Should coaches be able to sign the A license card?

[riddler 0]

Currently, a USPA coach may only train a student for the A license, ISP, freefall portions of category E through H, under the supervision of a USPA instructor or I/E (poll option 3). This amounts to 4 out of the nearly 150 line signatures required on the ISP card. All other signatures and training, including ALL ground training must be conducted by an instructor or instructor/evaluator.

The non-ISP card allows for nothing to be trained or signed by a coach. Everything must be done by an instructor or instructor/evaluator. In my experience, most students use this version of the A license (non-ISP). The rationale is that it's less expensive, requires fewer jumps and signatures and less time. It also means that as a coach I do not participate in training for students using this card.

As a coach, I feel that I have the ability to train students on the ground and observe them in the air and determine if they can perform the skills required for the A license - both ISP and the original A license. I also feel that my doing so alleviates the workload for instructors so that they may focus on AFF, static line and tandem instruction. Since I feel this way, I think I should be able to ground train students and sign off on most of the A license card - however, I feel it's a good idea to let an instructor do the proficiency jump (SIM, Sec. 3-2.A.1.c) and administer the quizzes.

Should coaches have more authority than they do now? Should they have the same? Less?

[Blahr 0]

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Currently, a USPA coach may only train a student for the A license, ISP, freefall portions of category E through H, under the supervision of a USPA instructor or I/E (poll option 3). This amounts to 4 out of the nearly 150 line signatures required on the ISP card. All other signatures and training, including ALL ground training must be conducted by an instructor or instructor/evaluator.

Have things changed THAT much? I got my "A" about 10 years ago and I dont recall having to get hundreds of signatures. I dont even know what half of the stuff you just mentioned means.

[riddler 0]

There are two routes to an A license.

1. The standard A license. One yellow card, front and back, with about 45 lines to sign. This is the card I used two years ago and the majority of it was signed off by a USPA coach.

2. ISP, which is three sheets of signatures, front and back, with just under 150 signatures required. Categories A-H, each with oral or written quizzes, and much more focus on important items like canopy control and spotting. Obviously, it's a more time consuming and expensive route. I feel that it's better training, but in my experience, not as popular with students due to the time and expense.

[Luna 0]

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but in my experience, not as popular with students due to the time and expense.

First of all, as someone who recently completed the ISP through to license, I personally believe that there is nothing more important than safety. If the ISP includes more training that will ultimately result in a safer skydiver (and I believe that it does), who cares how much time or money it takes?? That said, I didn't have any choice in the matter, as my DZ utilizes only the ISP (as all should be by now), including the 4-page card.

As to the coaches role in the training...well, to become a coach you have to teach part of the first jump course. So, I really don't see a problem with having a coach do ground school for each jump. The student would still need to do a quick brief with the instructor, but it would certainly save the instructor a lot of time!

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[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I can't answer this because I don't know how much it takes to become a coach versus to become an instructor . But, I am working on getting my A license using the 2-sided card, and I think it is quite enough stuff to have signed off. I know this isn't a debate about which card is better (or is it?), but I just thought i'd mention that in reply to Luna. I think that it definitely weeds out the weak, and I see no reason to put it down thinking it will breed of unsafe divers.
For anyone who hasn't seen the new card, here iit is:
http://www.uspa.org/publications/form.pdf/ALicProfCard10-02.pdf

Angela.

[riddler 0]

I agree - I believe the ISP is better, and it is required by some DZs, but far from all. Under the current ISP, a coach is only allowed to do Category E-H jumps with a student, and no ground training. All of the remaining training - more than 95% for ISP, and 100% of it for the "old" system, must currently be done by an instructor (AFF/Tandem/Static Line), and not by a coach.

So my question is, if the coach rating comes with little or no ability to help students, then what is the point? The only value it has as an official rating is as a precursor to other instructional ratings. It seems a needless step prior to becoming an instructor - a waste of time and money. There are obviously good coaches out there that help advanced jumpers greatly, but is a student willing to pay a slot for a coach that can't even sign off their A card? I don't think so.

This is what I do as a coach currently. I work with students to help them improve the skills and understanding that are not in AFF. AFF is an accelerated program that by necessity of time, excludes many canopy skills, spotting, exit separation, things like weight shifting in the aircraft. Additionally, I work with them to improve freefall skills - things that take more than 7 AFF levels to learn, and give them a target. In other words, I do ground training and flight training. Things the current system does not authorize me to do.

[Luna 0]

On a side note, in the newest Parachutist, it lists a few new functions for coaches. First, they will be able to do recurrency training and jumps for licensed jumpers. Also, if they have extensive freeflying experience, they can work on freeflying with non-licensed students. Finally, they have clarified that "a USPA instructional rating holder (USPA Coach or higher) must accompany the student on group freefall jumps but may choose additional jumpers to join them." So I guess they are working on expanding the role of the coach, but it will probably just take time.

As for the cards, I'm not trying to debate the 2-sided-card vs. the 4-sided-card, but ISP vs. old AFF, which to my understanding was basically 7 levels and you are on your own. ISP takes you all the way to your license without leaving you hanging on your own, and also includes canopy control, as well as some other things that the old AFF didn't cover. From what I understand, many students in the old AFF program were really left feeling like they needed more training after they were signed off of AFF, and quite a few sought out coaching on their own anyway.

