haleym77 0
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tcnelson 1
nobody votes conservative....until they grow up.
"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329
This is interesting.. i make £8.30 an hour ($12.45) thats after 20 years and the last 5 programming a machining center (c.n.c.).
What sort of money would i be looking at in the USA ? it looks like working in a supermarket is a better paid job.
-- Hope you don't die. --
I'm fucking winning
What sort of money would i be looking at in the USA ? it looks like working in a supermarket is a better paid job.
-- Hope you don't die. --
I'm fucking winning
Yes, he is worth $20 an hour to the company...After 15 years of service he has saved COUNTLESS hours of labor that would have been spent training other replacement employees to do his same job, as well as COUNTLESS hours of hiring processes, that would have been spent getting someone else hired. He also is a trainer for new employees, and is very valuable because he has done just about every position besides managing. So he is a versatile trainer, and is also able to fill in for any employee who is unable to work their own shift due to illness, etc. Which, by the way, he does cover for other employees whenever he can. In fact, he's been covering some girl's overnight shift, as well as his own day shift, for the past three weeks. I agree that it's not just the time put into a job that counts, but the quality. And my brother gives 100% effort, and the quality of his work is 100%. I do repeat myself to you and skydiverrick...he damn sure does deserve the wage he gets!
I never said that your brother doesn't deserve $20/hr. I just don't think that anyone deserves it for hanging around for 20 years. It seems that your brother has more duties than that of a cashier. More responsibility should be rewarded. The amount of time on the job is not reason enough to get paid more.
never pull low......unless you are
Flygator 0
As a former union president, I had it well, and lived luxurious because of it, reaping the benefits that should have been spread amongst the employees paying the union dues....then I got a conscience about it and turned from unions. It wasn't long down the line that I crossed the picket lines. Oh, it cost me dearly but I had a family with 5 children to feed and when it comes to them, there isn't anyone or anything that will ever come between us. It's called doing what's right. I don't need to pay the mob any longer to tell me to starve my family and do without while the "uppers" live like a king without any remorse, continuing to draw their paycheck! And if you don't believe it's the mob...well look in the center of each seal...AFL CIO...
lummy 4
But if you are working a job for 20 years, would you expect to be paid minimum wage? Is it not possible that after 20 years, a person could gain enough experience to be worth $20 an hour, even if it is a cashier position?
And that means that you are against cost of living increases? So if You stay in the same position for a number of years, you shouldn't get a raise?
More responsibility should be rewarded. The amount of time on the job is not reason enough to get paid more.
And that means that you are against cost of living increases? So if You stay in the same position for a number of years, you shouldn't get a raise?
I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1
Jimbo 0
Is it not possible that after 20 years, a person could gain enough experience to be worth $20 an hour, even if it is a cashier position?
No, it's not possible, simply because cashiers aren't worth $20.00/hour. A cashier is worth $20.00/hour when a cashier can walk into any grocery store and expect to be paid that wage from day one.
And that means that you are against cost of living increases? So if You stay in the same position for a number of years, you shouldn't get a raise?
I don't think that anyone is against a cost of living adjustment, but even that isn't going to bring a cashier to $20.00/hour.
-
Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
jfields 0
I'd cross the picket line if I wanted to shop there. No question.
The act of striking and picketing shows an infantile breakdown in communication on both sides, but honestly not one that should affect me. It isn't my business, and I resent the employees trying to make it my business. I don't care, I just want to buy my groceries.
So they strike, here are some possible outcomes:
1) Striker's cave after awhile, and after hurting their own finances and those of the company. Customer service sucks during strike and you end up with disgruntled workers who have less enthusiams for customers than pre-strike.
2) Company caves after awhile. Workers get whatever it is they wanted. Company profits drop, so prices go up and/or workers get laid off.
3) After some period of time, they make a compromise. That is after giving sub-standard service to customers, hurting employees and damaging the company.
In all three scenarios, the party guaranteed to get screwed is the customers. They are the people that support the entire business, so it shows a lack of comittment on both the employees and the management to carelessly throw away the customer relationship.
