Fair and Balanced

[Amazon 7]

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I'm so glad we are long past the "End of major fighting". What a relief. I'm sure our esteemed president will make sure it marks the end of major casualties as well.

Maybe as a former Govenor of the Great State of Texas.. he can call on the Texas Rangers and Chuck Norris to go over and clean up the mess now that is evolving into a policing situation. Then it can be reported in a fair and balanced leaning on Fox News

Amazon

[juanesky 0]

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You Yanks are so funny....

(irony on) good old J. Goebbels would be proud of them (irony off).

Again with all the rehtoric of Europeans being the world saviours...

What is the issue about this, Spain, Britain and other countries supported these very actions, and yet you feel that vindication is needed? Well, as an advice, you should be more concerned that France should be occupied in buying A/C units for the people not to die in their own homeland....and as for the rest....if you think for a moment that ignoring Saddam after 12 years of doing whatever he pleased with th UN nation was OK, then more reasons we have.

If you can tell me this Saddam adhered to the resolutions (already stating that force will be used), then I will concede you are right, if not, it will be obvious that you are just joining the French party to hate the US...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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[mikkey 0]

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Mikkey, some of us folks that live in the US are pretty apalled at our country's recent actions. All we can ask of foriegners is not to hold it against all of us.

The issue is not so much the action itself (invading Iraq) - I am actually supporting it (Saddam was one of the worst dictators since Hitler & Stalin) - I have a problem with "How". The lack of working with the international community is disgusting, the reasons stated for invading were not honest, the way the UN was undermined is stupid in the long term, the way the best "allies" of the US were "pushed" into it will be damaging for their governments etc and the current problems are a result of this.

Just a couple of thought in regard to some of the posts in this thread:

1) Fox is the most popular news channel. I think the reason is NOT its "politics" it is the way it has re-defined news as an entertainment product. The focus is on car chases, crimes, celebrities etc. - this has made the "news" easy to digest and entertaining. The smart trick (and that is totally on purpose) is to slide the ideology into this style - and it works. That does not make it "balanced" and does not make it "good" news. It is actually bad journalism, because complex issues are presented in a simplified way. 99% of issues are not black and white, it is always some shade of gray. Murdoch is smart but he is also dangerous for journalism because he is "using" it for an agenda, more then I ever saw it most other news organisations - it sometimes reminds me of the way the former communist countries did it.

2) "Middle of the road" - some posters said that Fox is "middle of the road" or just "slight" to the right. Well, this is a bogus argument. I am politically a conservative where I live and would be a conservative in Europe, but in the US I would be a Democrat and a liberal. So it all depends. The only thing I can conclude from reading "political" posts in Talk Back is that Americans in average are far more to the "right" then people in other western democracies. Maybe it is a difference in culture or maybe a result of a more "insular" mentality.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Remster 30]

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All we can ask of foriegners is not to hold it against all of us.

Nope... We all painting you in the same big brush (is it is bush)

Remster

[jfields 0]

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I have a problem with "How".

Those are the actions I was referring to, for most of the reasons you mentioned. In many ways we have gone from being a playground leader to a playground bully. The actions (smacking the guy that really needs it) can be the same, but the difference is in the method. This time, we didn't consult the other folks on the playground. While they may agree that the particular person needed to get put in their place, they are frightened by our reckless unilateral action, wondering if we are resposible enough to only act against those that really deserve it.

[mikkey 0]

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Again with all the rehtoric of Europeans being the world saviours...

I don't think Europeans think that - I think Fox News told you they do

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Well, as an advice, you should be more concerned that France should be occupied in buying A/C units for the people not to die in their own homeland....

Tsss, tsss that is a stupid argument (you heard this one on Fox - right ? ). Same as saying you guys should be more concerned about those people living (and dying) on the streets in the US instead of using money invading other countries.....

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If you can tell me this Saddam adhered to the resolutions (already stating that force will be used), then I will concede you are right, if not, it will be obvious that you are just joining the French party to hate the US...

