What You Think You Know About Sept. 11 … but don't.

[kallend 2,146]

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And the US saved Europe in WWII.

Another Hollywood educated historian!

Here are some historical and verifiable facts for you:

The USSR killed more German troops in WWII than all other nations combined.

The Nazis abandoned all plans to invade Britain after losing the Battle of Britain in 1940, more than a year before Pearl Harbor. After 1940 the Nazis never again attempted to invade Britain nor even developed any plans to do so. The Battle of Britain so discredited Goering and the Luftwaffe in Hitler's eyes that the Luftwaffe was never again to be used effectively in the west.

No US troops were in action against Germany until Torch, late in 1942, more than 3 years into WWII.

The Germans had already been defeated in the Battle of Britain, outside Moscow and were being badly mauled at Stalingrad by the time any US forces saw action in the ETO. Rommel's Afrika Korps was routed by the British at El Alamein just as Torch was getting underway.

The entire Italian and most of the Vichy French navies had been put out of action by the British before Pearl Harbor.

The German surface navy had been mostly destroyed or rendered ineffective before Pearl Harbor. (The Bismarck was sunk on it's first outing, as was the Graf Spee. The Tirpitz never saw any action before being sunk by the RAF. The Gneisenau was destroyed by the RAF, the Scharnhorst was sunk by the British Navy and the Prinz Eugen was effectively blockaded for most of the war by the British).

Now for some speculation:

The German defeat in WWII was sealed when they delayed the start of Barbarossa in summer 1941, due to the unplanned diversion of German troops to help the Italians in the Balkans. This delay prevented them from taking Moscow before the winter of 1941 and allowed the USSR to regroup and bring to bear its incredible advantage in troop strength, which eventually resulted in the disaster (for the Nazis) at Stalingrad, a loss from which they never recovered.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

no John it can't be. That is not what I saw in the movies, so it can't be right. You mean people other than the americans were involved in the fight against the nazis. Geez, who would have thunk it

[storm1977 0]

You mean you actually bought FRAKEN's book...

I AM SORRY!!!

IF you think GWB is a liar ... ahhhh i give up.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

[mikkey 0]

You are making some good points. I would however like to point out that during the early to middle part of the war in Europe, the most important contribution of the US was material and ships to both GB and (later) to a certain degree the USSR - some of it even before the US entered the war. It is not known if the British could have coped without this help and the aid the USSR received did help them. It is however impossible to speculate about thses things.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[quade 4]

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You mean you actually bought FRAKEN's book...

I AM SORRY!!!

IF you think GWB is a liar ... ahhhh i give up.

That's it? That's all you've got? That's the best you can do?

At least go to a public library and read the book before assuming he hasn't backed up his stuff with some facts.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[juanesky 0]

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And the US saved Europe in WWII.

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Here are some historical and verifiable facts for you:

The USSR killed more German troops in WWII than all other nations combined.

Yes, they are known for taking good care of prisoners of war, particulary under Stalin's humanitarian regime, just like the allies did.

The Nazis abandoned all plans to invade Britain after losing the Battle of Britain in 1940, more than a year before Pearl Harbor. After 1940 the Nazis never again attempted to invade Britain nor even developed any plans to do so. The Battle of Britain so discredited Goering and the Luftwaffe in Hitler's eyes that the Luftwaffe was never again to be used effectively in the west.
And this meant the Germans went back to Germany The British were not surrounded and really an effective force pushed back Nazi Europe occupation.

No US troops were in action against Germany until Torch, late in 1942, more than 3 years into WWII.

I guess the May 30 Cologne bombing does not count in your account or does pilots dropping bombs on German or occupied German cities not part of US combatants according to your definitions.

I guess I missed were the bombing campain from England by the US army Air force that began mid 1942, did not help at all minimizing German capabilities to produce their war gears...Just a hollywood teaching I guess, lets see, Spring is late in the year right? I see that by 1942 also, German retracted in Europe, and guess that little nuissance of Stalingrad ended, then too right? (news for you...it ended in 1943, Feb.? Roight man...*Inhales*.Are you a dope advocate too?

The Germans had already been defeated in the Battle of Britain, outside Moscow and were being badly mauled at Stalingrad by the time any US forces saw action in the ETO. Rommel's Afrika Korps was routed by the British at El Alamein just as Torch was getting underway.

