW2 started when Britain declared war on Germany on 03 September 1939.
t
Actually, it can be debated.
Russia and Germany's attack on Poland started on 01 Sept 1939.
WW2 started when Britain declared war on Germany on 03 September 1939.
t
It's the year of the Pig.
QuoteLet's see.
You have unfinished business in Afghanistan.
You have unfinished business in Iraq
Likewise, Liberia, N&S Korea, Libya, Iran, Israel, Somalia, etc. etc.
Its called multi-tasking. We just happened to be very good at it in this country. That's why we're so productive.QuoteWere there not still MIA's in Vietnam?
Why don't they want them back?
MIA's in Vietnam are men that died for their country, with no proof. So, unless you are Jesus, I am sure they are not coming back.
Well I am finished discussing with you (also too busy) - "just nuke them" yeah and and please include Syria, Iran, Lybia etc. etc. etc - heck nuke the whole world. Kill a few million. Just make sure the winds are right that none of the fall-out comes across the US. Might get messy. And do not turn on the TV so you have to see the aftermath. If this had been the policy of the US (pre-emptive nuke strikes) during the cold war, we all be dead now.
No wonder we are a few worried about you yanks...
When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites