Twinflower 1 #1 July 10, 2011 Hi all I've just been out jumping after having new lines installed on my Safire 2 169. I am not a very experienced canopy pilot, so there's a lot of things I am not quite sure about. Anyways, what happends is that when I try to use the front risers (while holding the toggles), the canopy starts wobbling and it feels like I'm in the middle of a hurricane. It seems as if the steering lines are too short and the canopy gets "dragged down at both ends". An experienced rigger noticed this from the ground when I was about to land, and I offered him to take my rig for a ride and decide how much the steering lines should be extended. But after a hard landing he was in limbo about what do to because there was no flare at all. As this is the only canopy I have flown since my student time, I though the lack of a proper flare was as it should, although I never really liked landing it. So, I really want to hear other peoples opinion about this behavior, and try to learn something new and hopefully get some advice about my strange line trims. By the way, the lines were ordered by myself at Para Concepts, and my canopy size and serial number was provided (i didnt know the exact date of manufactre, but it was early 2008 i think). The lines was fitted by a profesional shop for equipment and gear maintenance.Just hanging around www.foniksfsk.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #2 July 10, 2011 Quotewhen I try to use the front risers (while holding the toggles), the canopy starts wobbling and it feels like I'm in the middle of a hurricane. An experienced rigger noticed this from the ground when I was about to land I am not a very experienced canopy pilot, so there's a lot of things I am not quite sure about Why are you using for front risers to land if you're not a very experienced canopy pilot and not quite sure about a lot of things? Front riser truns are cool for all jumpers up above the landing pattern, but they shouldn't be used for landing unless you have the training and education to do so. Your problem is most likely too short steering lines, and yes, you are pulling the canopy down in the front and back, and the canopy doesn't like it. Again, this is basic canopy set-up information, and something that would have been covered in any high-performance canopy piloting course becasue, as you can see, proper canopy set-up is essential for any high performance piloting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #3 July 10, 2011 If you can't frontriser without the canopy bucking, your steering lines are very likely set too short. You can check this yourself: In full flight, first clear your airspace then look up at your tail. There should be a small bow in your steering lines. Hit the brakes (full brakes), let up on the brakes and quickly (!) pull down both your frontrisers as far as you can. Now look up again. The tail should not be deflected any. If the tail is deflected you're diving but also braking at the same time, causing bucking. If you need to let out the steering lines, do so a little at a time and check the canopy again after each adjustment until you get it right. As far as flaring goes, a safire needs to be flared quite deep to hit the sweet spot, and you want to do a 2stage flare (not a student type flare-in-one-go). If you weren't taught how to do this, go ask an instructor about it and also get some video of your landings, as chances are it's not the canopy that's the problem. This is also why you need to let out the brakes in smalllish increments: you need to flare deeper with longer steering lines and you need to be able to do that (have long enough arms), so YOU need to figure out how long your steering lines should be since you're the one flying it. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twinflower 1 #4 July 10, 2011 Thanks for the info guys. First about front riser landings: I dont do any 180 and 360 front riser landings. What I used to do, is to do the last 90 degree angle with front risers and recovering at about 15-20 feet above the ground. What I've already tried, is to find the stalling point by pulling the brakes down slowly and holding the toggles on my tigh and counting untill I feel like if I am falling backwards. After counting to 15 (seconds) I release the brakes slowly and tried one more time with the steering lines one time around my hand. I then felt like falling backwards for a brief second after about 10 seconds. I dont know if that's any relevant, but i forgot to mention it in the first post. When it comes to the test mentioned by dragon, I will try that next time I'm in the air. I also will try to get someone to film my landings and try to figure out what I am doing wrong. About the 2-stage flare; i never heard about it, but I look forward to trying :)Just hanging around www.foniksfsk.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #5 July 10, 2011 Quote...What I've already tried, is to find the stalling point by pulling the brakes down slowly and holding the toggles on my tigh and counting untill I feel like if I am falling backwards. After counting to 15 (seconds) I release the brakes slowly and tried one more time with the steering lines one time around my hand. I then felt like falling backwards for a brief second after about 10 seconds... There was a short piece in Parachutist about parcticing stalls. It talked about using the pilot chute as a "stall warning" indicator. And about watching the canopy during the stall to see what happens. Link:http://parachutistonline.com/columns/foundations-flight/toggle-stalls"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twinflower 1 #6 July 10, 2011 QuoteThere was a short piece in Parachutist about parcticing stalls. It talked about using the pilot chute as a "stall warning" indicator. And about watching the canopy during the stall to see what happens. Link:http://parachutistonline.com/columns/foundations-flight/toggle-stalls Thanks a lot! This was not what's happened when I tried to stall my canopy. It just slowed down and jiggled a bit, continuing flying very slowly whilst fully inflated. I really have a hard time understanding my canopyJust hanging around www.foniksfsk.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 32 #7 July 10, 2011 Hiya i came across a simular problem in new zealand once, i relined a canopy for a customer and she complained that her canopy was doing funny things. I checked the line trim after getting the measurements from icarus and turned out thst the send the wrong lineset. Even though the labeling was correct. Get your rigger to check the line trim to make sure it is correct. But i agree sounds like the brakes are short. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #8 July 11, 2011 Quote Hiya i came across a simular problem in new zealand once, i relined a canopy for a customer and she complained that her canopy was doing funny things. I checked the line trim after getting the measurements from icarus and turned out thst the send the wrong lineset. Even though the labeling was correct. I had the same thing happening when I was getting my fusion 120 relines last year: the lineset they sent and labeled as 120 turned out to be for a (much) bigger canopy, there was about a foot difference in length Luckily my rigger compared the linesets before installing the new one ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twinflower 1 #9 July 11, 2011 Ok, I have just received the trim chart from Icarus, so I will try to compare them when I get a chance. Thanks for your inputs, guysJust hanging around www.foniksfsk.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #10 July 11, 2011 QuoteOk, I have just received the trim chart from Icarus, so I will try to compare them when I get a chance. Thanks for your inputs, guys Also check that the right lines go to the right attachment point of the canopy. We got a canopy back and two of the AB lines we switched. Behaved okay in flight, but awful when you pulled the front risers. Also, the flare became a little weird. topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twinflower 1 #11 July 11, 2011 QuoteQuoteOk, I have just received the trim chart from Icarus, so I will try to compare them when I get a chance. Thanks for your inputs, guys Also check that the right lines go to the right attachment point of the canopy. We got a canopy back and two of the AB lines we switched. Behaved okay in flight, but awful when you pulled the front risers. Also, the flare became a little weird. top Good advice, thanksJust hanging around www.foniksfsk.no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
