"I Admired Hitler" - Schwarzenegger

[billvon 3,111]

>Despite ANY actual facts or evidence . . .

You mean besides videotapes, interviews, news reports from years back, and testimonies from women he assaulted.

>that is all the anti-Arnold campaign can do.

Whereas the pro-arnold campaigners can try desperately to supress any facts that might tarnish his carefully-manufactured image.

>1) Arnold had a good name before this campaign.

You thought he was a good guy? I thought he was an actor and a bodybuilder, neither of which really says anything about his goodness or badness.

>2) People are suddenly "surfacing" to bad-mouth Arnold.

The videotapes have existed for 10-20 years.

>3) There have been no reports of Arnold being power-hungry.

Agreed. I don't think he is; he really wants to help California. I think that can be said of pretty much all the candidates; few politicans are really so evil that they have nefarious plots to take over and make everyone's lives miserable. (Unless, of course, you wear a tinfoil hat, in which case they all are.)

[cloudseeker2001 0]

I would give up damn near anything to have been at the Nuremburg stadium that night to see and hear Hitlers speech and Albret Speer's lighting marvel! Amazing slice of history.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

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Standards are different for an actor and a governor. Actors, in general, don't change state laws. Do you care if the guy who lives three doors down from you gets drunk every afternoon on his patio? How about a pilot flying the plane you're riding in? Different situations, different standards.

Um, not really. Didn't we hear about Pee-Wee Herman playing with himself in a theater? He wasn't running for office. Neither was Gary Coleman (at the time) when he was is trouble for hitting a fan. Dennis Rodman never ran for office... we hear plenty about him. Stories are not held back from us just because someone is not running for office.

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Well, he said exactly that - that in terminator 3, it was awesome that he got to stick a woman's head in the toilet. How often do you get to do that? (he asked rhetorically.) His own words. Is he insane?

Ok, um, first, when did he say this, and second, when did he connect that with Huffington? In other words, I don't remember him saying anything about toilets during the debate (I may have missed it). But, I was watching when he mentioned that he had a role for Huffington in T4. To show how poor the logic is.... how often do they kill people the same way in a sequel as they do the previous film? In other words, if he slammed someone in a toilet in T3, there is no way he would do it it T4. If this is what he had wanted, he would have said that he "wished" he had cast her in T3. But, he did not say that.

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So rich politicial candidates want to help California; poor ones are just trying to make money? That's a stretch.

That's not what I said. However, since you mention it, ya, I do believe many politicians are very self-serving. Personally, I am astonished that someone with Arnold's fame and fortune wants to run for public office. It doesn't pay much and couldn't possibly be very worthwhile when people spend their time attacking you and blaming you for the states ills. If I were Arnold, I'd be spending my spare time at Club Med.

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But it's really up to the people here. If they want an action hero as governor they can choose that. And if they do, they will deserve the leadership they receive.

Speaking of stretches... who says we will get "the leadership we deserve" out of an action hero, just because he was an actor? Ronald Reagan did a fine job. Nixon, on the other hand, didn't have much of an acting career, but wow, he stunk as president. Someone's previous career often has little to do with the job they will do in office. He won't be running the show by himself. Obviously, this is how Bush gets by. And, Arnold won't just get by. But, time will surely tell.

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You mean besides videotapes, interviews, news reports from years back, and testimonies from women he assaulted.

Okay, maybe I am out of the loop here, but WHAT videotapes? They have videotapes of him assaulting women? Can you be a little more specific as to the date and content of these tapes? Are there any testimonials from women prior to this year? Are there interviews where people are talking about what a bastard he is? I'd like to see some kind of evidence of this. I'm not saying they don't exist... I would just like this claim substantiated.

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Whereas the pro-arnold campaigners can try desperately to supress any facts that might tarnish his carefully-manufactured image.

Can you name a single instance where the Arnold campaign tried to supress a single fact, story, or "videotape"?????

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You thought he was a good guy? I thought he was an actor and a bodybuilder, neither of which really says anything about his goodness or badness.