Hey, a lot of people supported getting rid of Saddam - it was the bullshit about him being involved in 9/11 and the "immediate danger" that we have a problem with. And it is double standards slamming the "Krauts" and the "Frogs" for the business connections with Iraq when one of the reasons for the way this was done is to get control over the Oil and the reconstruction money - not even the allies who sent troops can get a look into those contracts - ask the Australians. And BTW I am sure there are more people in the US "hating" the French then the other way around - courtesy of the "fair and balanced way" Fox News has reported about the french.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[juanesky 0]

I got some news for you Mikkey...

#1 I don't get the news from Fox.

#2 I am not a US citizens yet, but do believe that they are under attack and this has affected everybody worldwide.

#3 The french DO hate Americans, well, pretty much everyone, just talk to any American who has visited France, and the way they acted with them, it is no fake, I have seen it with my own eyes.

#4 Yes the French should look into buying A/C units, I did not get this from Fox either, I speak 4 languages fluently, and get a variety of information coming from all types of sources, I prefer the ones without any comments, and try to filter information, I'm just the facts type of guy, and if this facts and pardon me, can't forget the twin towers yet, and this fact is telling us that there are people accross the world trying to damage anyone, civilians kids, etc, therefore I see appropiate to bomb the hell out of them.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Remster 30]

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The french DO hate Americans

Funny... last time I checked, I'm french, and I dont hate americans...

Sebazz, how about you? You have both citizenship, do you hate yourself?

Grow up Juan. Yes, I've seen some Parisians be rude to americans, but you know what, Parisians are rude to everyone, Provincial compatriots included. You also have to conceade that some americain tourists do bring it on to themselves by their attitude.
EDIT: I've seen it with my own eyes too, must be a undisputable fact then..

If you want to keep on beliving that, be my guest. Just shows your prejudice.

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Yes the French should look into buying A/C units

They also should close down Euro Disney, but WTF does this have to do with this discussion?

Remster

[juanesky 0]

It has to do a lot, since Mikkey insists that I only get news from Fox, and by the way, hope you are not referring that you are French Canadian, for that will be not French citizens ship...just checking, and about being totally biased, I am not, I am not referring to all France in regards of hating American, the consensus is that they do not like Americans.

I just like being liberal or Cosrvative, absolute of averything or anything is impossible.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Remster 30]

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hope you are not referring that you are French Canadian, for that will be not French citizens ship.

You hope? Is it a fate even worse then being French? lmao

PS: I'm not a French Canadian, I'm a Québéquois. That happens to come along with a Canadian passport and citizenship. I also managed to swindle myself a French passport, so that also makes me French.

Remster

[mikkey 0]

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#1 I don't get the news from Fox.

Good for you. I actually watch Fox (one of many news services I follow) that is why I was commenting on them.

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#2 I am not a US citizens yet, but do believe that they are under attack and this has affected everybody worldwide.

I actually agree, but that does not mean I think the US has handled things very well post Afghanistan.

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#3 The french DO hate Americans, well, pretty much everyone, just talk to any American who has visited France, and the way they acted with them, it is no fake, I have seen it with my own eyes.

I agree with Remster - they are rude but they do not hate. It is just the way they are.

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#4 Yes the French should look into buying A/C units, I did not get this from Fox either, I speak 4 languages fluently

Well I speak 5 and I lived in 4 countries on 2 continents. So your point is? And what have A/C units to do with this discussion? I lived in Scandinavia for many years, nobody has air conditioning (it does normally not get very hot). Now I live in Australia where everybody has a A/C unit installed. So Australians are much smarter and better then Northern Europeans??? You lost me on this one...

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and pardon me, can't forget the twin towers yet, and this fact is telling us that there are people accross the world trying to damage anyone, civilians kids, etc, therefore I see appropiate to bomb the hell out of them.

Well yes there are people doing this and we should try to fight them. But the problem is Iraq was not involved in 9/11.... So your point is?

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Remster 30]

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I am not, I am not referring to all France in regards of hating American, the consensus is that they do not like Americans.

Sorry, this statement of yours had me confused then:

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#3 The french DO hate Americans

Remster

[juanesky 0]

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#3 The french DO hate Americans, well, pretty much everyone, just talk to any American who has visited France, and the way they acted with them, it is no fake, I have seen it with my own eyes.

