If You're 18, Does That Make You An Adult?

[Casch 0]

Why is it that the age of 18 is the line that divides childhood and adulthood? Some people say that just because you are 16, you are not capable of making the decision to jump. Whaaaat? I've known 16 year olds with the mindset of 30 year old and vice-versa. I think it is ultimately up to the parent to decide if their kid is capable of making that decision, not the kids age. Age, like jump #'s is a flawed way to decide responsibility. A good parent should know if their kid has the mindset, the responsibility, the capability to make their own decisions, regardless of age.

This is just a loosly based oppionion of mine to stimulate a conversation as I've not really heard much conversation on the matter.

[Casie 0]

I agree, age should not be a factor. It's all in the maturity level of the person.

~Porn Kitty
WARNING: Goldschlager causes extreme emotional outbursts!

[AggieDave 6]

Nope, it makes you legally responsable though. I know a good number of 18yr olds that were adults and a good number of 25+ yr olds (specifically thinking of one that is in his mid 30's) that most definately isn't an adult.

Why can't a 16 yr old jump? Not due to the adult or not an adult, but in Texas it comes to liability. The "waivers" are actually a contract and not waivers (in Texas atleast), since it is illegal to sign you rights away. It is a release of liability contract that says, basically, that no matter what, you understand that skydiving is dangerous and you won't hold the DZ accountable for any accidents. You can still sue if you want, but you will pay all legal fees for all parties involved, etc.

In Texas, a person under the age of 18 can not enter into a legal contract, which is what the "waiver" is, thus they can't do it. No one else, including parents can sign for this either, since no other individual can enter a legal contract on behalf of another person. If a parent did sign, the kid jumped then got hurt, ANY other living relative could sue and the release of liability contract would not be valid, thus the DZ would be screwed.

Make sense?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 273]

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Why is it that the age of 18 is the line that divides childhood and adulthood?

For skydiving the age of 18 is the dividing line because in the world of lawyers and lawsuits 18 is the age at which someone can sign contracts for themselves. For the same reason a 16 year old can't get a credit card without having an "adult" also on the account - they may get a card with their name on it but it's the "adult" who is ultimately responsible for the balance due.

I agree that age does not automatically indicate maturity or lack thereof.

[Fast 0]

I agree. If we didn't live in a society that sued every time there was a single stich of incident then more people who are 16 would be able to jump if they were mentally prepared for it.

It all boils down to a DZs ability to stay in business if someone jumping brain locks and dies. (or for whatever reason)

If the laws made it easier for a parent to sign away almost every legal right that thier child has then that would do it too. However I think personally that its in the best interest of the individual that a parent can't sign away most rights.

hmm...

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Keith 0]

True enough, I can't disagree with anything you've said, however, the age limit is a legal "marker" where legal liability is passed from the parent to the "child." A parent can't sign away a childs rights. In most cases a child can not be bound by legal contracts, therefore the age requirement. But I may be stating the obvious.

(edited to correct spelling and sentence construction errors)

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Casch 0]

I completely understand the legal aspect of it, I'm just curious about peoples personal opinions. Some think that unless you are 18 or older you are psychologically incapable of making certain decisions.

[QuickDraw 0]

I have always thought that the day you can legally fight & die for your country is the day you become classed as an adult.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[lawrocket 3]

Um, this is a policy decision made by the government. It's kinda like playing odds here.

On a big way, you've got one more spot to fill, and there are two guys - one a 22 jump kid and another with 3,500 jumps. Odds are that 3,500 jumper will be more equipped to deal with it than the 22 jump kid. Imagine you are the organizer and there are now a couple hundred A-license holders. One or two have what it takes for this jump. Do you want to spend the next couple of weeks interviewing every one of them? No. You'd take the 3,500 jump person with some slight interviewing.

Maybe one kid has 10 hours of tunnel time last week. Might make a difference. But a good general rule is that jump numbers pay off.

Same with govt. It's their decision, and the tough noogies doctrine applies.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Casch 0]

Comparing a guy with 22 jumps to a guy with 3500 is ridiculous! A closer comparison to this topic would be trying to choose between a guy with 22 jumps and 30 jumps. Becomes a bit more difficult eh?

I don't think any sane person on earth would choose the guy with 22 jumps over 3500

And again, I do understand the legal side, legally there needs to be a solid line.

[lawrocket 3]

Thank you for pointing that out.

The point is, when there are so many differences, it simply cannot be evaluated efficiently. Therefore, there must be some bright line rule.

And, my guess is that there are some 22 jump folks out there (not me!!!) who can outperform others with vastly more jump experience.

I need to visit a tunnel!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AggieDave 6]

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I need to visit a tunnel

There's some nice ones in NYC and one really kickass one that goes between England and France...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[smiles 0]

Where I jump in Canada tandems are made with parents signature and regulations are that child must fit in harness well. Most are atleast 10 yrs. old before that is possible.

SMiles

[juanesky 0]

This is something that has to do with presumption of life experience, rather than psychological maturity.

Since no one logs their life (at least the vast majority), it is easier and safe somewhat, for anyone with a drivers license, to be catalogued as an adult by the age. It is right there on your ID. No need for phsycological eval just the base assumption of experience.

They are still kids, but done with biological growth for the most part. Since they are allowed to drive since age 16, 2 years is not bad for the time they give them to become experienced.....

Just my 2 cts

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkydiverRick 0]

A good parent should know if their kid has the mindset, the responsibility, the capability to make their own decisions, regardless of age.

[Guest]

I tend to agree. At age 14, a male Roman citizen could own slaves and serve in the military; e.g., he had all the responsibilities of a full adult.

Our culture has a long adolescence; howver, I think that is due to the overwhelming complexity of modern society, rather than chronological factors.

I grant you, we're not Neolithic hunter-gatherers anymore; yet, our primordial selves are with us, just as we all carry bits of ancient DNA. The veneer of civilization is far thinner than most wish to believe.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Casch 0]

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Who determines that they are a good parent?

There's the rub...

[WrongWay 0]

18 year olds are generally immature and still don't know what they're talking about, trust me. While they have the right to make decisions, and they are more responsible than, say, a 16 year old, they are still far from being adults and making any kind of adult decision. Just my $.02!!

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[skybytch 273]

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they are still far from being adults and making any kind of adult decision.

Depends on the 18 year old. My kid is 19 now and doing far better at making adult decisions than I did at his age. I've known a few other 18-20 year olds that have their heads on straight too.

[Casch 0]

Hey watch it now! I'm 18 Don't dig on us too bad

[WrongWay 0]

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they are still far from being adults and making any kind of adult decision.

Depends on the 18 year old. My kid is 19 now and doing far better at making adult decisions than I did at his age. I've known a few other 18-20 year olds that have their heads on straight too.

Good point. It really does depend on the person. Casch, no dissin pal, you're cool with me!!!

I'm just stating that some are more mature than others, and while some can make more adult decisions than I can, as a general consensus (christ I cant spell) its impossible to find a standard age for which "adult" level has been reached.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.