JohnnyD 0 #26 September 16, 2003 And there it is.......From Clark to assult weapons in under 30 posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #27 September 16, 2003 QuoteWhy does the general public need them? Do you need an AK47 to defend your home? Possibly...I'm sure quite a few store owners in LA would have been pleased to have them during the riots. Not to mention when Rumsfeld decides my posts on here make me a terrorist suspect since I criticize him and I should be held in Gitmo indefinitely without a trial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #28 September 16, 2003 QuoteAnd there it is.......From Clark to assult weapons in under 30 posts. Is this thread drift or a riptide? never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #29 September 16, 2003 Quote Not to mention when Rumsfeld decides my posts on here make me a terrorist suspect since I criticize him and I should be held in Gitmo indefinitely without a trial. I think Ashcroft makes that decision. Coincidently, did you see John McCain on SNL making fun of Ashcroft? Absolutely hilarious! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #30 September 16, 2003 >>Why does the general public need assault weapons? << To preserve liberty. Everything else is just window dressing. I've never shot a deer in my life. That does not mean I do not enjoy rifles. Why don't you want the general public to have them? Please start your post with "I read on the VPC website that they were bad because..." Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #31 September 16, 2003 QuoteBahhh......If I'm confronting an intruder, I'd rather have something chambered and ready than hope they're scared by the sound of my chambering. I want to give them the opportunity to run away or give up. Every time. HOWEVER -- if you live in an environment dangerous enough that this is a realistic discussion (most burglars would much rather run away), you have to consider how likely you are to be surprised by someone in such a way that chambering would delay more than aiming and shooting enough to endanger you. And the comment about thread drift is accurate. Rhino, I really applaud you for considering Wesley Clark on all of his merits that you see, rather than only on his possible party affiliation. A friend of mine was very impressed with Ross Perot's running mate, not because of his wonderful delivery during the debates, but because he had been a very effective admiral. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #32 September 16, 2003 >>Why does the general public need assault weapons? << They don't. Why do you want the general public to have them? Please start your post with "The NRA brainwashed me to believe..." Two can play that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #33 September 16, 2003 I did not join the NRA until I was an adult. My beliefs are based on the fact that I was brought up in a home where I was taught to apply logic to decisions, rather than thinking of social goals that would be good to achieve (less crime), then supporting nonsensical approaches to achieving those goals (no black guns - they are scary scary scary, and I saw on a movie directed by a famous left winger that they are somehow different from the "good" guns, and it was a "documentary"). Do you believe that the current assault weapons ban has reduced or prevented crime? If so, by how much? ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GigaBuist 0 #34 September 16, 2003 Quote - Also, a rifle is considered an "assault weapon" if it can accept a detachable magazine, and possesses two or more of the following features: Folding or telescopic stock Pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the stock Bayonet mount Flash suppressor or threaded barrel Grenade launcher A lot of guns we own and enjoy are mistakenly placed into the "Assault Weapons" category based on looks alone................a real shame. Rhino, this is why there was a bit of contention over the definition of "assault rifle". To me it's any small calibre rifle that has the ability to fire in burst or full auto mode. Apparently the US government and it's citizens don't agree with me. That's why the rules Luv2Fall wrote about are above. Apparently that AK-47 sitting next to me is a sporting rifle right now. If I put a folding stock on it though -- watch out! It's now become a weapon too powerful for the American citizen to own. I can buy a folding stock for it... I can buy a tap and die set, I can buy a grenade launcher, etc... but I can't put them on the gun! It's a bit silly. It's not like we really "need" them. I'll admit that although I'm sure as heck not going to ever get rid of them. What scares me, and probably plenty of ther DZ.com people, is an elected official that doesn't trust me enough to have them. Why should it matter to them? I'm not a violent criminal. What's so scarey about peaceful citizens owning firearms? The idea of a president (or congress or senate) saying to the general population, "Ok, we control your lives now. Could you give us your guns now? You're not safe enough to handle them." is a bit well, odd, if you ask me. I was intelligent and responsible enough for this person to let me vote, but I can't have my guns? That's why I won't vote for somebody who holds such views. If they don't trust me why should I trust them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #35 September 16, 2003 QuoteMy beliefs are based on the fact that I was brought up in a home where I was taught to apply logic to decisions Same with mine. Yet you lump all people who aren't in favor of unlimited gun ownership is mis-informed anti-gunners. I was just illustrating the inaccuracies of such an approach. I'm more anti-crime than anti-gun, but in this country, the two have been linked for a long time. There are plenty of gun laws that make no sense, but also plenty of flaws in the logic of the general pro-gun lobby. Note that I didn't say you, I just said in general. However, this is an issue that has been beaten around the forums a nauseating number of times. I'll just leave it that we probably disagree... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #36 September 16, 2003 >>we probably disagree<< Nice understatement. Truce. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #37 September 16, 2003 QuoteJust the sound of cocking a shotgun is enough to scare away most intruders... I love that sound! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdhill 0 #38 September 16, 2003 QuoteHe is EXTREMELY well informed and intelligent.. ... and on the wrong side of allot of issues. He will NOT get my vote. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdhill 0 #39 September 16, 2003 Quotethe AR-15, to my understanding, isn't an assault rifle in that - - There's no "AUTO" to place the selector lever on. Actually, the original AR-15 was full auto... several of the characteristics you list can be found on olympic style target rifles and hunting rifles... many target rifles have adjustable stocks that can be called telescopic, and have muzzle breaks that would be called flash supressors (and why should that be a banned feature anyway?) And on the flip side, one of the first truely effective battle rifles has almost none of these features... bottom line is that if it LOOKS scary, then it must be an assault rifle (kinda like the obsenity test, I'll know it when I see it)... and that is a BS standard, IMO. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #40 September 16, 2003 QuoteSo, the ultimate weapon is mearly psychological? I mean, wouldn't it be much safer simply having a really good sound system and an MP3 of a shot gun cocking? Nope, that's not what I meant, quade. You're just being silly. That cocking sound will scare off most. If that doesn't work, they may hear the shotgun blast. Then again, you never hear the shot that kills you, is what I've been told. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luv2Fall 0 #41 September 16, 2003 QuoteQuotethe AR-15, to my understanding, isn't an assault rifle in that - - There's no "AUTO" to place the selector lever on. Actually, the original AR-15 was full auto... several of the characteristics you list can be found on olympic style target rifles and hunting rifles... many target rifles have adjustable stocks that can be called telescopic, and have muzzle breaks that would be called flash supressors (and why should that be a banned feature anyway?) And on the flip side, one of the first truely effective battle rifles has almost none of these features... bottom line is that if it LOOKS scary, then it must be an assault rifle (kinda like the obsenity test, I'll know it when I see it)... and that is a BS standard, IMO. J Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #42 September 16, 2003 I'm a bit excited that we might have a good choice, rather than having to pick the least of numerous bad choices. I too have been impressed by Clark's ability to speak intelligently, especially off the cuff. I haven't yet researched his position on topics of importance to me, but the fact that he seems intelligent bumps him up in front of several of his competitors, as well as his Republican opponent if he wins the nomination. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #43 September 16, 2003 QuoteI haven't yet researched his position on topics of importance to me Well, self-admittedly, neither has he. Hopefully he does turn out to be a good choice. He'd have the best chance of unseating Bush out of all the contenders just based on his military service. But I won't vote for someone "not so bad" just to unseat someone I don't like at all. I'd rather give my vote toa third party that represents me better. Even if they have no chance of winnning, the more votes a 3rd party gets, the more support and public funding they get for the next election. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites racer42 0 #44 September 16, 2003 Yeah, now this could make an for an interesting election.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #45 September 16, 2003 QuoteWhy don't you want the general public to have them? I never said that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #46 September 16, 2003 QuoteThere's a lot of folks that enjoy the weapons with no other use but to enjoy shooting them in the proper manner, or enjoy keeping them for their astetic and monitary value. Exactly. I used to know someone who had a very impressive collection of what could be considered assualt weapons. There's no way he would have used one of those weapons for anything other than controlled target shooting - a couple of them had never even been dry fired! He had other things available for home defense - things that he wouldn't have minded too much if the cops had to take away after being used in a defensive situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #47 September 17, 2003 Quotethings that he wouldn't have minded too much if the cops had to take away after being used in a defensive situation. He had a trained miget ninja didn't he? Damnit, I want one of those!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #48 September 17, 2003 Quotehttp://www.msnbc.com/news/967357.asp?cp1=1 He has quite a resume, but has no platform and has a "deer in the headlights" look. As much as I admire his service, he is not a politician, and it is clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. He is definitely no Eisenhower.