Catholic Church: Condoms Kill

[WrongWay 0]

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and bringing those people to faith

This is one of my main gripes with organised religion... it recrutes...

Holy shit on a stick, you're right, I sound like the schmucks I'm trying to complain about here!!! KILL ME NOW!!

*hits self, hits self, lies unconcious on floor*

Uuuugggggggghhhhhhhhh....................


Off subject, this reminds me of a joke. Why are JW's so flat chested? Give up???
*pushes JW away* "Get off my porch!!!"

To any JW's out there, not dissing, nothing but love for ya, it's just a funny joke ya gotta admit.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[TheAnvil 0]

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However - do not refer to the Church as "She" or as some sort of living entity. That can lead to pride and vanity.

One wonders as to what algorithm of logic led you to that conclusion.

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Your faith should not be defined by the brick building you visit once a week, or the people you see there.

This is true, but exactly whom are you speaking to here?

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Expand the horizons of your belief......

And how have you come to the conclusion that either my own or Sinker's belief is finite? One wonders.

I see the disdain for the Church continues. I have disdain for things too, but consider my disdain for the democratic party quite well founded - unlike some of what I've seen here. To each his own.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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However - do not refer to the Church as "She" or as some sort of living entity. That can lead to pride and vanity.

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One wonders as to what algorithm of logic led you to that conclusion.

Theology 101 that was taught by a priest with his Masters in Applied Spirituality.

If you see disdain in my parting remarks, then you read it wrong.

Democratic party? Huh? When did I mention politics in this? Apples and Oranges.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[TheAnvil 0]

Again, I fail to see how the conclusion in question is reached.

I mention politics as a comparison of the different 'disdains' people have. My own is for the democratic party. Some here have shown it towards the Church.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Nightingale 0]

I was raised Catholic. I have a family member who is a former priest. He left the priesthood because he couldn't tolerate the hypocracy of so many priests not practicing what the church taught.

The issues I have with the church stem from the way they have placed ordinary human beings up on pedastals, such as priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes. These ordinary people have started wars in God's name (the crusades...) and actively protected child molesters in order to protect the church.

Homosexuality is the norm amongst priests (and I have heard MANY firsthand accounts confirming this, from priests or former priests of at least four different orders, Jesuit, Carmelite, Order of Friar Servants of Mary, and Diocesan). They preach against homosexuality in church, and turn around and take part in homosexual relationships themselves.

You are then required to confess your "sins" to these people, and they, in turn, ask God to forgive you. You ask another HUMAN BEING to talk to God for you. Why not just ask Him yourself?

In my own life, I've chosen to be close to God, but not align myself with any church, because churches are ultimately contructs of man, rather than of the divine.

-N-

**note** I consider homosexuality a very valid lifestyle and actively work with the ACLU on GLTB issues to get GLTB folks the rights they deserve as members of society. I used the above example to illustrate the hypocracy of the church, and as an example of the church saying one thing and doing something very different. The above example was in NO WAY used as a slam against GLTBs.

[kallend 2,117]

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f the Catholic Church hates sex so much, they really need to encourage self-pleasure more. ***

Vallerina, how can you say that? Read for yourself what the Church even teaches about sex before you make such a judgement! It doesn't hate sex at all! But you won't see that from the outside... read what it teaches...

The problem is, most of you won't even take the time to see for yourself what the Catholic Church even teaches and WHY it teaches it. Instead you'll likely just take what the popular media spoon feeds you. It's a shame really. But if you DO look into it, really look into it, you'll be surprised at what you find.

it's not THE CHURCH, it's one church, the Roman church. Practically every denomination calls itself "catholic", but only one pretends it has the monopoly on truth. Redacting the gospels to bring them in-line with Roman doctrine is not the way to truth.

It's the arrogance of people like you that leads to so much anti-Roman-catholicism.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I wish there were more people like you. I won't question someone's personal spirituality, but I do question religions. Each religion says they are right and all the others are wrong. If you ask me, they're all pretty mixed up. But once again, I won't questions someone's individual relationship with their God(s).

Me, I'm Agnostic. The whole question of the universe and a possible creator is too complex for my little brain. But you'll never catch me just believing in words written by humans, translated and changed over time as "the truth".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Deuce 1]

They give out these little round crackers if you listen to them for about an hour.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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They give out these little round crackers if you listen to them for about an hour.

Well at least with some religions, they let your drink wine with your crackers. The Catholic church only lets the priest drink. Is there any wonder why so many priests are messed up.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Deuce 1]

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They give out these little round crackers if you listen to them for about an hour.

Well at least with some religions, they let your drink wine with your crackers. The Catholic church only lets the priest drink. Is there any wonder why so many priests are messed up.

WRONG! BZZZZT!

After the cracker you walk over to the lady with the glass of white wine and she asks if you are a vampire and if you say "amen" you can drink the whole glass. She'll give you a real dirty look if you do though. You're only supposed to take a little sip. The 8th graders who just made their first communion dig the wine thing.

Crackers and a buzz on Sunday morning. Happy time.


Edit: That bottomless wine glass thing that Jesus could do was one of the reasons he was so popular at parties.

That and karaoke. Jesus did a mean karaoke "La Bamba"

[happythoughts 0]

I was just reading through the list of European countries and I was reminded of what happened in Mexico a while back.

The Catholic church had a "church tax". If you didn't pay it, they confiscated your property. Then, they rented the property back and created a feudal/serf relationship. Eventually, it became such a problem that the Mexican govt enacted a law that churches were not allowed to own land except for where the church stood. (Any posters from Mexico, please let me know if this law still exists.)

If the church wants to impress me, they can sell all the gold-plate on the walls in the Vatican. Maybe the Vatican art collection too.

I know a doctor who works in a mission in Korea. Never get rich that way. I know a guy who drilled wells in Africa to provide pure drinking water. Good people helping people, not doing it for the money.

I was married to a Jehovahs Witness for eight year. I can't stand the religion, but I respect their committment.

[Deuce 1]

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If the church wants to impress me, they can sell all the gold-plate on the walls in the Vatican. Maybe the Vatican art collection too.

I just checked E-bay, and some John-Paul2@Vatican.GOD just put all that shit up for sale.

Turns out the Church DID want to impress you!

[happythoughts 0]

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Turns out the Church DID want to impress you!

It's all about respect. Catholics call the priest, who calls the bishop, who calls the Pope. I quit returning that dudes calls. What a whiner.

[Muenkel 0]

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**note** I consider homosexuality a very valid lifestyle and actively work with the ACLU on GLTB issues to get GLTB folks the rights they deserve as members of society.

That's all sweet and very pc of you. I just hope you realize that the ACLU defends the rights of NAMBLA and their practise of teaching pedophiles how to recruit little boys.

_________________________________________
Chris

[DBCOOPER 5]

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That's all sweet and very pc of you. I just hope you realize that the ACLU defends the rights of NAMBLA and their practise of teaching pedophiles how to recruit little boys

Just pull those condoms over their heads and hold em there.Works with "funny" Priest also.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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That's all sweet and very pc of you. I just hope you realize that the ACLU defends the rights of NAMBLA and their practise of teaching pedophiles how to recruit little boys.

From the ACLU website

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NEW YORK--In the United States Supreme Court over the past few years, the American Civil Liberties Union has taken the side of a fundamentalist Christian church, a Santerian church, and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. In celebrated cases, the ACLU has stood up for everyone from Oliver North to the National Socialist Party. In spite of all that, the ACLU has never advocated Christianity, ritual animal sacrifice, trading arms for hostages or genocide. In representing NAMBLA today, our Massachusetts affiliate does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children.

What the ACLU does advocate is robust freedom of speech for everyone. The lawsuit involved here, were it to succeed, would strike at the heart of freedom of speech. The case is based on a shocking murder. But the lawsuit says the crime is the responsibility not of those who committed the murder, but of someone who posted vile material on the Internet. The principle is as simple as it is central to true freedom of speech: those who do wrong are responsible for what they do; those who speak about it are not.