I haven't seen a union cause in a long time worthy of striking. They are all about piddly selfish issues that will be addressed one way or another by a free-market economy. We aren't talking about sweatshops, or unsafe working conditions, or sexual harassment, or fraud, or anything really serious. Those issues are all covered by laws. The unions offer very little other than a meddlesome intrusion into the workings of the company. Those companies that cannot either eliminate their unions or establish a relationship where the union interests are aligned with the company's interests will simply fail. A stubborn union that isn't willing to compromise will drive the company out business as it becomes non-competitive with its peers. End result: unemployed workers and a defunct pension plan. Who wants a Pyrrhic victory?
The act of striking and picketing shows an infantile breakdown in communication on both sides, but honestly not one that should affect me. It isn't my business, and I resent the employees trying to make it my business. I don't care, I just want to buy my groceries.
So they strike, here are some possible outcomes:
1) Striker's cave after awhile, and after hurting their own finances and those of the company. Customer service sucks during strike and you end up with disgruntled workers who have less enthusiams for customers than pre-strike.
2) Company caves after awhile. Workers get whatever it is they wanted. Company profits drop, so prices go up and/or workers get laid off.
3) After some period of time, they make a compromise. That is after giving sub-standard service to customers, hurting employees and damaging the company.
In all three scenarios, the party guaranteed to get screwed is the customers. They are the people that support the entire business, so it shows a lack of comittment on both the employees and the management to carelessly throw away the customer relationship.
I haven't seen a union cause in a long time worthy of striking. They are all about piddly selfish issues that will be addressed one way or another by a free-market economy. We aren't talking about sweatshops, or unsafe working conditions, or sexual harassment, or fraud, or anything really serious. Those issues are all covered by laws. The unions offer very little other than a meddlesome intrusion into the workings of the company. Those companies that cannot either eliminate their unions or establish a relationship where the union interests are aligned with the company's interests will simply fail. A stubborn union that isn't willing to compromise will drive the company out business as it becomes non-competitive with its peers. End result: unemployed workers and a defunct pension plan. Who wants a Pyrrhic victory?
In the current slow growth recovery, facing some deflationary factors, this union should be working to ensure the simple continuation of employment, let alone 3% raises
Oh theres a model= I'm locked and loaded, cover me I'm going in.... to Walmart.
Why, you think ralphs and other markets ( and many other purchased products) are going to limit their price increases to under 3%? Its just the cost of living increase, which always lags well behind the cost of doing business increase and inflation and the cost of everything.
If I were Steven Burd, I would be looking heavily at the Wal-Mart model
Oh theres a model= I'm locked and loaded, cover me I'm going in.... to Walmart.
sundevil777 102
A stubborn union that isn't willing to compromise will drive the company out business as it becomes non-competitive with its peers.
Some unions have figured out how to get around this nuisance. Just make it impossible to have a non-union company compete against you, such as how many levels of government will only contract with companies that are unionized.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
wmw999 2,558
There are right-to-work states (Texas is one -- unions are, by and large, very weak here). Of course, Texas also has one of the highest industrial accident rates (particularly in the heavily non-unionized construction industry).
They have their place, but like any other organization or government, some of the leads end up deciding that the members work for them, rather than them working for the members.
Wendy W.
They have their place, but like any other organization or government, some of the leads end up deciding that the members work for them, rather than them working for the members.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
But if you are working a job for 20 years, would you expect to be paid minimum wage? Is it not possible that after 20 years, a person could gain enough experience to be worth $20 an hour, even if it is a cashier position?
If you work for someone for 20 years and haven't been promoted past cashier, you aren't worth $20/hr
And that means that you are against cost of living increases? So if You stay in the same position for a number of years, you shouldn't get a raise?
Yes, I believe in cost of living raises. I don't believe that would account for a cashier making $20/hr though.
never pull low......unless you are
Gawain 0
In the current slow growth recovery, facing some deflationary factors, this union should be working to ensure the simple continuation of employment, let alone 3% raises
Why, you think ralphs and other markets ( and many other purchased products) are going to limit their price increases to under 3%? Its just the cost of living increase, which always lags well behind the cost of doing business increase and inflation and the cost of everything.
If I were Steven Burd, I would be looking heavily at the Wal-Mart model
Oh theres a model= I'm locked and loaded, cover me I'm going in.... to Walmart.
Not everyone, union or not, gets cost of living increases (standard "cost of living" increases are under 2% BTW). In the face of deflation, inflation obviously is not a factor.