Well if according to your accounts the battle of britain being freeing Europe, then you are right, if, and this is how I understood it, was the attempt to invade the British Islands, then that is correct. But they still held complete power of their occupied zones. Another little fact that you are not stating, Montgomery took command of allies troops in Africa which I think it included US troops and tanks too, and operation Supercharge (the one that actually broke axis lines) was before Torch (one week before).
Stalingrad was seiged by Germans in this year, and the Soviets started teh offensive in Jan 1943. Soviet resistance in Crimea ended in July this year, and November 11, German and Italian troops invade unoccupied Vichy France.....So much for the power of Nazi's being apeaced on that year and by the Russians....Granted the first major defeat of Hitler's army was the one in Stalingrad in Feb 1943. So if you are implying that it was not only after the major allied bombing, then I do not know what kind or wherre have you gotten your information.


The entire Italian and most of the Vichy French navies had been put out of action by the British before Pearl Harbor. Please refer to the blue statement just above this parragraph


The German surface navy had been mostly destroyed or rendered ineffective before Pearl Harbor. (The Bismarck was sunk on it's first outing, as was the Graf Spee. The Tirpitz never saw any action before being sunk by the RAF. The Gneisenau was destroyed by the RAF, the Scharnhorst was sunk by the British Navy and the Prinz Eugen was effectively blockaded for most of the war by the British).
Now for some speculation:
The German defeat in WWII was sealed when they delayed the start of Barbarossa in summer 1941, due to the unplanned diversion of German troops to help the Italians in the Balkans. This delay prevented them from taking Moscow before the winter of 1941 and allowed the USSR to regroup and bring to bear its incredible advantage in troop strength, which eventually resulted in the disaster (for the Nazis) at Stalingrad, a loss from which they never recovered.

Whatever your rant is about the US signifying the important break in the tide of WWII, you are the one that is obviously blind to the fact that is was the force that untied the Germans, while these were holding the Soviet lines, it was not until 1944 and late 1944 that the Soviets were able to penetrate, mind you that after the Normandy operation took hold.

I am not in any way saying it was sole US intervention, but it was by its own one of the great force that took to untie the outbreak of war. (The major mistake by the Axis was not the Soviets but the attack on Pearl Harbor).


Granted all the rest of allies made a great contribution, first by the declaration of the United Nations (26 allied nations) and second in recogninzing the threat of global control by the forces of the axis.(or the otherway around)

Same for the plan Marshal which was also a success not only for the effort of US contributions, but by each country receiving it and making it work.


So if you still want to deny many facts go ahead, you are daydreaming if you think that unfortunately this whole mess of terrorist around the world will solve by peaceful and blodless efforts. They have more than proven their intolerance to any religion, and the ignorance to attack and kill innocent civilians, and cowards to hide between their own and try to blame needless death to the forces that are rooting them out.

I'll prefer to sacrifice my life defending the very ideals that your are despising here, and that will include you, and your future, even though you are self absorbed in self rightouness wrongfully focused.

Good luck in your endeavors, and if your ass gets blown or someone you care about does indeed die by the acts commited on these people you wholeheartedly defend, then don't come bitching and imploring for people for VIBES or pitty.

So long, and good luck educating your self, you need a lot of it.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[jfields 0]

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So long, and good luck educating your self, you need a lot of it.

While I disagree with Kallend on some things, I'd hardly call him uneducated. At least he understand the difference between fact and fiction. You could use some remedial effort on that, from what I've seen in your posts.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So long, and good luck educating your self, you need a lot of it.

John Kallend is a University professor. So far you are a person not even able to answer one simple question that I have asked you 4, four, times. On top of that you are someone who has made openly racist remarks on this forum.

Mmm, that is really pretty simple math.

Telling a university professor to get ecucated once again shows the enormous amount of ignorance you seem to embody.

[juanesky 0]

just like you are doing now....Like it or not, you would be speaking GERMAN if not by the US.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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So long, and good luck educating your self, you need a lot of it.

John Kallend is a University professor. So far you are a person not even able to answer one simple question that I have asked you 4, four, times. On top of that you are someone who has made openly racist remarks on this forum.

Mmm, that is really pretty simple math.

Telling a university professor to get ecucated once again shows the enormous amount of ignorance you seem to embody.