I agree with Remster - they are rude but they do not hate. It is just the way they are.

Well they are (at least politically) anti-american. If you are trying to put this on a 100% core value that applies to all French then it would be a gross mistake.

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#4 Yes the French should look into buying A/C units, I did not get this from Fox either, I speak 4 languages fluently

Well I speak 5 and I lived in 4 countries on 2 continents. So your point is? And what have A/C units to do with this discussion? I lived in Scandinavia for many years, nobody has air conditioning (it does normally not get very hot). Now I live in Australia where everybody has a A/C unit installed. So Australians are much smarter and better then Northern Europeans??? You lost me on this one...

Well, you are not the only one that has lived in 4 or more countries, but you were the one implying that the Americans should look into they own dead before worrying of France's. THis is exactly the American stance, they did get a lot of people murdered in their soil and now are basically after them.[\blue]

And in regards to Remster's comment, I think you both are Biased against Americans.

If you are tyring to forsee that the issues at hand were going to be easy, they were not. So you 2 should be the ones that need to grow up, and offer a feasible solution. One that could bring this all to a screeching halt.

That is the problem with the pro-liberal point of view...most think they are intellectually correct all the time.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Remster 30]

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And in regards to Remster's comment, I think you both are Biased against Americans.

Got me...... I hate you all.

Pleaaaseee... (oh oh oh.. I was told i should use this instead):
Puhhh leeeeze

I am very much biased against the present American administration.
But Americans? I assume that every one is different. Some Americans are knit wits (heck, one managed to get elected President !) some are decent open minded conservatives, some are assholish liberals and some a nice people. Guess what: thats pretty much waht I think of French people too.

But since we disagree with you, we must be biased.[rolls eyes]

And now that the US admin has managed to nicely fuck up over in Iraq, its up to the rest of the worl to find a slution? nice....

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One that could bring this all to a screeching halt.

If you expect any of the worlds issues to come to a screetching halt (world hunger, international terrorism, middle east peace, low fat chips) you are a bit dissalusioned I think.

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

"Puhh" and so on and so forth

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[juanesky 0]

done...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[mikkey 0]

I should probably not respond to your post...

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but you were the one implying that the Americans should look into they own dead before worrying of France's

Nope, you were saying the French should look after their own first and brought in this stupid A/C issue. Check your post.

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THis is exactly the American stance, they did get a lot of people murdered in their soil and now are basically after them.

I do not understand what you are talking about. Are you talking about 9/11? If yes, has anybody said the US should not go after Osama and Co.?

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And in regards to Remster's comment, I think you both are Biased against Americans.

Nope, we are not. I do not agree with the Bush administrations way of handling foreign policies. I do not like Fox News. But I like lot of other things about the US and have friends and family in the US. Many Americans share the views expressed by myself - So all those Americans are biased against Americans?

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If you are tyring to forsee that the issues at hand were going to be easy, they were not. So you 2 should be the ones that need to grow up, and offer a feasible solution. One that could bring this all to a screeching halt.
That is the problem with the pro-liberal point of view...most think they are intellectually correct all the time.

You make no sense to me. I suggest you have a
strong coffee.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[SkydiverRick 0]

This time, we didn't consult the other folks on the playground. While they may agree that the particular person needed to get put in their place, they are frightened by our reckless unilateral action, wondering if we are resposible enough to only act against those that really deserve it.

[juanesky 0]

Of course you should think about things before saying them. If youare not offering any solution don't be part of the problem.

SO if you do not know what The twin towers were, they were also know as the world trade center. You are doing a superb job shortening and paraphrasing my sentences so they fit your point of views. Grow up.

Again the superiority mentality thing, kicked in once more.....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I'm just the facts type of guy, and if this facts and pardon me, can't forget the twin towers yet, and this fact is telling us that there are people accross the world trying to damage anyone, civilians kids, etc, therefore I see appropiate to bomb the hell out of them.

Hey Mr. Fact guy, please tell me, factually, what Iraq has to do with September 11th?

While you are at it, please factually tell me where the WMDs in Iraq are. Remember those WMDs the clear and present danger against the US. The main reason you all supported this war. Yesterday marked 117 days since the end of what Bush called Major Combat. So far nothing has been found, nothing, nada, zilch.