It is easy to defend freedom of speech when the message is something many people find at least reasonable. But the defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one most people find repulsive. That was true when the Nazis marched in Skokie. It remains true today.

The way you phrase it, Chris, suggests that the ACLU supports the rights of NAMBLA members to engage in pederastic behavior, and I suspect that your phrasing was intentional.

Free speech is free speech. The ACLU takes a hard line in opposition to our esteemed president's belief that "there should be limits to freedom."

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[sinker 0]

Homosexuality is the norm amongst priests (and I have heard MANY firsthand accounts confirming this, from priests or former priests of at least four different orders, Jesuit, Carmelite, Order of Friar Servants of Mary, and Diocesan). They preach against homosexuality in church, and turn around and take part in homosexual relationships themselves.

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You cannot be MORE wrong. I know hundred of priests. A few are homosexual and living chaste lives as the Church requires. I know a couple who are not chaste and actively living homosexual lifestyles. The interesting thing is that those who are practicing homosexuals went to liberal, heretical seminaries where the teachings of the Church were NOT taught nor practiced.

The OVERWHELMING majority of priests are good, chaste, holy men. It's really quite tragic that b/c of the few who are bad apples, the whole lot are cast in bad light b/c of it.

. I have a family member who is a former priest. He left the priesthood because he couldn't tolerate the hypocracy of so many priests not practicing what the church taught. ***

Why did your family member leave b/c of the hypocrisy? Why not stay and make a change for the better? All it takes is one light to dispell the darkness.

You also betray a pretty underdeveloped understanding of the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) but it's late and I've hardly the energy to expound upon it here.

Again, as I've said previously, it's sad to me that so many misunderstand the Catholic Church. But what consoles me is that She has been here over 2000 years. No one has taken Her down yet, b/c no one can. Napolean said that if he didn't get his way from Rome, he'd destroy the Church... In reply, a cardinal said to him, look--we've been trying to destroy Her from within for centuries w/o success... what makes you so sure of yourself? The Church has survived all sorts of attacks, mostly from the scoundrels w/i Her walls. She'll survive all of this vitriolity as well.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

However - do not refer to the Church as "She" or as some sort of living entity. That can lead to pride and vanity.

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One wonders as to what algorithm of logic led you to that conclusion.

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Theology 101 that was taught by a priest with his Masters in Applied Spirituality. ***

Please forgive me, but your theo 101 prof should have finished a PhD b/c he was saidly mistaken about the true nature of the Church w/ his little MA in applied spirituality.

The Church is first and foremost a She. She is Christ's Bride. He is the Bridegroom. She is the New Jerusalem, redeemed by his salvific death and resurection. She's also His body... He is the head, we are the body. He is the initiator of reconciling man with God, we are the responder. The Church is not primarily an institution. She is that, but that is so secondary. That is why people like me, Muenkel, TheAnvil, can speak of Her lovingly and with devotion IN SPITE of Her problems. Yes, She's got some serious problems... but you know, the Church is often the harlot from the Old Testament book Hosea, whom the prophet takes has his bride. Yet even when she leaves him for herformer trade, he takes her back. Again and again.

It's a very good thing that those of you who hate the Church (not directed at you, chasingbluesky) are not the Bridegroom. You're merciless.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

it's not THE CHURCH, it's one church, the Roman church. Practically every denomination calls itself "catholic", but only one pretends it has the monopoly on truth. Redacting the gospels to bring them in-line with Roman doctrine is not the way to truth.

It's the arrogance of people like you that leads to so much anti-Roman-catholicism. ***

Thank you for the insult. It is indeed a privilage to be insulted for my beliefs. And I say that w/o sarcasm. For people who do not believe the way I do, the way that over a billion others do, such statements are incomprehensible. So be it.

I refer to the Catholic Church as THE Church b/c it was/is the original Christian Church. Aside from eastern orthodox seperations, the Christian world was Catholic until the time of Henry VIII, Luther, Calvin, etc.

I'm sorry that the only way you can interpret the claims of the Catholic Church is to resort to accusations of arrogance. Not only of the teachings of the Catholic Church but of me too.