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[riddler 0]

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how much it takes to become a coach versus to become an instructor

Typically, to become an instructor, one must hold a current USPA coach rating, have a minimum of 500 jumps, be in the sport 3 years, take some intensive week-long training sessions (varies) and pass a number of ground and aerial evaluations. The programs differ for all the instructor ratings, but all are more expensive, more demanding and more difficult than becoming a coach by far. Instructors work with students that are in AFF, tandems or static lines. Instructors can also play the role of coach.

To become a coach, one must hold a USPA C license (and currently have 100 or more jumps), take a weekend class (costs vary), work with an instructor and demonstrate ground training for two student jumps, then pass two aerial evaluations for the same two student jumps. And yes, we do help teach part or all of first jump courses. Coaches are there to fill the gap and work with students that have completed S/L or AFF and are cleared for solo jumps, but do not yet have an A license. Coaches may also be specialists that have thousands of jumps in RW, freeflying or whatever else and can impart this knowledge to more experienced skydivers.

[riddler 0]

***First, they will be able to do recurrency training and jumps for licensed jumpers. Also, if they have extensive freeflying experience, they can work on freeflying with non-licensed students. Finally, they have clarified that "a USPA instructional rating holder (USPA Coach or higher) must accompany the student on group freefall jumps but may choose additional jumpers to join them."***

Luna - thanks for posting this - I look forward to seeing this the new issue of Parachutist (I assume September?).

I would like to point out that at least part of this is in conflict with the 2003 SIM, which states, Section 5-2:

"USPA xxx-license holders who have not made a freefall skydive within the preceding xxx days should make at least one jump under the direct supervision of a USPA Instructor until demonstrating ..."

The SIM makes clear delineation between coaches, instructors and instructor evaluators. Under the current SIM, a coach may not do a recurrency jump with a non-current skydiver. I don't want to get off topic, but right now it seems that the role of coach is somewhat fuzzy. I hope as you say that the role will be expanded in the future.

[Luna 0]

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I would like to point out that at least part of this is in conflict with the 2003 SIM, which states, Section 5-2:

"USPA xxx-license holders who have not made a freefall skydive within the preceding xxx days should make at least one jump under the direct supervision of a USPA Instructor until demonstrating ..."

The SIM makes clear delineation between coaches, instructors and instructor evaluators. Under the current SIM, a coach may not do a recurrency jump with a non-current skydiver. I don't want to get off topic, but right now it seems that the role of coach is somewhat fuzzy. I hope as you say that the role will be expanded in the future.

Sorry! I need to clarify that the article I'm referring to is one that is detailing changes in the new SIM coming out in September of this year. I hope that makes things clearer!

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[riddler 0]

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new SIM coming out in September of this year.

And hopefully it will be available on-line! - thanks, L

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[NightJumper 0]

To take this a step further, why can't a rigger sign off on the packing or a pilot on the aircraft part?

[AggieDave 6]

A Coach isn't a full instructor. They operate under the supervision of instructors, even for Cat E through H. Coaches are intro-level instructors.

Personally, I think that the system works well. At 100 jumps (coach minimum), coaches don't have the experience to truely have the final say.

I got my TM a couple months ago, that legally gives me the right to sign of on any training I do Cat D and on, also on Cat A &B when doing tandem progression. You know what? I still talk to our head instructor/AFF guy all the damned time in reference to students to make sure I'm doing it right, to make sure I'm teaching our students right, to make sure I didn't miss anything, just to make sure. You know why? I don't feel I have the experience yet to truely be off on my own doing my own thing when it comes anything but tandems, and even there, I'm still a wet-behind-the-ears newbie.


Ok, the point of my rambling is that NO, the coaches should not have more authority, if they want more authority, they should work towards other ratings to give them that authority.

If a jumper only has a coach rating, they'll claim they need more authority. Once they start working on other ratings, they'll understand that they weren't in a position then to truely need or use properly that authority. Atleast that's been my limited experience.

The Coach rating is an opportunity to learn how to teach under the supervision of a full instructor, while dealing with real students. Use it as a springboard to progress to other ratings.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[riddler 0]

If you look at the ISP card, you will see that's true. Instead of an I next to the block, there is a P/I (Pilot or instructor) for aircraft and spotting, and an R/I (rigger or instructor) on the packing block as well. Thia makes sense to me.

I don't want to confuse anyone by stating that a coach should be able to sign off on early ISP jumps. ISP incorporates what used to be AFF, and early ISP jumps should involve instructors, not coaches. However, once the student is cleared for self supervision (category E), a coach, IMO should be able to ground train and sign off on skills (spotting, exit separation, basic aeriel, etc). Otherwise, instructors are doing all 20 or so jumps of ISP, as well as all ground training, and signing off all (but 4) jumps. Look at the ISP card past category E - there are all sort of skills that coaches are trained to observe students for - docking, tracking, breakoff, spotting, etc - but can't sign off on. Why limit them to just four blocks on Cat E-H, when they are capable of observing and signing more than that?

Now the "old" A card (given to students that complete AFF) has no room for coaches to sign - DZs and students that still use the original A card can't have a coach do anything for the students. This doesn't make sense to me at all.