Well, let's see. Since I have never heard of him getting arrested, cheating on his wife, or getting arrested, that goes a long way with me. Sure, the fact that he has never been arrested for anything just means he was never caught, which doesn't make him a good guy in and of itself. But he is active in the community, passing measures to help with after school programs (the fact that they were not enacted is not his fault). Look, the guy was like Kobe Bryant to me. Prior to now, I had never heard anything bad about either one of them. Along those lines, FREE KOBE!

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The videotapes have existed for 10-20 years.

WHAT VIDEOS?? There are videos of people bad mouthing Arnold? I watch the news constantly... and have seen NOTHING!

[billvon 3,111]

>Um, not really. Didn't we hear about Pee-Wee Herman playing with himself in a theater?

Did you really care that Pee-Wee Herman was playing with himself in a theater? Would you care if Bush did that? Like I said, standards are different for different people in different positions.

>Stories are not held back from us just because someone is not running for office.

You're right about that. The primary criteria for running news in many venues is what sells i.e. what we buy.

>Ok, um, first, when did he say this . . .

From Entertainment Weekly earlier this year. A direct quote - "How many times do you get away with this -- to take a woman, grab her upside down, and bury her face in a toilet bowl? I wanted to have something floating in there."

> In other words, if he slammed someone in a toilet in T3, there is no way
> he would do it it T4.

I agree, but I don't think that claiming that he wanted to (fictionally) kill her in a different way makes it much better.

>Speaking of stretches... who says we will get "the leadership we
>deserve" out of an action hero, just because he was an actor?

I believe that people do what they have done in the past, rather than what they say they will do. Arnold is an accomplished Hollywood action hero; that's the experience he will bring to the governor's office. You will surely get the leadership you vote for; that's the purpose of a vote. And whatever leadership we get, we will deserve.

[billvon 3,111]

>Okay, maybe I am out of the loop here, but WHAT videotapes? They
>have videotapes of him assaulting women? Can you be a little more
> specific as to the date and content of these tapes?

Attached is a frame grab from one of the videos, in which he grabs an interviewer's ass. It was in 2000 in an interview for British TV. The owner of the video (Carlton Video) will not release the full video.

> Are there any testimonials from women prior to this year?

There are testimonies from Arnold himself, such as in a 1977 interview for Oui magazine. From smokinggun:

AUGUST 27--Arnold Schwarzenegger once told a magazine interviewer about participating in an orgy with other bodybuilders, noting that "everybody jumped on" the woman involved and "took her upstairs where we all got together." The California Republican added that not every muscleman participated in the gang bang, "just the guys who can fuck in front of other guys. Not everybody can do that. Some think that they don't have a big-enough cock, so they can't get a hard-on."

To be fair, perhaps the woman consented to be "jumped on" and "taken upstairs." Some others:

March 2001, Premiere:

The tabloid press got a nice Christmas present late last year when Arnold Schwarzenegger tore through a day of publicity work in London, promoting his latest film, The 6th Day, which had just opened there. In less than 24 hours, the star was said to have attempted to, as high school boys used to say, cop a little feel from three different female talk-show hosts. The level of consternation expressed by those who received this hands-on treatment from the hulking, Austrian-born international superstar ranged from none whatsoever (Denise Van Outen of The Big Breakfast invites her guests to lie on a bed with her and, hence, probably has a rather elastic definition of what constitutes inappropriate behavior) to irked (on tape, Celebrity interviewer Melanie Sykes looks a little thrown off after Arnold gives her a very definite squeeze on the rib cage, directly under her right breast) to, finally, righteously indignant. Anna Richardson of Big Screen claims that after the cameras stopped rolling for her interview segment, Schwarzenegger, apparently attempting to ascertain whether Richardson’s breasts were real, tweaked her nipple and then laughed at her objections. “I left the room quite shaken,” she says. “What was more upsetting was that his people rushed to protect him and scapegoated me, and not one person came to apologize afterward.”