If you had any idea of who I was as a person, you would not be calling me arrogant.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

Each religion says they are right and all the others are wrong. If you ask me, they're all pretty mixed up. ***

This is another common misunderstanding about Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church acknowledges that there are aspects of truth in all other religions. While it certainly believes w/ all sincerity that w/i it lies the complete deposit of truth as revealed by God, the Catholic Church does not condemn ANY other religion. Read the Vatican document Nosta Aetate and many others. For that matter, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's on the shelves of just about every bookstore! It acknowledges and applauds other religions for their seeking of truth and for the truths that they indeed possess, such as Islam's worship of one God for example.

To say that the Catholic Church says that they are right and all others is wrong is simply incorrect.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

Well at least with some religions, they let your drink wine with your crackers. The Catholic church only lets the priest drink. Is there any wonder why so many priests are messed up***

ever been to a Mass? the reception of communion under bread AND wine is the univeral norm. it's amazing the amount of ignorance that exists about the practices and beliefs of the Catholic Church. What is NOT AT ALL amazing is that there is a positive correlation b/t ignorance and predjudice. This has certainly been validated on this thread.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Zenister 0]

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The Church is first and foremost a She. She is Christ's Bride. He is the Bridegroom. She is the New Jerusalem, redeemed by his salvific death and resurection. She's also His body... He is the head, we are the body. He is the initiator of reconciling man with God, we are the responder. The Church is not primarily an institution. She is that, but that is so secondary. That is why people like me, Muenkel, TheAnvil, can speak of Her lovingly and with devotion IN SPITE of Her problems. Yes, She's got some serious problems... but you know, the Church is often the harlot from the Old Testament book Hosea, whom the prophet takes has his bride. Yet even when she leaves him for herformer trade, he takes her back. Again and again.

It's a very good thing that those of you who hate the Church (not directed at you, chasingbluesky) are not the Bridegroom. You're merciless.

such convoluted dogma is exactly what keeps you seperated from divinity...the church is a means of control. A middleman between you an the direct experience of god..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sinker 0]

such convoluted dogma is exactly what keeps you seperated from divinity...the church is a means of control. A middleman between you an the direct experience of god..
***

what is amazing to me about you zenister is how you can assume that I am seperated from divinity when you know NOTHING about me expect my Catholic beliefs. i experience God in so many ways. and some of the most profound are through the Church. all I can do is shake my head about how limited your view of the Church is. it's such a convenient excuse to say it's nothing but a means of control. it's like all your seeing is a stained glass window from the outside. well of course it is going to look prosaic and lifeless. you have to look from the inside. then and only then does it open up in all its beauty.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Zenister 0]

if you need the church for anything relating to divinity you are using it as a middle man...I can certainly dig up quite a number of medieval catholic teachings that clearly show the church believes (believed) itself to be an intermediary between the people and god...of course that idea has fallen out of favor as it illustrates the true nature of the church (any church) a means of social control, with little to do with the nature of divinity or mankinds relation to it..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Nightingale 0]

My family member left the church after over A DECADE of trying to change it from within. He finally accepted that it wasn't possible and moved on, with the full support of the entire family after they heard his story.

Regarding the homosexuality issue: of the men I spoke with, there were several from the Jesuits, who run the college I went to. The Order of Friar Servants of Mary runs the high school I went to for drama class. Got to be friends with a priest there. I asked questions. He answered honestly. The carmelite priest works at a university with my aunt. I told him what I'd been told by the folks from the other orders, and he confirmed it, both for his own order, and the priesthood in general. Finally, getting real curious, I asked the pastor of the church I attended growing up. Same answers. Same answers from PRIESTS WHO DIDN'T KNOW EACH OTHER.

and with regards to the survival of your church: that's your concern. It has nothing to do with me. I have no interest in either the survival or destruction of the Catholic Church. I simply choose not to participate in its hypocracy any longer. The day I find a religion where the majority of church leaders and followers actually practice what they proclaim is the day I will re-evaluate my views on organized religion. Until then, you walk your path, and I'll walk mine.