Luna 0 #1 October 2, 2003 Okay, I've read that there was some firewalking last year at the boogie. I've just found out that 1) I'm going to the boogie this year and 2) I am not going to get my fix of firewalking in November as planned (I've done 6 so far), so was wondering if this will be repeated this year, and any details on how it was conducted. Also, if you need someone to help with it, I've "worked" 4 of them (the ones I do are very structured and organized) and so I know a lot about how to set it up, etc. and also a lot about the mental preparation to do one (were there a lot of first-timers last year?), so I'd be happy to help organize one for this year. I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #2 October 2, 2003 Quotethe ones I do are very structured and organized Then I think you may want to pass on this one as it was a spontaneous fire walking as were the participants. They did however prepare for several hours by ingesting adult beverages"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #3 October 3, 2003 What i saw was more like fire stumbling, drunks with shoes or sandals dancing through the fire pit, fast enough to not get badily burned. No zen just alcohol+. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #4 October 3, 2003 I had been designated a keeper by the time this went off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 37 #5 October 3, 2003 QuoteAlso, if you need someone to help with it, I've "worked" 4 of them (the ones I do are very structured and organized) and so I know a lot about how to set it up, etc. and also a lot about the mental preparation to do one (were there a lot of first-timers last year?), so I'd be happy to help organize one for this year. Geez O Pete, you never know what kind of hidden skills are lurking in people. I swear in all my life I've never had a friend who was knowledgeable about setting up fire walks! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #6 October 3, 2003 No mental preparation is necessary. Just be nervous and have sweaty feet. Of course, that assumes the fire walk area is generally smooth enough to walk on barefoot, which is a separate issue from the heat. A makeshift skydiver pit might not be the best place to go barefoot, fire or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wingnut 0 #7 October 3, 2003 i think they are talking about fire walking bare footed as wendy and sky did.... no mental prep involved in doing it with footwear on!!!!! ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #8 October 3, 2003 QuoteNo mental preparation is necessary. Just be nervous and have sweaty feet. Of course, that assumes the fire walk area is generally smooth enough to walk on barefoot, which is a separate issue from the heat. A makeshift skydiver pit might not be the best place to go barefoot, fire or not. well.... the night of the 300way and the first night at the holiday boogie, the rake was accessible and facilitated a nice stroll through the coals. the second time at holiday boogie, the rake was missing but the beer truck was full and i laid a bed of embers and a few pieces of angle iron. luckily for me wendy strolled on through like the champ she is and i nailed the hot iron like the chump i is. i was already medicated so enjoyed the rest of the night but it kept me out of the fire for a hile. lol. sweaty feet?!?! i think not. that would be a real quick trip to a real good burn. water gets hot real fast. dry feets is best. and yes, i intend to spread the coals at least a few times this winter. you are welcome.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #9 October 3, 2003 I'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #10 October 3, 2003 QuoteI'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! yes maam, littlemiss. the rake is good for that. scooping and spreading with a piece of plywood wasn't my best idea that night. btw. history. middle of december last year i were at the 300way. one night while getting food the place was jammed with people and i saw the end of a booth open, sat down and proceeded to mind my own business. the peeps at the table were having none of that and we started drinkin and talking. talkin about talkin to lizards and popping peyote not necessarily in that order. talkin more. turns out one of my new friends, mick, was a firefighter. was that is until a burning house fell on him and broke his back. we got to talkin about fire and wood and such and it came around to the actual thermodynamics of burned wood and firewalking. he looked me in the eye and said he wanted to walk the coals with me. even drunk, i took a few seconds and then reticently told him that i would be happy to follow him. and he said 'no. i am going to follow you'. something passed between us there and i can still feel it. well, i didn't see mick again. the next day the 300way completed and there was some mild nignoggery around the fire and i was thinking about the conversation i had with him and it felt like he was there with me. i got the rake and started pulling coals. having never done it before i just went with what seemed right. got a few odd looks and comments and 'yeah, right's and at that point, intellectually, i had to agree. but it was going to happen. i was emotionally drained and felt like i had to do _something_ and this seemed as good, if not better, than anything. i have to admit that i kinda cheated and did a 'test' step, just one foot in the fire. but after that i understood. it felt liberating to calmly walk through glowing embers. mick wasnt there physically to follow me, but i felt him. MARK on the other hand WAS there physically. lol. and he did take off his shoes and walk those coals. i know it wasnt about me, mark, but that really helped me out that night. blah blah blah.