>Well, let's see. Since I have never heard of him getting arrested,
>cheating on his wife, or getting arrested, that goes a long way with me.

He's admitted to smoking pot and hash ("I inhaled, exhaled, everything) but I agree he's never been arrested for it, which is good.

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Okay, so Arnold is not an angel. So what? Neither was Gary Condit. And yet, isn't he still in office? To contrast, Condit lied. (By the way, I don't LIKE Gary Condit). Clinton lied plenty, too. Wasn't he the one who said he "didn't inhale," and "never touched that woman, Miss Lewinsky." (is that quote correct... I'm not sure... but you get the idea)

My point is that at least Arnold is honest. I don't know him, so I can't vouch for what he did or did not do. But he acknowledges his errors. Many of these situations involve allegations from 25 years ago. You wouldn't believe some of the things I did just ten years ago. I don't believe that should disqualify me from office.

I agree that he has not led a perfect life. He would agree, also. The point is, many of our elected officials have not led exemplary lives. I'm okay with that. Honesty goes a long way with me. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

For the record, I still find it strange that all of this surfaced just days ago. I still don't buy most of it. But, ultimately, the voters will speak.

ac

[billvon 3,111]

>My point is that at least Arnold is honest.

I don't think he's more or less honest than any other politician. On the groping incidents, he's already said that:

-they were made up by his opponents to make him look bad
-he (Arnold) made them up to make himself look "edgy"
-he apologizes for them.

Reminds me of the classic politician response to a challenge on something bad he did - "I never did that, I apologize for doing it, and I'll never do it again."

>I don't believe that should disqualify me from office.

I don't either, but I also don't think they should be supressed. In addition, consider what will happen if one of the recent victims (i.e. the 51 year old woman he pinned and spanked in a hallway in 2000) brings charges against him; that may not help California. Though it would make good TV I suppose.

>For the record, I still find it strange that all of this surfaced just days ago.
>I still don't buy most of it. But, ultimately, the voters will speak.

Much of it has been around for years, as in the 1977 Oui article, available to anyone who took the time to look. I knew about them about six weeks ago; it just takes a web search. It's only recently that he has gotten more attention, since he is running for governor of a huge state.

I have little doubt that he will win. We love Hollywood here in California, and this election has made great TV. We'd like to imagine that politics is like a movie, where Arnold will stroll into office, cut the budget without affecting education, roadwork, the power grid, police etc by "kicking some ass. " He'll "get rid of the fatcat politicians" and "restore integrity to the state." No doubt there will be tense moments when he goes up against some evil scheming politicians, but he will prevail in the end through steely-eyed determination, and his governorship will have a happy ending. After all, that's what _happens_ in the movies.

[Gawain 0]

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I believe that people do what they have done in the past, rather than what they say they will do. Arnold is an accomplished Hollywood action hero; that's the experience he will bring to the governor's office. You will surely get the leadership you vote for; that's the purpose of a vote. And whatever leadership we get, we will deserve.

Bill, it's like the pot calling the kettle black. We hold these standards to public figures because it's the image we want to project because we, in many cases, don't hold to that standard ourselves (in varying degrees, I'm not saying you or I copped-a-feel at will in your youth). What I am saying is that it's a simple double standard, and it gets tested all the time. Gary Hart was one example, and the standard forced him out, but that same standard accepted Bill Clinton.

Also, you're selling Arnold a little short here in service and business leadership. A business or political executive does not, and should not provide the micro-managed direction to implement any given solution.

As to the belief of doing what people have done in the past, if that were really true, think about where we would be today? None of us were angels in our youth...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,111]

>We hold these standards to public figures because it's the image we
>want to project because we, in many cases, don't hold to that standard
>ourselves . . .

Of course. I would not want to be president; I would want someone who understands foreign policy better than I do, and can make political decisions better than I can, in that position. We do not use ourselves as yardsticks to determine who we want in power; in most cases we want someone as good as possible (i.e. wiser, smarter, more determined) to lead us.