Also, my reference to Steven Burd and the Wal-Mart model is simply something he needs to allow visibility into the fray. Why? Because, like it or not, like their business practices or not, Wal-Mart's model works. Fortune #1. It says something that retail executives can't ignore from a numbers standpoint.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Not everyone, union or not, gets cost of living increases
Don't get me wrong, many years ago I was a piece worker in electronics. It was the best. If want more or need more I did more, produced more. Then I went into IBEW, no widgets to quantify but a dangerous trade the union got those little costs of living increases.
Worked nights and holidays ( low seniority= worked every christmas and newyears for years on end ) so what if someone is making 45 bucks an hour for 8 hours if they are not with their families for many years of their lives. The union got that for them. Ask a grocery worker about their busiest days ( they are all forced to work ) They are your holidays the ones where you are with your family or parting with their friends. Not appeasing last minute cranky drunk shoppers. Try it once.
Now I do the same thing for a non union shop. Same trade same danger no union. Cost of living raises if you are lucky. Its brown nose and back stab to get ahead there are no widgets to count up at the end of the day. leadership is by peter principle. The MBAs that run this place are making billion dollar mistakes and it cuting into there bottom line and therefore my chance at a 3% but they've got this nack for making it sound like it our faults. These MBAs love to talk numbers, numbers, numbers. But they cannot make common smart business choices.
Everything by the numbers got detroit and our auto industry in a shit whole in the 70s that we are just now starting to get out of.
Your employees are a stake holder in your company also not just the share holder.
I can see one of the Ralphs warehouses from where I live. Less than a mile away from me is the store ( theirs) where I shop, two miles away is a food for less ( a ralphs non-union bag it yourself and save kind of warehouse that I can go to, in a crappy area.) Guess which one I'm in the Jack Daniels club at?
like it or not, like their business practices or not, Wal-Mart's model works.
Ok then, when should expect the cost of things to drop accordingly? Like Gasoline?Oh I know this but that does not mean shame for asking.
In the face of deflation, inflation obviously is not a factor.
Don't get me wrong, many years ago I was a piece worker in electronics. It was the best. If want more or need more I did more, produced more. Then I went into IBEW, no widgets to quantify but a dangerous trade the union got those little costs of living increases.
Worked nights and holidays ( low seniority= worked every christmas and newyears for years on end ) so what if someone is making 45 bucks an hour for 8 hours if they are not with their families for many years of their lives. The union got that for them. Ask a grocery worker about their busiest days ( they are all forced to work ) They are your holidays the ones where you are with your family or parting with their friends. Not appeasing last minute cranky drunk shoppers. Try it once.
Now I do the same thing for a non union shop. Same trade same danger no union. Cost of living raises if you are lucky. Its brown nose and back stab to get ahead there are no widgets to count up at the end of the day. leadership is by peter principle. The MBAs that run this place are making billion dollar mistakes and it cuting into there bottom line and therefore my chance at a 3% but they've got this nack for making it sound like it our faults. These MBAs love to talk numbers, numbers, numbers. But they cannot make common smart business choices.
Everything by the numbers got detroit and our auto industry in a shit whole in the 70s that we are just now starting to get out of.
Your employees are a stake holder in your company also not just the share holder.
I can see one of the Ralphs warehouses from where I live. Less than a mile away from me is the store ( theirs) where I shop, two miles away is a food for less ( a ralphs non-union bag it yourself and save kind of warehouse that I can go to, in a crappy area.) Guess which one I'm in the Jack Daniels club at?
like it or not, like their business practices or not, Wal-Mart's model works.
Standby for uppity words comming from a skydiver: nasty place with zombies for emplyees its morphed into some monster that Sam wouldn't ( although the number crunchers do) approve of. Only go in extreme case IE:need 1 item and get out fast or emergency like tent flooding at rantoul, we were in and out in 15 minutes flat. Skydekker was covering. And that was one of the nicer walmarts I've been in. Midwest has some bargain convenience store pride that the socal lacks.
Fortune #1. It says something that retail executives can't ignore from a numbers standpoint.
***
You like nice Cars, like your car. What if the numbers proved best that the people that make and service your car should scrape the bottom of the gene pool for personel to see to your cars needs from the factory to the aftermarket? After all it doesn't take much to scan a bar scan on the side of a carton.
Fast 0
The most interaction that I have had with unions was as a kid working a local grocery store.
