United States vs Richard Reid - Judge Remarks

[Guest]

I just freakin' LOVE this guy!

U.S. District Court Judge William Young made the following statement in sentencing "shoe bomber" Richard Reid to prison. It is noteworthy, and deserves to be remembered far longer than he predicts.


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January 30, 2003 United States vs. Reid.

Judge Young:

"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.

On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General.

On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years.

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million.

The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.

The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statues. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you.

We are not afraid of any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is all too much war talk here. And I say that to everyone with the utmost respect.

Here in this court , where we deal with individuals as individuals, and care for individuals as individuals, as human beings we reach out for justice, you are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney who does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a terrorist.

And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.

So war talk is way out of line in this court. You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I know warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders.

In a very real sense Trooper Santigo had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were and he said you're no big deal. You're no big deal.

What your counsel, what your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today? I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an answer! for you. It may not satisfy you. But as I search this entire record it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me you hate the one thing that is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose.

Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom. So that everyone can see, truly see that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely.

It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their, their representation of you before other judges. We are about it. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden, pay any price, to preserve our freedoms.

Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. Day after tomorrow it will be forgotten. But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice,individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged, and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid? That's the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. You know it always will.

Custody Mr. Officer. Stand him down."

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Deuce 1]

Nice. Thanks.

[narcimund 0]

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You hate our freedom

It's patronizing when authorities such as this one (and George Bush is another) put ridiculous words in the mouths of the other side.

It reminds me when anti-gay activists announce, wrongly, that gay people "are only obsessed with sex" or environmentalists hate industry, business, and success. Very nice try in making the other sides look bad, but you're just making shit up.

Wouldn't it make more sense for us to presume they have at least internally consistent motives? The reason they're attacking us is revenge for decades of us attacking them. The US has played a heavy handed game of deceit, warmaking, and covert destabilization for many years. None of this is news!

After all that we're chanting, "They hate our freedom"? Why not, "They hate our little puppy dogs and pretty wildflowers"?

You and this judge might believe the US was within its rights all these years to do all the destructive things it's done, but don't pretend after causing havok (even possibly justified havok) in peoples' countries that they won't harbor massive resentments. And don't attribute it to nonsensical motives. Look with your eyes.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[321seeya 0]

Get a F'Ing Clue !
Got to have one screwball in every group that trys to Bastardize a thread.

I totally agree with what the Judge had to say..
I would have been even happier if he would just said...THROW THE SWITCH!

(And Ill bet that bastard does hate our little puppy dogs...he didnt give a shit about the little kids on that flight)

BASE 3:16 - Even if you are about to land on a cop - DONT FORGET TO FLARE!
Free the soul -- DJ

[Harksaw 0]

Yeah, the "You hate freedom" arguement really ticks me off. Theres plenty wrong with these people without having to make shit up.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[Push 0]

Haven't we had this argument before?

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

You and this judge might believe the US was within its rights all these years to do all the destructive things it's done, but don't pretend after causing havok (even possibly justified havok) in peoples' countries that they won't harbor massive resentments. And don't attribute it to nonsensical motives. Look with your eyes.

Ummm I think you missed the point of WHY this speech was being made.

He had a shoe bomb! He was trying to kill people. People that did absolutely nothing to him. People like you. He didn't care what any one believed individually. He wanted recognition for himself.

I really worry about those opinions you have.

Do you really think he's justified?

Answer this...would your opinion be different if it was you he was sitting next to on that flight, or perhaps your wife, G/f or son or daughter?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[narcimund 0]

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Haven't we had this argument before?

Oh, I'm sorry. Forget I brought it up.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[narcimund 0]

There are people who judge everything from their personal centric position and those who evaluate the symmetric dynamics of the entire system.

You can easily tell the difference. The first kind uses the words "us" and "them" a lot. "Us" is philosophically merged with the concepts of "good" and "desirable". Anything which challenges "us" is "evil" even though it's simply "them" acting on the exact same pattern that "us" is. This is the position which leads to wars. When children fight this way, adults smile patronizingly at them and send them to their rooms to think about it. When adults fight this way, innocents die bloody and painful deaths.

The kind of person who evaluates dispassionately to find a wider truth usually becomes a historian, since when they apply their tools to current events, they end up hated by both sides of the conflict.

"Which side are you on? You're either with us or with them!"

"I'm on neither side. You're both being childish."

"Ah ha! You're allied with our enemy after all!"

"No, but your vast incompetance in basic rational thought could certainly lead you to that conclusion."

"TRAITOR!"

"Sigh..."

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Push 0]

Alright, very well.

If what you say is true then countries that have never been personally involved with the manipulations of the US should be safe from these terrorists, right?

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[bmcd308 0]

So, Narcimund, are you going to start dating women, or are you a terrorist?




This is an awesome way to argue! I hope it works as well when I use it on my boss ... "So can I get a raise, or are you a terrorist?"

Heh.

You are very right about this type of argument, although the adult version of it takes many more forms than what you've pointed out here. Most arguments that rely on an appeal to goodness are at least close cousins of this.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Get a F'Ing Clue !
Got to have one screwball in every group that trys to Bastardize a thread

Forum rules.