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #11 October 3, 2003 QuoteI'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! I'm still bummed i missed the fire walking last year. I was too "busy" at the time, but this year, bring it on!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites whocares 0 #12 October 3, 2003 Try it with no shoes next time. Big difference.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #13 October 3, 2003 Sweaty feet are the key. There was a thread on your favorite geeky science phenomenon, and it covered the Lidenfrost effect, which is the governing principal of the fire walk. Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #14 October 3, 2003 Quote Sweaty feet are the key. There was a thread on your favorite geeky science phenomenon, and it covered the Lidenfrost effect, which is the governing principal of the fire walk. Check it out. Clicky. Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #15 October 3, 2003 Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #16 October 3, 2003 There are also differing theories. Some say dry feet, some say sweaty. Neither rely on mental powers. It may also depend on the length of the walk, the temperature of the coals/rocks, etc. People have done it successfully with both wet and dry feet, and been injured with both. So I suppose you really take your chances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #17 October 3, 2003 I think if you look at your feet in the mirror for 20 minutes every day and say "i will not burn my feet" that will help. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #18 October 3, 2003 QuoteI think if you look at your feet in the mirror for 20 minutes every day and say "i will not burn my feet" that will help. As long as you don't have hot coals near the mirror, you're probably right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #19 October 3, 2003 rut roh. hey dave, whens the last time you put your feet in a coalbed? with wet feet or dry feet. or maybe both? i can't speak for other's experience but in the 20 odd times i have done this (it doesnt get old. hehe) i have had both wet and dry feet. the only time i suffered a serious burn is when i stepped on a slab of orange steel. when my feet were sweaty it HURT. when dry it did not. there's my experiment and my subjective proof. maybe i am a freak and my experience is different than others? oops, did i say 'maybe im a freak'? lol. no matter. it seems that those who DO firewalk appear to dismiss the leidenfrost effect and state that dry feet are the key. some even express the concern that wet feet may cause embers to cling to the skin and cause burns. i firewalk and i agree. below are a few quotes from the above google. i understand the thermal aspects of handling coals and routinely reach into fires to handle glowing embers with my hands. and occasionally others are fascinated enough to try as well, without injury. i dont liken it to a parlor trick or attention getter. even with an intellectual knowledge that i am not going to get burned there is a visceral, inbred fear of fire in most of us. facing that fear down with an ember in your hand, albeit like a hot potato, or a 10 foot bed of coals under your feet never fails to bolster a sense of personal power over fear. fear is a survival tool that most never question and therefore allow to run rampant. blahblahblah. sorry. *** The feet are actually in contact with the embers less than half a second during each step; this is the secret of the firewalk; and provided the feet are completely dry and free from perspiration, so that no burning ashes adhere to them during the time each foot is in the air, the risks of burning are relatively small .... Steadiness in walking is an advantage in order to avoid remaining with the weight on one foot for too long ...." There are a number of theories which have been put forward to explain firewalking. Any or all may be the explanation for a particular event. o The dry wood coals used by firewalkers conduct heat very poorly. The coal itself may be very hot but it will not transfer that heat to something touching it. o The coals are a very uneven surface, and the actual surface area of foot touching the coals is very small. Hence the conduction of heat is even slower. o Firewalkers do not spend very much time on the coals, and they keep moving. Jan Willem Nienhuys adds that about 1 second total contact time per foot seems on the safe side. o Blood is a good conductor of heat. What heat does get through is quickly conducted away from the soles of the feet. o The "Leidenfrost" effect may play a part. This occurs when a cold, wet object (like a foot) touches a hot, dry