If those credentials are from an Iranian university I will have issues on believing, Ans your question has been answered numerous time, you don't need to seek protection from someone else's answer, be your own man.

As as far as bigotry goes, I gues being called Nazi Sympthizer is something I should be proud of right?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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So long, and good luck educating your self, you need a lot of it.

While I disagree with Kallend on some things, I'd hardly call him uneducated. At least he understand the difference between fact and fiction. You could use some remedial effort on that, from what I've seen in your posts.

Well if you disagree on him, be specific, and point those things out, because it baffles me his account that German were defeated and retreating before 1942. Hmm so much for a "professor"

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[jfields 0]

I'm telling you, man, it is the mind control rays. There is just no other explanation.

[kallend 2,146]

First you write:

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And the US saved Europe in WWII.

and then you write:

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I am not in any way saying it was sole US intervention, but it was by its own one of the great force that took to untie the outbreak of war.

and

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Granted all the rest of allies made a great contribution, first by the declaration of the United Nations (26 allied nations) and second in recogninzing the threat of global control by the forces of the axis.(or the otherway around).

So what exactly is your point? Either the US saved Europe, or was part of a great alliance that saved Europe. Which is it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[juanesky 0]

Again you are refuting things without clearing yourself. Go ahead and explain in what you don't agree with Kallend.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

So you are saying that the Germans were on retreat by 1942?.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[jfields 0]

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Go ahead and explain in what you don't agree with Kallend.

They don't have anything to do with the mockery of logic you are exhibiting in this thread. For those purposes, I'll cheerfully acknowledge 100% agreement with everyone offering rebuttals to your points.

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[juanesky 0]

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First you write:

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And the US saved Europe in WWII.

and then you write:

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I am not in any way saying it was sole US intervention, but it was by its own one of the great force that took to untie the outbreak of war.

and

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Granted all the rest of allies made a great contribution, first by the declaration of the United Nations (26 allied nations) and second in recogninzing the threat of global control by the forces of the axis.(or the otherway around).

So what exactly is your point? Either the US saved Europe, or was part of a great alliance that saved Europe. Which is it?

My pont is that the major force in allied intervention was shouldered by US Troops ans supplies. not implying like you that soviets and British were defeating and making the Germans retreat by 1942.

You will deny to the end the endless supples to the allied during the war years, and not taking this into your accounts and history.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

You just simply are saying right because you say so?

What what a rebuff, again Mr/ Professor has yet to explain the German retreat in 1942.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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Go ahead and explain in what you don't agree with Kallend.

They don't have anything to do with the mockery of logic you are exhibiting in this thread. For those purposes, I'll cheerfully acknowledge 100% agreement with everyone offering rebuttals to your points.

So you just acknowledge because everyone is just 4 people. Gee I hope they don't make a comment to the jump without a rig is safe, for I can see you doing it....Based on your logic.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[FliegendeWolf 0]

God dammit I'm out of popcorn. Anybody need anything?

<----goes to snackbar to get some more.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Muenkel 0]

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God dammit I'm out of popcorn. Anybody need anything?

Yeah, some knee high rubber boots so I can through all these piles of shit being thrown around.

_________________________________________
Chris

[jfields 0]

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God dammit I'm out of popcorn. Anybody need anything?

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Yeah, some knee high rubber boots so I can through all these piles of shit being thrown around.

I was more thinking of some duct tape and a cattle prod, but I suppose you can put me down for a pair of hip waders instead.

[Muenkel 0]

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At least go to a public library and read the book before assuming he hasn't backed up his stuff with some facts.

I would, but it would cut into my time being spent on searching for four leaf clovers.

_________________________________________
Chris

[wmw999 2,584]

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So you just acknowledge because everyone is just 4 people.

There are more than 4 people who think that the Allies, without the US, would have eventually defeated Germany during WW2. Look at the map, the size of the countries, and consider how long they could have held that much area without making the residents VERY happy indeed.

Germany did not have either population or technological superiority to a degree to make long-term (or even middle-term) conquest possible.

Was it faster with the US helping? Undoubtedly. Was it less damaging with the US helping? Depends on to whom, but probably.

Making fun of people is a poor way to debate. It says far more about your ability to debate than theirs. There are intelligent people who disagree with you. There are intelligent people who disagree with them, for that matter. But they talk about the issues, and don't call each other (or others) names, particularly bigoted ones.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)