>As to the belief of doing what people have done in the past, if that were
> really true, think about where we would be today?

It is true; we do it all the time. If you wanted to hire an accountant, would you want someone with sterling references and good experience, or a less experienced accountant who's been investigated three times (and in jail once) for tax fraud? What people do in the past is a good indicator of what they will do in the future, a far better indicator than what they SAY they will do in the future.

[Gawain 0]

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I have little doubt that he will win. We love Hollywood here in California, and this election has made great TV. We'd like to imagine that politics is like a movie, where Arnold will stroll into office, cut the budget without affecting education, roadwork, the power grid, police etc by "kicking some ass. " He'll "get rid of the fatcat politicians" and "restore integrity to the state." No doubt there will be tense moments when he goes up against some evil scheming politicians, but he will prevail in the end through steely-eyed determination, and his governorship will have a happy ending. After all, that's what _happens_ in the movies.

Bill, the state cannot survive as a "welfare" state. Health Services spending is out of control and is the single biggest budget item after education. That hasn't always been the case. Many of these services directly overlap federally funded programs and are simply not necessary. I hope the first budget item that gets cut is the legislative budget, followed by HHS. Hold spending growth to under 2% per year and adopt a semi-annual budget cycle. If that doesn't force proper planning, nothing will.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

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Gary Hart was one example, and the standard forced him out, . . .

No. Gary Hart was stupid. He challenged the media to find something on him and then he lead them -right- to his own downfall. BAD mistake. It is laughable how stupid he was. Once you've done something that laughably stupid, the party just isn't going to support you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

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>As to the belief of doing what people have done in the past, if that were
> really true, think about where we would be today?

It is true; we do it all the time. If you wanted to hire an accountant, would you want someone with sterling references and good experience, or a less experienced accountant who's been investigated three times (and in jail once) for tax fraud? What people do in the past is a good indicator of what they will do in the future, a far better indicator than what they SAY they will do in the future.

You are correct in the context that you look at previous professional "experience". However, you are also mixing past deeds, versus professional experience and personal conduct. In the context of hiring an accountant, you look at his resume, talk to professional references, in 99% of the time, you'd never know if that guy spent his evenings rubbing him/herself in peanut-butter while having sex with a Captian Kangaroo doll. Now, if you knew that little fact, would you still hire him (given everything else was a-okay)?

Now, let's apply your theory to the past performance of Gov Davis and Lt Bustamante. What have they done? They lied about the budget, they've increased spending, raised fees, and cut nothing, done nothing to fix it, but now they have the solution? So, based on past actions in business affairs, who do you pick?

Now, Arnold's experience includes successful real estate, successful business ventures which launched and promoted his body building business. His experience in leadership includes actively promoting and participating in the President's Fitness Council and a dozens of programs ICG, Special Olympics, and given the National Leadership Award by the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Matching resumes of Schwarzeneggar, Davis and Bustamante...Gray and Cruz don't hold a candle. These two, well trained, pure politicians, caused this mess, lied about it, and now say they can fix it (one wants to raise more taxes and fees...again). If anything, the budget that Davis signed is not legal. It contains about $13B in loans to the state to help balance the budget. That is illegal. So, whose experience were we talking about?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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Spoken more eloquently than I could have. Good job.

[happythoughts 0]

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Of the 9.000 women polled, when asked whether they would have sex with Clinton, 84% said "never again". (Oh, just to clarify, the women were talking about Bill Clinton.)

and one of them was Sen. Hillary lol

No, only women were polled.

[billvon 3,111]

>You are correct in the context that you look at previous professional
>"experience". However, you are also mixing past deeds, versus
>professional experience and personal conduct. In the context of hiring
>an accountant, you look at his resume, talk to professional references,
>in 99% of the time, you'd never know if that guy spent his evenings
>rubbing him/herself in peanut-butter while having sex with a Captian
>Kangaroo doll. Now, if you knew that little fact, would you still hire him
>(given everything else was a-okay)?