object (like a burning coal). The water vaporises, creating a barrier of steam between the hot and cold objects. Hence the two objects do not actually touch and evaporation from the cold object is much slower than might otherwise be expected. Since steam is a relatively poor conductor of heat the foot does not get burned. Jearl Walker, of Scientific American's "The Amateur Scientist" column, explains the Leidenfrost effect in the August 1977 issue; he walked across coals unharmed and attributes this to the Leidenfrost effect. Other scientists believe that the Leidenfrost effect is unimportant in firewalking. Some skeptics have challenged firewalkers to stand on hot metal plates instead of coals. Others have pointed out that making such a challenge in the belief that the firewalker would be seriously hurt is of dubious morality. namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Luna 0 #20 October 3, 2003 Quotehey dave, whens the last time you put your feet in a coalbed? with wet feet or dry feet. or maybe both? i can't speak for other's experience but in the 20 odd times i have done this (it doesnt get old. hehe) i have had both wet and dry feet. the only time i suffered a serious burn is when i stepped on a slab of orange steel. when my feet were sweaty it HURT. when dry it did not. there's my experiment and my subjective proof. maybe i am a freak and my experience is different than others? oops, did i say 'maybe im a freak'? lol. no matter. 20 times? I'm so jealous! Actually, in my six times, the only serious burns I got were on the 40 foot walk that was kickin' hot, and I totally lost my focus and concentration right before I went. Bad mistake. It hurt from the first step, but I kept it up all 40 feet, still going at a normal firewalk pace, so I attribute little validity to the idea that it "works" because your feet are in contact with the coals for only a very short time. I still maintain that the proper state of mind is the key, but that is just my opinion, albeit based on some good experiences, with good outcomes and bad. And I have also walked both wet and dry. One interesting note about coals sticking and causing burns. Where I usually firewalk, they have someone when you stop (and there are 2 people there to stop you) who sprays your feet with a hose, especially aiming between the toes. You also end up standing on a pile of sod that has been soaked by the hose spraying the feet of everyone before you, so sticking coals are not much an issue. Of course, where I do mine, there is someone who could theoretically be sued if someone were to get seriously hurt (yes there are waivers, but still...), so they take many extra precautions. I'm looking forward to walking in Eloy. Just because I haven't done a spontaneous, un-structured one before doesn't mean I'm not game to do one. I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,584 #21 October 4, 2003 QuoteThey did however prepare for several hours by ingesting adult beverages Scot, ol' buddy ol' bean, I can assure you I was not particularly lubricated. 1-2 beers. Really. So no, they didn't all prepare. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #22 October 4, 2003 Quote in the 20 odd times i have done this Are you logging them and having them signed off by a fellow fire walker? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skymama 37 #5 October 3, 2003 QuoteAlso, if you need someone to help with it, I've "worked" 4 of them (the ones I do are very structured and organized) and so I know a lot about how to set it up, etc. and also a lot about the mental preparation to do one (were there a lot of first-timers last year?), so I'd be happy to help organize one for this year. Geez O Pete, you never know what kind of hidden skills are lurking in people. I swear in all my life I've never had a friend who was knowledgeable about setting up fire walks! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #6 October 3, 2003 No mental preparation is necessary. Just be nervous and have sweaty feet. Of course, that assumes the fire walk area is generally smooth enough to walk on barefoot, which is a separate issue from the heat. A makeshift skydiver pit might not be the best place to go barefoot, fire or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #7 October 3, 2003 i think they are talking about fire walking bare footed as wendy and sky did.... no mental prep involved in doing it with footwear on!!!!! ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #8 October 3, 2003 QuoteNo mental preparation is necessary. Just be nervous and have sweaty feet. Of course, that assumes the fire walk area is generally smooth enough to walk on barefoot, which is a separate issue from the heat. A makeshift skydiver pit might not be the best place to go barefoot, fire or not. well.... the night of the 300way and the first night at the holiday boogie, the rake was accessible and facilitated a nice stroll through the coals. the second time at holiday boogie, the rake was missing but the beer truck was full and i laid a bed of embers and a few pieces of angle iron. luckily for me wendy strolled on through like the champ she is and i nailed the hot iron like the chump i is. i was already medicated so enjoyed the rest of the night but it kept me out of the fire for a hile. lol. sweaty feet?!?! i think not. that would be a real quick trip to a real good burn. water gets hot real fast. dry feets is best. and yes, i intend to spread the coals at least a few times this winter. you are welcome.