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FliegendeWolf

Another Soon-to-be-locked thread

By FliegendeWolf, in The Bonfire

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jkm2500    0

jkm2500
Dear DZ.comers,

What a sensitive subject we have started in on, and so early in the morning. After careful consideration and thought I decided to respond to this thread hoping that maybe there was a point of view that every one could agree on. I want to put a disclaimer on this because, god forbid I offend anyone. I have been living in Iraq for the last 3 months, so I am a little behind on current affairs. Any inaccuracies in information, please bring to my attention so that I can correct them. I hope it’s a good read.
First off, I really don't care whether or not a gay couple wants to be married or not. It is their God given right to live as they want to live. Depending on your beliefs as far as religion goes, everybody has the god given right to choose who they want to spend this lifetime with. In my own beliefs, we are here on earth to test our own free will. Find out whether we make the right or wrong decisions through out life, then on to judgment day. Not declaring homosexuality right or wrong, just that it is an option.
If we would like to include religion in the topic, and get even farther from the point, we can say that God only wants heterosexual marriages. I am sure that God also wants us to go to church every Sunday. We can list off the 10 commandments again, or for any religion list the boundaries that God has put on us for our time here on earth. Am I going to hell because I didn’t make it to church every Sunday through out my life? I have a response to that as well, why would God (of your choosing) send us to earth to fail miserably? But the whole discussion of religion can be saved for another day, because it has no true bearing on the topic, it is merely a hook for GW to hang his hat on.
Now, take a look at the political aspect of legalizing gay marriages....where does it stop? or for that matter where does it start? Every law that we pass in the United States affects people differently. But the whole basis of starting this wonderful country so many years ago was to get away from different types of persecution. Thus the whole line of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Now as adult individuals, do we really need laws saying who we can and can’t marry? For that matter, do we need laws telling us how fast we can drive? Or how we conduct a business?
The whole reason for a law is to what? To place boundaries so that everyone can live happily here in the good old USA. A law is not to punish a certain person or group. I can’t have a party at my house until 4 o’clock in the morning without offending the neighbors, thus the need for noise abatement laws. And so on, and so forth.
We have allowed the US to be governed by the minority. Therefore, if someone gets into a car wreck and kills somebody, we have to pass a law to stop people from speeding. It happens everyday, i.e.; Brady Bill, banning plural marriages (1840's), etc. We are supposed to be governed by a majority. That means if 51% of the populace says that we can’t wear blue than really shouldn’t wear blue. That doesn’t mean that we can’t have our feelings hurt, or voice our opinions. It just means that we shouldn’t wear blue. (That was a far out example not a basis of decision)
Another point that needs to be made is that one of the ideals of our founding fathers was tolerance. We need to tolerate our neighbor and our neighbor’s lives. If not then we are simply asking for more laws to be passed. If we look in the very recent past, anti-smoking campaigns have been on the front page of the news. The entire city of New York banned smoking. Now, was that a bigoted decision? In my mind it was. The business owners had every right to allow, or disallow smoking in their establishments. Because of a lack of tolerance, the smoking portion of the population now has to go inside their homes and draw the curtains in order to partake of their lifestyle. In my own opinion (however skewed it is) those people who wanted to ban smoking had the decision to tolerate it, yet they didn’t. Should we pass a law that says fat people can’t eat at restaurants because it offends me? Or should I just tolerate it?
Now let’s look at the history of the anti-gay marriage laws, were they put on the books yesterday, or even in the last year? They have been around or decades, probably written by a bunch of narrow minded homo-phobic men. So now that we are in the 21st century, and things are seen a little differently should we change the laws? Probably not a bad idea. Allow a civil union and get on with life. The last time that I checked, the constitution doesn’t have a disclaimer at the bottom saying: for heterosexual people only. I am pretty sure that it was written for everyone, black, white, gay, straight.
However, what we do is open Pandora’s Box for more future legislation as things become more socially accepted. Do we legalize drugs so we can make the potheads happy? Do we legalize plural marriage so that the Mormon fundamentalists are happy? Do we legalize automatic firearms to make the militias happy? Do we abolish speed limit laws so that the street racers are happy? Like I said earlier where does it end?
The topic of discussion needs to be more is this good for the general public of the USA, not is this bad for gays. We need to look for what the majority wants, and qualify it with what is good for the public, and then reflect on the very basis of this great country. Ask yourself should there be gay marriages? I am all for the rights given to us by the constitution, I fight for them everyday.
So I guess the bottom line after all the ranting and raving is: Is this a good decision? Is it constitutional? Will it be tolerated? Is it good for the general public of the United States?
The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise.

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JDBoston    0

JDBoston
For me, permissiveness clearly ends when the public good or safety is compromised - i.e. abolishing speed limits, selling automatic weapons to everyone, etc. They banned smoking in bars & restaurants because it was a very real OSHA/public health issue, not just a 'lack of tolerance.' Smoke is bad for people. If you are working in a place where you are forced to be in a cloud of smoke all the time, it is bad for your health. Hence the ban. I have plenty of friends that smoke but my attitude is hey, tough shit. I absolutely love the ban.

Back to the issue of this thread, if two gay people want to spend the rest of their life with each other, then in my mind they have every right to do so and should get the same financial & other benefits as a couple of straight people. Or if the government wants to create a different kind of 'union' for gay people and call it something besides marriage, but give it the same tax benefits etc., whatever. That's fine too.

On the other side of the argument, I think all the pious references to God's idea of marriage are a bunch of BS. It's a convenient way for people to try and excuse their bigotry. If they actually lived all aspects of their life by the letter of the Bible, as I think someone else illustrated in one of these threads, it would not be quite what they think. So basically they're hypocrites. IMHO of course.

Joe

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skydiverbrian    0

skydiverbrian
Quote

he probably has one of them dumb hitler mustashes



In my fantasy, it's just neatly trimmed. And he's too young to have chest hair. And he's inexperienced. And he wants to learn everything. And he wants me to teach him! ;)

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

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freeflir29    0

freeflir29
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In my fantasy, it's just neatly trimmed. And he's too young to have chest hair. And he's inexperienced. And he wants to learn everything. And he wants me to teach him!





I have that same damn fantasy with a chick.......only problem is.....every chick over 12 is now broken in already....:D

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BlueEyedMonster    0

BlueEyedMonster
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In my fantasy, it's just neatly trimmed. And he's too young to have chest hair. And he's inexperienced. And he wants to learn everything. And he wants me to teach him! ;)



teach him... ahhhh I want one that knows what he's doing. But I just had my date with my cute mechanic boy. :D I beat him at darts (cause he didn't have his with) I think he's cuter than the guy in the red shorts. So you can have red shorts guy. He's all yours.

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