moodyskydiver 0 #26 September 1, 2003 QuoteOne of the things that the Gun Owners of America objects to is that students would be asked: "Whether the right to keep and bear arms is still as 'important today' as it was in the 18th century, and to decide what 'limitations' should be placed on the right," Last semester in my Natl. Government course we actually had a similar exercise/discussion.We were told that the country had gone into a revolution and a new government had been established.They were allowing the citizens to choose only 3 from the Bill of Rights to be honored by the new govt.In a class of 50+ only 4 people were willing to give up their right to bear arms. So I believe alot of people,myself included, think gun ownership is still pretty important today. Now that I'm legal to own a handgun,I've actually been looking into purchasing one for myself and taking courses for a concealed weapons permit.So on the topic of a similar thread, do you guys have any recommendations for a small(er) handgun?I have fairly small hands and its hard to keep a good grip or sense of balance with most guns. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #27 September 1, 2003 QuoteQuoteI'm an advocate for letting people have guns and rather than teaching our children to hate guns, we should keep a more neutral stance on the topic by teaching them that guns are dangerous, but there is a time and place for them, I am more of an advocate of actually teaching all children they are not only dangerous... but the consequences of using one. As part of that everyone should be taught proper GUN CONTROL..in other words how to actually use the damn thing. Good point. Gun Safety should be a necessary class for every gun owner just like the Hunters' Safety course I had to take before I got a hunting license...................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #28 September 1, 2003 Quotedo you guys have any recommendations for a small(er) handgun?I have fairly small hands and its hard to keep a good grip or sense of balance with most guns. I personally like the Baretta 9, and the Sig 40 cal. Fits nice in my hand (jokes about this no good here because I've called it, myself) and not a lot of kick for wee girls like me...................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #29 September 1, 2003 "An armed society is a polite society" -- Robert A. Heinlein One of my favorite quotes actually.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #30 September 1, 2003 QuoteGuns do not kill people - people kill people. Personally, I think the gun helps. No-one has ever been fatally wounded by somebody pointing their finger at them and shouting "BANG BANG" Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #31 September 1, 2003 Quote No-one has ever been fatally wounded by somebody pointing their finger at them and shouting "BANG BANG" Not by just poining their finger, but I guess you 've never heard of anyone choking someone to death with their bare hands or beating them to death with fists and kicks. No gun involved; person still dead...................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #32 September 1, 2003 QuoteQuote No-one has ever been fatally wounded by somebody pointing their finger at them and shouting "BANG BANG" Not by just poining their finger, but I guess you 've never heard of anyone choking someone to death with their bare hands or beating them to death with fists and kicks. No gun involved; person still dead. Yeah! Hands are dealy weapons! We should confiscate them or have a National Hand Registry! "Outlaw hands and only outlaws will be able to give handjobs!" "Hands don't kill people - people kill people!" There's nothing in the constitution about the right to keep and bear hands, just arms! There's the solution to the gun problem! Let them keep their guns, but take their hands! (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #33 September 1, 2003 Take away my gun rights, I still have my combat folders (knives) that I am VERY good with and am well trained on using them. Take away my combat folders and I'll carry an Asp. Take that away and I'll carry a stick. I've trained for fighting with a baton/sticks of various lengths. Take away all of those, as well as a lot of other things I could carry and would carry, and I still have my arms and feet. I've been fairly extensively trained to use those too. The point is, objects don't perpetuate the violence, people do, and as long as people are violent, I'm going to have something to protect myself and my family. As of right now, a firearm is the best choice, but I will always have something, no matter what.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #34 September 1, 2003 QuoteTake away my gun rights, I still have my combat folders (knives) that I am VERY good with and am well trained on using them. I know you are being serious, but I couldn't help but to think of the scene in the Indiana Jones movie where the arab dude is showing off his sword skills and Indy gets bored and shoots him. I thought that was funny; I'm a sick bitch...................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #35 September 1, 2003 QuoteSo on the topic of a similar thread, do you guys have any recommendations for a small(er) handgun?I have fairly small hands and its hard to keep a good grip or sense of balance with most guns I like the Glock 27. It is small and is a .40 caliber. Easy to conceal also. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #36 September 1, 2003 QuoteQuoteGuns do not kill people - people kill people. Personally, I think the gun helps. No-one has ever been fatally wounded by somebody pointing their finger at them and shouting "BANG BANG" Lets put it this way , if I wanted to kill you the lack of a gun would not stop me . People are creative when it comes to killing and the lack of a gun would make me think of a more brutal way to do a person in . It is human nature to destroy themselves and each other . Why don't you talk about the murder rate in Russia and the brutality it is accomplished with . They are pretty much a unarmed country and the murder rate is very high . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GigaBuist 0 #37 September 1, 2003 Quote Now that I'm legal to own a handgun,I've actually been looking into purchasing one for myself and taking courses for a concealed weapons permit.So on the topic of a similar thread, do you guys have any recommendations for a small(er) handgun?I have fairly small hands and its hard to keep a good grip or sense of balance with most guns. I'm a pretty small guy, my hand's aren't usually that much bigger than a woman's, so I can relate. I've got one more year until I qualify for CCW (got a little misdemeanor) but my sights, no pun intended, are set on a Glock 26. It's a sub-compact 9mm. The Glock 27 is a possibility but I'd like to try one out to see if I can double-tap something comfortably with it. I've never found a revolver that set well in my hands, probably because I'm so used to semi's. Though, all I've ever touched there are .357 magnums, .44's and .454's. A snub-nosed .357 might be a bit more comfortable though. I know Smith and Wesson make a "Lady Smith" that's marketed toward women. I've met some serious shooters that got one of their wife. The real trick, I think, for small people that want to carry is finding a place to hide the darned thing. Sure, if I'm wearing a sweatshirt of a sweater I can stick a full sized semi in the front of my pants but that's only going to work about 6 months of the year where I live. Just make sure you can find something that meets the following criteria in order: Reliable You can shoot well You can conceal well No rough edges to snag on clothes Has adequate stopping power. I wouldn't go any lower than 9mm here. The 'rough edges' thing isn't something I've seen anybody here but me mention thus far but it's certainly something to think about. You don't want to delay your draw because your pistol is stuck in your shirt or something. It's somethinig that can be worked on post-production too and will probably need to be unless you got something specifically built for concealed carry. Kahr arms makes a number of polymer frame sub-compacts too but I don't see too many around here so I haven't gotten a chance to try one out first hand. If you can get in touch with an NRA instructor for your CCW course they could probably set you up with a local womens' only shooting organization -- they've probably got some pretty good opinions on the matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #38 September 1, 2003 Quote Lets put it this way , if I wanted to kill you the lack of a gun would not stop me That's true. But people are lazy, and a gun makes it a lot easier, more certain, and less likely to get hurt or messy yourself if you get drunk and angry at some guy who dissed you in a bar. You can do it with a knife or a baseball bat, but then you have to get closer, which might make you actually think twice. Well, at least it sure seems to work out that way on the news a lot. The vast majority of handguns aren't ever used in self-defense. The people who are responsible gun owners are unlikely to do that. There's something about seeing what you've done to a target to help you realize that's not something you want to do to a person just because they pissed you off. Unfortunately, it's way too easy for irresponsible people to become gun owners. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #39 September 1, 2003 QuoteThe vast majority of handguns aren't ever used in self-defense. They're not used at all! -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #40 September 1, 2003 QuoteQuote Lets put it this way , if I wanted to kill you the lack of a gun would not stop me That's true. But people are lazy, and a gun makes it a lot easier, more certain, and less likely to get hurt or messy yourself if you get drunk and angry at some guy who dissed you in a bar. You can do it with a knife or a baseball bat, but then you have to get closer, which might make you actually think twice. Well, at least it sure seems to work out that way on the news a lot. The vast majority of handguns aren't ever used in self-defense. The people who are responsible gun owners are unlikely to do that. There's something about seeing what you've done to a target to help you realize that's not something you want to do to a person just because they pissed you off. Unfortunately, it's way too easy for irresponsible people to become gun owners. Wendy W.Want a better solution to the problem ? Outlaw booze and drugs and enforce it , they really have no purpose other than to alter a persons state of mind . I could live without any form of booze . I'm sure that a whole lot of battered women and children would be happy that daddy can't drink anymore because he beats us when he's drunk . I carry a gun everywhere I go and it is not my first choice when a problem presents itself . I would much rather beat a person senseless then to shoot them but if a gun or knife is pulled out I will pull . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #41 September 2, 2003 This month's issue of "America's 1st Freedom", an NRA publication, brought to light a town in Georgia that's had it's crime rate drop by 89% in the past 21 years. It's accredited to a local ordinance passed in 1982 that required the head of every household to maintain a firearm and ammunition in the home. Sure makes for some interesting thinking. *** not only that... but if you DON'T comply, you have to pay a fee, I heard it was 5 hundred or something, which is labelled as a fee for the cops to protect you and your house or something. Forgive me for butchering this if I've got it all wrong... Bottom line, (unsure if it's been said before, haven't read the whole thread) is that in places where concealed carry is happening, crime is down. Not every person has to be packin, but if some ARE, the criminals have to pause and think, hmmm... is this one packing? should I fuck w/ him? or move on to someone else... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #42 September 2, 2003 QuoteThe real trick, I think, for small people that want to carry is finding a place to hide the darned thing. If I'm not wearing a jacket and I don't expect to go into a high risk environment I wear an ankle holster. If I don't have a jacket, am in a high risk environment, or am wearing shorts I either carry my Glock 27 in an in-the-pants-holster(IPH) or a fanny pack. I have an IPH that I can tuck my shirt in while wearing. I have to wear larger pants though. The fanny pack for a G27 is small and not obvious. For women, a purse with a concealed holster in it is an obvious and easy choice. Just practice with it. I've never fired a Glock 26 but I have no problem shooting the Glock 27. Based on some firefights with 9mms I've heard about, I wouldn't trust the knockdown power of the 9mm. The .40 caliber packs a good punch while still being very controllable. Lastly, let me say, I am not a gun nut. I carry because it is a small part of my job. If I didn't have this job I wouldn't carry. It is a pain in the ass and, without proper intense and regular training, can get you into a whole lot more trouble than it can get you out of. If you are going to carry be prepared to pay for high quality training and train regularly. I'm not talking just shooting either. I'm talking scenarios where you have to make "shoot" and "no shoot" decisions quickly, while stressed. Just MHO. Take it for what it is worth. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #43 September 2, 2003 QuoteWant a better solution to the problem ? Outlaw booze and drugs and enforce it , i am dumbfounded, speechless. just wanted to know if i wuz da only one....namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #44 September 2, 2003 QuoteQuoteWant a better solution to the problem ? Outlaw booze and drugs and enforce it , i am dumbfounded, speechless. just wanted to know if i wuz da only one.... "First" -- you owe, er, Pepsi? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #45 September 2, 2003 Um -- yeah, speechless, therefore didn't post Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #46 September 2, 2003 Quote am dumbfounded, speechless. just wanted to know if i wuz da only one.... Why? Drugs are illegal, so no one uses those and there's no crime associated with it. Booze was outllawed once in America and it was a time of peace and low crime... Oh, wait...I guess I was wrong.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #47 September 2, 2003 >>Want a better solution to the problem ? Outlaw booze and drugs and enforce it , >i am dumbfounded, speechless. just wanted to know if i wuz da only one.... I'm not. A great many people don't know the history of prohibition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #48 September 2, 2003 >The US Army has enough weapons in the modern era that civilians can't > own that would enable it to crush any uprising fairly quickly. Then why has our army not crushed the uprisings in Iraq and Afghanistan yet? The strength of the guerilla is that you can make it very expensive for the opposition to kill him. In this case, the US government could take care of all the guerrillas in Baghdad (or, in your example of a US uprising, Kansas City) with nuclear or chemical weapons, but we are not prepared to pay the costs of using those weapons - so the guerilla retains some power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #49 September 2, 2003 QuoteThen why has our army not crushed the uprisings in Iraq and Afghanistan yet? The guerillas in Iraq and Afghanistan are not trying to overthrow the existing US government. They are trying to make our occupation of their country too expensive for the American Public. They are attacking the "will" of the American people. There is a big difference in the objectives and the tactics required to win. In order to overthrow the existing government you would either have to completely defeat the US armed forces or have some type of mass mutiny to make them ineffective. Guerilla attacks within the country would be a war of attrition where you are expecting the government to finally say, "OK, we've had enough. We'll step down." That is not likely to happen. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #50 September 2, 2003 Quote>>Want a better solution to the problem ? Outlaw booze and drugs and enforce it , >i am dumbfounded, speechless. just wanted to know if i wuz da only one.... I'm not. A great many people don't know the history of prohibition. Obviously. Hey, Fasterfaller, take a refresher in 1920s American history. You will see that prohibition didn't work then and it certainly won't work, now. Shit, if we can't be successful in banning illegal drugs, what makes you think we can add to that list and ban alcohol? Why don't we ban cigarettes, as well? You know, I don't like annoying vegetarians and crying children - let's ban them, too. Let's just ban everything that I personally don't like without regard for others' opinions. HRH Laurel, High Empress of the Universe..................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