It was great, we made decent money for being in highschool, and unless we stole from the company, broke a law on the property, or completly (like 100%) disregarded our job duties, they couldn't fire us. Was great, we didn't have to do much to make money.
I got bored with it though, and actually put in some work so I could have a better job there, but I will asure you so many people slacked as much as the could, and they did it cause they knew they weren't going to get fired.
As for me now, dunno... never had to deal with it, not many strikes around here as of late. Who knows what I would do.
It was great, we made decent money for being in highschool, and unless we stole from the company, broke a law on the property, or completly (like 100%) disregarded our job duties, they couldn't fire us. Was great, we didn't have to do much to make money.
I got bored with it though, and actually put in some work so I could have a better job there, but I will asure you so many people slacked as much as the could, and they did it cause they knew they weren't going to get fired.
As for me now, dunno... never had to deal with it, not many strikes around here as of late. Who knows what I would do.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Jimbo 0
It was great, we made decent money for being in highschool, and unless we stole from the company, broke a law on the property, or completly (like 100%) disregarded our job duties, they couldn't fire us. Was great, we didn't have to do much to make money.
Absolutely, this is a problem with unions today. They protect the lazy, and discourage hard work. That's wonderful.
-
Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
They can be very limiting if you want to advance. And its a shame when you have to lay off hardworking low seniorty guys and keep lazy high time slackers That know they are "fireproof".
Unions bring their own problems to the table, and in sometimes cut their own throat. But in some cases a needed evil. Ask the Boeing engineers about their Union.
Unions bring their own problems to the table, and in sometimes cut their own throat. But in some cases a needed evil. Ask the Boeing engineers about their Union.
Gawain 0
Some commodities follow the trend. But what I am talking about is the risk of deflation in a slow growth economy. I'm not comparing directly to the depression, but I'm drawing a parallel or sorts.
... Worked nights and holidays ( low seniority= worked every christmas and newyears for years on end ) so what if someone is making 45 bucks an hour for 8 hours if they are not with their families for many years of their lives. The union got that for them. Ask a grocery worker about their busiest days ( they are all forced to work ) They are your holidays the ones where you are with your family or parting with their friends. Not appeasing last minute cranky drunk shoppers. Try it once.
Been there and done that, outside of a union environment. I got paid double time plus 10% at the time (I was a courier). And no offense, but these people know that's part of the f**k**g job. I don't work in that environment because I chose not to. I don't work in any kind of retail environment because I don't want to. Doing this does not generate "the right" to earn wages that are higher than an apprentice's as he learns an applied, skilled trade. Doing this generates no rights what-so-ever.
Everything by the numbers got detroit and our auto industry in a shit whole in the 70s that we are just now starting to get out of.
That's only part of the argument. UAW have forced margins with Ford to razor thin levels and it ultimately cost Chrysler its independence (despite Lee Iacocca's excellent guidance to bail them out). GM makes money, but they paid the price in quality.
Your employees are a stake holder in your company also not just the share holder.
I agree, but that is a moral argument, not an economic one.
I agree, but again, that is a moral argument, not an economic one.
Fortune #1. It says something that retail executives can't ignore from a numbers standpoint.
You like nice Cars, like your car. What if the numbers proved best that the people that make and service your car should scrape the bottom of the gene pool for personel to see to your cars needs from the factory to the aftermarket? After all it doesn't take much to scan a bar scan on the side of a carton.
I don't fully understand your example here. The business numbers have already removed the human equation from the major assembly components of cars in the first place.
See one of my earlier posts. Unions serve an important role to several parts of industry and workers. However, in this case with Safeway, the unions are squeezing for more "up arrows" for their own, while Safeway is suffering "down arrows" in its own revenues and net income.
Follow me on this:
The unions in this case are requesting $.50 per hour raises this year, with $.45 per hour raises each of the following two years. Additionally, they are requesting a continuation of fully paid benefits.
Safeway, in FY2002: Sales growth, DOWN 5.5%; Net Income, LOSS $828.1M. This, in addition to shut downs in operations.
The math doesn't work. The Legislature of the State of California is just figuring the same math out. You can't outspend revenues.
The math doesn't work, the socialized structure they are demanding doesn't work. The market cannot continue to bear increased wages and benefits without compromise.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
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