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #9 October 3, 2003 I'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #10 October 3, 2003 QuoteI'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! yes maam, littlemiss. the rake is good for that. scooping and spreading with a piece of plywood wasn't my best idea that night. btw. history. middle of december last year i were at the 300way. one night while getting food the place was jammed with people and i saw the end of a booth open, sat down and proceeded to mind my own business. the peeps at the table were having none of that and we started drinkin and talking. talkin about talkin to lizards and popping peyote not necessarily in that order. talkin more. turns out one of my new friends, mick, was a firefighter. was that is until a burning house fell on him and broke his back. we got to talkin about fire and wood and such and it came around to the actual thermodynamics of burned wood and firewalking. he looked me in the eye and said he wanted to walk the coals with me. even drunk, i took a few seconds and then reticently told him that i would be happy to follow him. and he said 'no. i am going to follow you'. something passed between us there and i can still feel it. well, i didn't see mick again. the next day the 300way completed and there was some mild nignoggery around the fire and i was thinking about the conversation i had with him and it felt like he was there with me. i got the rake and started pulling coals. having never done it before i just went with what seemed right. got a few odd looks and comments and 'yeah, right's and at that point, intellectually, i had to agree. but it was going to happen. i was emotionally drained and felt like i had to do _something_ and this seemed as good, if not better, than anything. i have to admit that i kinda cheated and did a 'test' step, just one foot in the fire. but after that i understood. it felt liberating to calmly walk through glowing embers. mick wasnt there physically to follow me, but i felt him. MARK on the other hand WAS there physically. lol. and he did take off his shoes and walk those coals. i know it wasnt about me, mark, but that really helped me out that night. blah blah blah.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #11 October 3, 2003 QuoteI'd just suggest removing the nails from the fire this year! I'm still bummed i missed the fire walking last year. I was too "busy" at the time, but this year, bring it on!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whocares 0 #12 October 3, 2003 Try it with no shoes next time. Big difference.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #13 October 3, 2003 Sweaty feet are the key. There was a thread on your favorite geeky science phenomenon, and it covered the Lidenfrost effect, which is the governing principal of the fire walk. Check it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #14 October 3, 2003 Quote Sweaty feet are the key. There was a thread on your favorite geeky science phenomenon, and it covered the Lidenfrost effect, which is the governing principal of the fire walk. Check it out. Clicky. Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #16 October 3, 2003 There are also differing theories. Some say dry feet, some say sweaty. Neither rely on mental powers. It may also depend on the length of the walk, the temperature of the coals/rocks, etc. People have done it successfully with both wet and dry feet, and been injured with both. So I suppose you really take your chances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #17 October 3, 2003 I think if you look at your feet in the mirror for 20 minutes every day and say "i will not burn my feet" that will help. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #18 October 3, 2003 QuoteI think if you look at your feet in the mirror for 20 minutes every day and say "i will not burn my feet" that will help. As long as you don't have hot coals near the mirror, you're probably right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #19 October 3, 2003 rut roh. hey dave, whens the last time you put your feet in a coalbed? with wet feet or dry feet. or maybe both? i can't speak for other's experience but in the 20 odd times i have done this (it doesnt get old. hehe) i have had both wet and dry feet. the only time i suffered a serious burn is when i stepped on a slab of orange steel. when my feet were sweaty it HURT. when dry it did not. there's my experiment and my subjective proof. maybe i am a freak and my experience is different than others? oops, did i say 'maybe im a freak'? lol. no matter. it seems that those who DO firewalk appear to dismiss the leidenfrost effect and state that dry feet are the key. some even express the concern that wet feet may cause embers to cling to the skin and cause burns. i firewalk and i agree. below are a few quotes from the above google. i understand the thermal aspects of handling coals and routinely reach into fires to handle glowing embers with my hands. and occasionally others are fascinated enough to try as well, without injury. i dont liken it to a parlor trick or attention getter. even with an intellectual knowledge that i am not going to get burned there is a visceral, inbred fear of fire in most of us. facing that fear down with an ember in your hand, albeit like a hot potato, or a 10 foot bed of coals under your feet never fails to bolster a sense of personal power over fear. fear is a survival tool that most never question and therefore allow to run rampant. blahblahblah. sorry. *** The feet are actually in contact with the embers less than half a second during each step; this is the secret of the firewalk; and provided the feet are completely dry and free from perspiration, so that no burning ashes adhere to them during the time each foot is in the air, the risks of burning are relatively small .... Steadiness in walking is an advantage in order to avoid remaining with the weight on one foot for too long ...." There are a number of theories which have been put forward to explain firewalking. Any or all may be the explanation for a particular event. o The dry wood coals used by firewalkers conduct heat very poorly. The coal itself may be very hot but it will not transfer that heat to something touching it. o The coals are a very uneven surface, and the actual surface area of foot touching the coals is very small. Hence the conduction of heat is even slower. o Firewalkers do not spend very much time on the coals, and they keep moving. Jan Willem Nienhuys adds that about 1 second total contact time per foot seems on the safe side. o Blood is a good conductor of heat. What heat does get through is quickly conducted away from the soles of the feet. o The "Leidenfrost" effect may play a part. This occurs when a cold, wet object (like a foot) touches a hot, dry object (like a burning coal). The water vaporises, creating a barrier of steam between the hot and cold objects. Hence the two objects do not actually touch and evaporation from the cold object is much slower than might otherwise be expected. Since steam is a relatively poor conductor of heat the foot does not get burned. Jearl Walker, of Scientific American's "The Amateur Scientist" column, explains the Leidenfrost effect in the August 1977 issue; he walked across coals unharmed and attributes this to the Leidenfrost effect. Other scientists believe that the Leidenfrost effect is unimportant in firewalking. Some skeptics have challenged firewalkers to stand on hot metal plates instead of coals. Others have pointed out that making such a challenge in the belief that the firewalker would be seriously hurt is of dubious morality. namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luna 0 #20 October 3, 2003 Quotehey dave, whens the last time you put your feet in a coalbed? with wet feet or dry feet. or maybe both? i can't speak for other's experience but in the 20 odd times i have done this (it doesnt get old. hehe) i have had both wet and dry feet. the only time i suffered a serious burn is when i stepped on a slab of orange steel. when my feet were sweaty it HURT. when dry it did not. there's my experiment and my subjective proof. maybe i am a freak and my experience is different than others? oops, did i say 'maybe im a freak'? lol. no matter. 20 times? I'm so jealous! Actually, in my six times, the only serious burns I got were on the 40 foot walk that was kickin' hot, and I totally lost my focus and concentration right before I went. Bad mistake. It hurt from the first step, but I kept it up all 40 feet, still going at a normal firewalk pace, so I attribute little validity to the idea that it "works" because your feet are in contact with the coals for only a very short time. I still maintain that the proper state of mind is the key, but that is just my opinion, albeit based on some good experiences, with good outcomes and bad. And I have also walked both wet and dry. One interesting note about coals sticking and causing burns. Where I usually firewalk, they have someone when you stop (and there are 2 people there to stop you) who sprays your feet with a hose, especially aiming between the toes. You also end up standing on a pile of sod that has been soaked by the hose spraying the feet of everyone before you, so sticking coals are not much an issue. Of course, where I do mine, there is someone who could theoretically be sued if someone were to get seriously hurt (yes there are waivers, but still...), so they take many extra precautions. I'm looking forward to walking in Eloy. Just because I haven't done a spontaneous, un-structured one before doesn't mean I'm not game to do one. I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #21 October 4, 2003 QuoteThey did however prepare for several hours by ingesting adult beverages Scot, ol' buddy ol' bean, I can assure you I was not particularly lubricated. 1-2 beers. Really. So no, they didn't all prepare. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #22 October 4, 2003 Quote in the 20 odd times i have done this Are you logging them and having them signed off by a fellow fire walker? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