Please take special note of #1. No personal attacks. That includes any form of name calling.

[juanesky 0]

Thank you for sharing.

Blue skies!

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[RevJim 0]

Careful how you word stuff dude.

Check this for an idea of how much of an open mind he has.

Then just ignore him like I do.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[lawrocket 3]

It's patronizing when non-authorities such as yourself put ridicolouos words in the mouths of the other side.

It reminds me of when gay activitists announce, wrongly, that I am homophobic because I am adverse to calling gay domestic partnership "marriage" or when environmentalists call me a corporate whore polluter because I believe that saving trees by not using paper is the same thing as saving corn by not eating it.

Well, I'll stop using your words here. But did you notice how you put words in the mouth of a terrorist, the very act that you abhor? The judge found his reason for attacking us. How dare he!

You found another reason for their attacking us. You speak the truth! Just like chuteless.

You know, I respect chuteless more. At least he is up front with what he says. He doesn't have a problem with his idea that his is the Truth.

But you, on the other, do what you claim to despise. I don't think you do actually despise this idea. You haven't spoken to Richard Reid, and yet you state your ideas of his motives as if you were the burning bush.

Show some consistency.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mjosparky 4]

One of the great things about this country, both you and this Judge have a right to your opinions. The difference is his counts and your doesn't.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[lawrocket 3]

Oh, yeah. One more thing...

You believe that "The reason they're attacking us is revenge for decades of us attacking them."

Apparently, Richard Reid harbors bitter resentment from earlier than 1814. When was the last time we attacked Britain? He is British, ater all.

And again, do you notice the "us" and "them." In your very quote you use it. Then you have another post about how bad the "us" and "them" is.

Consistency. Quit saying something is wrong and then doing it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[juanesky 0]

I know how this can get the best of you. I think this was a smart response, at least the guy had his day in court. Instead of despising the very actions of what the freedom of choices give you, lets work together to make this a better world instead.

Edited to ad: yes, he is British after all.....what a travesty a "converted" fanatic.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[kiltboy 0]

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Apparently, Richard Reid harbors bitter resentment from earlier than 1814. When was the last time we attacked Britain? He is British, ater all.

Do you realise the abuse that America has inflicted upon the English language? There is a U in the alphabet people use it!!! An what's with using Z all the time? Is this just another way you can win at Srabble?

David

• Quote

[billvon 3,111]

>He had a shoe bomb! He was trying to kill people. People that did
> absolutely nothing to him. People like you. He didn't care what any
> one believed individually. He wanted recognition for himself.
> Do you really think he's justified?

Of course he's not justified. But to claim he hates freedom makes about as much sense as claiming that the US hates Muslims. We hate what terrorists do, and most of them were Muslim. He hates what the US does, and all of us are free. Doesn't mean we hate Muslims, doesn't mean he hates freedom.

Jeez. He's a criminal. Throw the book at him because he committed a crime (or tried to) not because what people think his views on freedom are.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Check this for an idea of how much of an open mind he has.

Wow. That unrelated thread is nine months old. Do you keep lists of threads by your computer to use against people? Or are you just obsessed with me?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[lawrocket 3]

Yeah. We take the "u" out of those words. If we can say "color" in 5 letters, we will. It's more advanced, and leads to a greater efficiency. This is why y'all across the Pond in old Blighty pale in comparison to our efficiency. We simply found a better way to do it.

And our use of "Z?" Hell, we do what we want. We don't even call it "Zed" like y'all. "Zed" is what we used to name rednecks, till the French pissed us off.

I know, thread hijacked... But, isn't a hijacking what this thread is based on???

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

>He had a shoe bomb! He was trying to kill people. People that did
> absolutely nothing to him. People like you. He didn't care what any
> one believed individually. He wanted recognition for himself.
> Do you really think he's justified?

Of course he's not justified. But to claim he hates freedom makes about as much sense as claiming that the US hates Muslims. We hate what terrorists do, and most of them were Muslim. He hates what the US does, and all of us are free. Doesn't mean we hate Muslims, doesn't mean he hates freedom.

Jeez. He's a criminal. Throw the book at him because he committed a crime (or tried to) not because what people think his views on freedom are.

The Judge said that this guy hated freedom. Since he was there for the trial maybe he heard something we didn't. No of us know what this clown said or didn't say, and maybe he said he hates freedom.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[RevJim 0]

Quote

Quote

Check this for an idea of how much of an open mind he has.

Wow. That unrelated thread is nine months old. Do you keep lists of threads by your computer to use against people? Or are you just obsessed with me?

You really are that arrogant if that's what you believe. That particular thread stands out because (to me) you showed your true colors so well in it. That, and the fact that I'm the one who called you on it.

Get over it. As much as it seems you want everthing to be about you, it isn't.

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[narcimund 0]

I didn't SAY it was about me. I ASKED if it was about me. I suggested two choices: Either you keep a convenient list of threads to use against other people as well, or you only do that for me.

Your answer seems to be that IS only about me. Odd how you're calling me arrogant when (A) I didn't say what you claim I said and (B) if I HAD said it I would have been right.

I suppose I should be honored by all of this attention.

First Class Citizen Twice Over