As an accountant? I wouldn't care. As a cook or housekeeper? I'd probably care that he covers himself in peanut butter (since I might end up paying for the peanut butter and the cleanup) - but I might not care that he can't balance his checkbook. An experience that isn't germane for one job may well be germane in another.

In this case - does the governor have anything to do with pushing women's rights or enforcement of rape and sexual assault laws? Yes. Therefore his history of sexual assaults has something to do with his fitness as governor, and the possibility that he may be prosecuted for such crimes also has an impact on how effective a governor he will be.

>What have they done? They lied about the budget, they've increased
>spending, raised fees, and cut nothing, done nothing to fix it, but now
>they have the solution?

No governor will fix everything. The next governor will get lots of shit until the economy turns around, at which point income will increase and he will take credit for "fixing" the problem. Davis isn't a very good governor, although I do not believe he is as bad as you believe him to be. Arnold will be worse. McClintock wouldn't be a bad choice (excepting his rabid anti-abortion stance) but he has no chance.

> If anything, the budget that Davis signed is not legal. It contains
>about $13B in loans to the state to help balance the budget. That is
>illegal.

So's sexual assault. Once again we are reduced to choosing the lesser of two evils.

[MarkR 0]

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It's fairly well known that Schwarzenegger's father was a Nazi storm trooper. This isn't just someting that the "liberal media" dug up, but is a fact.

Gee, what a shocker. Tell you what, there are a lot of people whose ancestors served in the Reichsmacht - simply because of the plain and simple fact that they had to. Does the term "general conscription" ring a bell? Damn, even my grandfather had to serve and ended up in a russian prison camp - does that make me a Nazi too? Sheesh, almost forgot to mention that I'm Austrian - just like Hitler was - and emigrated to Germany - just like Hitler did.

Guess I'll have to grow a mustache and go candidate for German Kanzler. Since all Germans are "Hitler's children" anyway (as I've once read in an American Newspaper) chances are good for me to become an successful dictator, aren't they? Just have to change my taste of color though, brown isn't exactly my favourite pick.

Well, for the ones who didn't get the irony out of my words: Methinks some of you folks need to settle their prejudice-issues VERY badly...

»Somewhere between the lies and truths borderlines get shady.
Somewhere between the yesses and nos you can find the maybe.«

[jfields 0]

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But it's really up to the people here.... And if they do, they will deserve the leadership they receive.

I said about the same thing about mayor Marion Barry in Washington DC. The fact that they elected him showed their poor judgement. That the inevitable occured and he abused his position was tragic. The city is still recovering from the damage he did, both to reputation and infrastructure.

If Schwarzenegger gets elected, it will be because that is what enough Californians want, like you said. I just hope your outcome is better.

[Remster 30]

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Attached is a frame grab from one of the videos, in which he grabs an interviewer's ass

I love playing devil's advocate.....

Knowing the type of TV personality Denise Van Houtten is (morning and late night TV sex pot), I wouldnt be surprised if that grabbing wasnt entirely scripted or agrreed to.

Remster

[Gawain 0]

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In this case - does the governor have anything to do with pushing women's rights or enforcement of rape and sexual assault laws? Yes.

Fair enough, one minor detail missing here. No charges have ever been filed against Arnold. No grand jury has indicted him. He has not been convicted. Perhaps this is the same spotlight turning itself from Clinton to Schwarzeneggar. Let's keep it in perspective. There have been no claims of rape here, you don't need to spin it further than it has been so far. Davis' demons have been kept conspicuously concealed during this recall campaign.

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No governor will fix everything. The next governor will get lots of shit until the economy turns around, at which point income will increase and he will take credit for "fixing" the problem. Davis isn't a very good governor, although I do not believe he is as bad as you believe him to be. Arnold will be worse. McClintock wouldn't be a bad choice (excepting his rabid anti-abortion stance) but he has no chance.

"No governor will fix everything." -- Of course, Bill, but they're not supposes to send it down the river either!! This state, this Union was not founded on social programs.