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikkey 0 #49 September 17, 2003 I remember somebody saying that the fathers of the US constitution included the right to bear arms at a time when the most deadly weapon was a musket…. I wont try to discuss firearms with Americans. Seems to be a cultural difference between Americans and many other countries. I just hope that people know the crime statistics in regard to numbers of crimes per capita involving firearms, compared to countries that have strict gun control. But it is a choice Americans have to make.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #50 September 17, 2003 QuoteI remember somebody saying that the fathers of the US constitution included the right to bear arms at a time when the most deadly weapon was a musket…. I wont try to discuss firearms with Americans. Seems to be a cultural difference between Americans and many other countries. I just hope that people know the crime statistics in regard to numbers of crimes per capita involving firearms, compared to countries that have strict gun control. But it is a choice Americans have to make. This may have been an urban myth, but didn't gun related crimes skyrocket in Australia shortly after some serious gun control laws were put in place? I'm thinking around 1999? Anyway, yes, it is likely a cultural thing. There are still a few towns around in the US where the residents openly wear their guns in holsters. Want to know what their crime statistics are?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bmcd308 0 #33 September 16, 2003 I did not join the NRA until I was an adult. My beliefs are based on the fact that I was brought up in a home where I was taught to apply logic to decisions, rather than thinking of social goals that would be good to achieve (less crime), then supporting nonsensical approaches to achieving those goals (no black guns - they are scary scary scary, and I saw on a movie directed by a famous left winger that they are somehow different from the "good" guns, and it was a "documentary"). Do you believe that the current assault weapons ban has reduced or prevented crime? If so, by how much? ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GigaBuist 0 #34 September 16, 2003 Quote - Also, a rifle is considered an "assault weapon" if it can accept a detachable magazine, and possesses two or more of the following features: Folding or telescopic stock Pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the stock Bayonet mount Flash suppressor or threaded barrel Grenade launcher A lot of guns we own and enjoy are mistakenly placed into the "Assault Weapons" category based on looks alone................a real shame. Rhino, this is why there was a bit of contention over the definition of "assault rifle". To me it's any small calibre rifle that has the ability to fire in burst or full auto mode. Apparently the US government and it's citizens don't agree with me. That's why the rules Luv2Fall wrote about are above. Apparently that AK-47 sitting next to me is a sporting rifle right now. If I put a folding stock on it though -- watch out! It's now become a weapon too powerful for the American citizen to own. I can buy a folding stock for it... I can buy a tap and die set, I can buy a grenade launcher, etc... but I can't put them on the gun! It's a bit silly. It's not like we really "need" them. I'll admit that although I'm sure as heck not going to ever get rid of them. What scares me, and probably plenty of ther DZ.com people, is an elected official that doesn't trust me enough to have them. Why should it matter to them? I'm not a violent criminal. What's so scarey about peaceful citizens owning firearms? The idea of a president (or congress or senate) saying to the general population, "Ok, we control your lives now. Could you give us your guns now? You're not safe enough to handle them." is a bit well, odd, if you ask me. I was intelligent and responsible enough for this person to let me vote, but I can't have my guns? That's why I won't vote for somebody who holds such views. If they don't trust me why should I trust them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #35 September 16, 2003 QuoteMy beliefs are based on the fact that I was brought up in a home where I was taught to apply logic to decisions Same with mine. Yet you lump all people who aren't in favor of unlimited gun ownership is mis-informed anti-gunners. I was just illustrating the inaccuracies of such an approach. I'm more anti-crime than anti-gun, but in this country, the two have been linked for a long time. There are plenty of gun laws that make no sense, but also plenty of flaws in the logic of the general pro-gun lobby. Note that I didn't say you, I just said in general. However, this is an issue that has been beaten around the forums a nauseating number of times. I'll just leave it that we probably disagree... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #36 September 16, 2003 >>we probably disagree<< Nice understatement. Truce. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #37 September 16, 2003 QuoteJust the sound of cocking a shotgun is enough to scare away most intruders... I love that sound! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #38 September 16, 2003 QuoteHe is EXTREMELY well informed and intelligent.. ... and on the wrong side of allot of issues. He will NOT get my vote. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #39 September 16, 2003 Quotethe AR-15, to my understanding, isn't an assault rifle in that - - There's no "AUTO" to place the selector lever on. Actually, the original AR-15 was full auto... several of the characteristics you list can be found on olympic style target rifles and hunting rifles... many target rifles have adjustable stocks that can be called telescopic, and have muzzle breaks that would be called flash supressors (and why should that be a banned feature anyway?) And on the flip side, one of the first truely effective battle rifles has almost none of these features... bottom line is that if it LOOKS scary, then it must be an assault rifle (kinda like the obsenity test, I'll know it when I see it)... and that is a BS standard, IMO. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #40 September 16, 2003 QuoteSo, the ultimate weapon is mearly psychological? I mean, wouldn't it be much safer simply having a really good sound system and an MP3 of a shot gun cocking? Nope, that's not what I meant, quade. You're just being silly. That cocking sound will scare off most. If that doesn't work, they may hear the shotgun blast. Then again, you never hear the shot that kills you, is what I've been told. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #41 September 16, 2003 QuoteQuotethe AR-15, to my understanding, isn't an assault rifle in that - - There's no "AUTO" to place the selector lever on. Actually, the original AR-15 was full auto... several of the characteristics you list can be found on olympic style target rifles and hunting rifles... many target rifles have adjustable stocks that can be called telescopic, and have muzzle breaks that would be called flash supressors (and why should that be a banned feature anyway?) And on the flip side, one of the first truely effective battle rifles has almost none of these features... bottom line is that if it LOOKS scary, then it must be an assault rifle (kinda like the obsenity test, I'll know it when I see it)... and that is a BS standard, IMO. J Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #42 September 16, 2003 I'm a bit excited that we might have a good choice, rather than having to pick the least of numerous bad choices. I too have been impressed by Clark's ability to speak intelligently, especially off the cuff. I haven't yet researched his position on topics of importance to me, but the fact that he seems intelligent bumps him up in front of several of his competitors, as well as his Republican opponent if he wins the nomination. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #43 September 16, 2003 QuoteI haven't yet researched his position on topics of importance to me Well, self-admittedly, neither has he. Hopefully he does turn out to be a good choice. He'd have the best chance of unseating Bush out of all the contenders just based on his military service. But I won't vote for someone "not so bad" just to unseat someone I don't like at all. I'd rather give my vote toa third party that represents me better. Even if they have no chance of winnning, the more votes a 3rd party gets, the more support and public funding they get for the next election. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #44 September 16, 2003 Yeah, now this could make an for an interesting election.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #45 September 16, 2003 QuoteWhy don't you want the general public to have them? I never said that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #46 September 16, 2003 QuoteThere's a lot of folks that enjoy the weapons with no other use but to enjoy shooting them in the proper manner, or enjoy keeping them for their astetic and monitary value. Exactly. I used to know someone who had a very impressive collection of what could be considered assualt weapons. There's no way he would have used one of those weapons for anything other than controlled target shooting - a couple of them had never even been dry fired! He had other things available for home defense - things that he wouldn't have minded too much if the cops had to take away after being used in a defensive situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #47 September 17, 2003 Quotethings that he wouldn't have minded too much if the cops had to take away after being used in a defensive situation. He had a trained miget ninja didn't he? Damnit, I want one of those!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #48 September 17, 2003 Quotehttp://www.msnbc.com/news/967357.asp?cp1=1 He has quite a resume, but has no platform and has a "deer in the headlights" look. As much as I admire his service, he is not a politician, and it is clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. He is definitely no Eisenhower.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #49 September 17, 2003 I remember somebody saying that the fathers of the US constitution included the right to bear arms at a time when the most deadly weapon was a musket…. I wont try to discuss firearms with Americans. Seems to be a cultural difference between Americans and many other countries. I just hope that people know the crime statistics in regard to numbers of crimes per capita involving firearms, compared to countries that have strict gun control. But it is a choice Americans have to make.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #50 September 17, 2003 QuoteI remember somebody saying that the fathers of the US constitution included the right to bear arms at a time when the most deadly weapon was a musket…. I wont try to discuss firearms with Americans. Seems to be a cultural difference between Americans and many other countries. I just hope that people know the crime statistics in regard to numbers of crimes per capita involving firearms, compared to countries that have strict gun control. But it is a choice Americans have to make. This may have been an urban myth, but didn't gun related crimes skyrocket in Australia shortly after some serious gun control laws were put in place? I'm thinking around 1999? Anyway, yes, it is likely a cultural thing. There are still a few towns around in the US where the residents openly wear their guns in holsters. Want to know what their crime statistics are?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