Ohh, I forget, FOX NEWS is reporting that the war was all about getting rid of that evil dictator. And, since they are fair and balanced, that must be the truth. Anvil, you surprise me, I thought you were smarter than your statements regarding FOX. They are not leaning as far right as the otehr news organizations are leaning left, hence they are fair and balanced. You have got to be kidding me.

Justin, I really hate to disagree with you, specially since you are my fellow world record holder . Yes you get more news than one party line. This is true, you get the news on two party lines. There really is more to things than just the thoughts of two parties. There really are other options than just Republican or Democrat.

[jfields 0]

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The US did consult with the UN.

If consulting is basically dictating actions and then asking them if they want in on our deal, then I suppose we did. We hardly gave it a fair shot.

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At that time the US put together a sizable coalition

Sizeable? How did the non-US elements compare in size to the US ones? How broad of a coalition was it?

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freed the Iraqi people

Depends on how you look at it. They went from being subjects of a repressive Iraqi dictatorship to being subjects of a less opressive foriegn power. And along the way, we demolished the infrastructure of their country. We could have handled it a lot better. We can't claim ignorance either, because lots of people discussed the folly of the plan, from past experiences with similar ones.

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Nothing to apologize for.

I disagree, but we are both entitled to our opinions.

[wmw999 2,584]

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SO if you do not know what The twin towers were, they were also know as the world trade center.

Somehow I think that his statement about its being 9/11 implies that he's aware the WTC blew up. However, one group's having done something awful doesn't make it OK for us to go kick the shit out anyone we feel like.

No matter what spin people put on it, there's no evidence that Saddam Hussein helped OBL. SH is an asshole, a completely world-class asshole. No doubt whatsoever. But he hated OBL, and OBL looked down on him, almost as much as they hated the US.

Out reasoning for going after SH was WMD. We haven't found any. We haven't found any. As a country, we've tried to say that it doesn't matter because he was a bad man. If that were to go to an American court (well, before the Patriot act at least), it wouldn't even make it to trial before getting thrown out.

"The dog bit me, so I kicked the cat -- but he's a mean cat so it's OK." That's bullshit.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The US did consult with the UN. The UN didn't have the courage to back up their own resolutions. At that time the US put together a sizable coalition and freed the Iraqi people. Nothing to apologize for

Yep, the US wanted to speed things up because they were in direct danger due to all those massive amounts of Weapons of MAss Destruciton that were so readily available in Iraq. Well that compabined with the nuclear material Iraq was buying in Africa.

SSince, those "facts" pposed a real danger to the US, Bush felt he had to invade immediately and could not wait for the UN to finish looking for those WMDs. [sarcasme] the UN inspectors were obviously idiots, I mean anybody could find those chemicals, the US intelligence community knew exactly where they were.[/sarcasme]

So, if the US would have let the UN do its job, close to 300 americans would still be alive. The US would not be asking the rest of the world for help after fucking it up themselves. The US intelligence community would not have looked like idiots. More effort could have been spent on the actual War on Terrorism and actual terrorist could have been found and captured. Maybe even Osama Bin Laden, remember him? Well, they still haven't captured him. And Iraq would not have turned into the massive terrorist hotbed that it is now. You thought terrorist had free reign in Iraq before, I think the US just made it worse.......

[jfields 0]

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There really is more to things than just the thoughts of two parties. There really are other options than just Republican or Democrat.

I totally agree. We have just been discussing the left/right liberal/conservative ends of the spectrum in this thread. There are certainly others. It is like focusing on a dimension before moving on to others. Besides, I can only type so much.

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[PhillyKev 0]

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I do not like Fox News. But I like lot of other things about the US and have friends and family in the US. Many Americans share the views expressed by myself - So all those Americans are biased against Americans?

According to a lot of people, yes....we Americans who don't agree with the way the administration is handling these things are anti-American and aiding AlQueda by our disagreement with foreign policy.

It's not that some Americans hate foreigners. It's that some Americans hate anyone that disagrees with them. The same could probably be said about any nationality.