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> If anything, the budget that Davis signed is not legal. It contains
>about $13B in loans to the state to help balance the budget. That is
>illegal.

So's sexual assault. Once again we are reduced to choosing the lesser of two evils.

But again, we're mixing "deeds" and "experience" that one would put on a resume (Davis'and Bustamante's would read: created increased spending programs in an attempt to have the government create jobs within the government, causing massive deficit, impotent insurance regulation, horrific workmans comp premiums with no safeguards, and now illegal immigrants can get legal drivers licenses).

"Deeds" would read the same, highly visible allegations that are surfacing today about Arnold. And they would remain silent about the physical assault that Davis allegedly submits his female staffers to (not just as Governor either). Of course, since no charges, no indictments have happened, all of this is pretty fruitless....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[quade 4]

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Well, for the ones who didn't get the irony out of my words: Methinks some of you folks need to settle their prejudice-issues VERY badly...

It has nothing to do with prejudice, it has to do with influence and actions.

A lot of hay has been made that this is all "dirty tricks" and nobody has ever said anything about the Schwarzenegger record before. I beg to differ.

http://cjr.org/issues/2003/5/rewind-koch.asp

To me, this shows an interesting pattern of abuse of power and all the donations to worthy causes in the last decade don't make up for his previous abuses.

Further, he has over the course of time tried to cover-up his own past and is now lying about it.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/arnoldpump1.html

It will be very interesting to see how this finally plays out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

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It will be very interesting to see how this finally plays out.

He will be voted into office.. but will face a recall election due to more stuff from his past... that will come to light

Jeanne

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Things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

"At a news conference Allred presented Rhonda Miller, who she said the actor had forcibly lifted her shirt, photographed her bare breasts and then sucked on them in a make-up trailer on the set of "Terminator 2" in 1991.

The Schwarzenegger campaign also produced statements by two crew members on "Terminator 2" who disputed Miller's account.

Hair stylist Peter Tothpal said he was the one who took the photograph, while she was "giggling and having a good time." Make-up supervisor Jeff Dawn said six people were in the trailer when the picture was taken, with Miller's consent, and that Schwarzenegger was not present."

Since I am providing selected paragraphs, feel free to read the full story:
LINK

It's a tough economy right now, especially in Hollywood. People will say whatever they can to make a buck. Arnold has been famous for years. If he had a habit of "attacking" women, we would have heard about it before now.... governor race or not. People would have sued his ass off.

Arnold is a good man. Go Arnold, Go.

ac

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Bill, Quade... now do you see the issue with jumping the gun? This article directly refutes the article that quade posted.

I'm not saying there aren't other issues, but by jumping the gun, we allow people to be misjudged by comments that they did not make. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why you might not like him... but as I said, this article directly refutes some of the "evidence" that Bill noted.

Nevermind the fact that most people will never read, nor be aware of THIS article.

Notable quotes from the article....
___________________________________

N.Y. Times Retracts Arnold Hitler Bombshell

The New York Times issued a de facto retraction on Saturday after misreporting two days earlier that Arnold Schwarzenegger once said he admired Adolf Hitler for what he did with his power.

But an actual transcript of outtakes from Schwarzenegger's 1975 bodybuilding classic, "Pumping Iron," shows that what the actor actually said was exactly the opposite: "I didn't admire [Hitler] for what he did with it."

Butler couldn't explain how he made the mistake, telling the Times, "I am amazed that something like that escaped me."

But what's perhaps more amazing is that the Times, ABC News and the rest of the mainstream press ran wih a bogus story they knew could severly damage Schwarzenegger's reputation without verifying the poisonous quote.

[ltdiver 3]

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... now do you see the issue with jumping the gun? This article directly refutes the article that quade posted.

I'm not saying there aren't other issues, but by jumping the gun, we allow people to be misjudged by comments that they did not make.

Nobody likes to be misunderstood, nor misquoted.

What's just as equally disturbing, though, is when those that give in to knee jerk reaction don't bother to wait until the whole truth comes out before making a judgement.

Sometimes we just don't listen.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon