Gear timeshare/joint ownership

[nigel99 613]

I was wondering if anyone had ever tried this and how it worked out for them?

Background - I currently rent gear which gives me access to what I like. I have come to be certain that I want to stick with a Sabre 2 210 for the next couple of hundred jumps. I am on a budget and considered getting a rig without an AAD as my first 100 jumps I did not have an AAD, so I am not afraid of not having one. But as a father and husband I feel that it is my responsibility (duty) to take reasonable precautions. In addition doing RW and being a low timer probably puts me right in the middle of the "usual suspects" for AAD fires.

It seems like finding someone who is on a similar level and who also can't jump their ass off over a weekend could provide access to a rig with everything. Naturally you would want ground rules about conflicts, cost of damage etc.

*Of course all this goes away if my wife starts jumping as she'll then support my request to sell the house, car and kids for jumps and shiny new gear

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[davelepka 4]

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It seems like finding someone who is on a similar level and who also can't jump their ass off over a weekend could provide access to a rig with everything

How is this different than just renting? You would be jumpng a rig that you don't own and that you don't take home with you at the end of the day.

You have to consider how many jumps you do, and what the cost of half a rig would be. Then add in half the cost of maintenance and repacks, and see how long you would need to own the rig to make it cheaper than renting. Then factor in that your 'partner' would have to want to keep their half of the rig for at least that amount of time, or you're stuck selling it or buying them out of the deal.

You're better off just buying the least expensive used rig you can get your hands on (within reason). A freefly freindly container with 1000 jumps? Check. A PD reserve with 2 or 3 jumps on it? Check. Sabre 2 210 with 800 jumps and newer lines? Check. All of the above would be on the low end of the price scale, and wouldn't lose much value over the course of 2 years a 200 jumps. You could buy it for one price, and sell it for 90% of that when you're done.

The AAD is one area where you'll lose value with use, but that's generally the way of the world. The AAD will provide a service, and you pay for it.

[nigel99 613]

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It seems like finding someone who is on a similar level and who also can't jump their ass off over a weekend could provide access to a rig with everything

How is this different than just renting? You would be jumpng a rig that you don't own and that you don't take home with you at the end of the day.

You have to consider how many jumps you do, and what the cost of half a rig would be. Then add in half the cost of maintenance and repacks, and see how long you would need to own the rig to make it cheaper than renting. Then factor in that your 'partner' would have to want to keep their half of the rig for at least that amount of time, or you're stuck selling it or buying them out of the deal.

You're better off just buying the least expensive used rig you can get your hands on (within reason). A freefly freindly container with 1000 jumps? Check. A PD reserve with 2 or 3 jumps on it? Check. Sabre 2 210 with 800 jumps and newer lines? Check. All of the above would be on the low end of the price scale, and wouldn't lose much value over the course of 2 years a 200 jumps. You could buy it for one price, and sell it for 90% of that when you're done.

The AAD is one area where you'll lose value with use, but that's generally the way of the world. The AAD will provide a service, and you pay for it.

The reason I see it as different to renting is simply availability. The 210's are in very high demand and there can be 4 or 5 people competing for access. Add to this students get priority for rental rigs so it can be difficult. I am also finding that trying to dial in canopy flight, it is useful to have the same canopy. Not to be switching between a brand new 210, a ragged out 210 or 230's.

I wasn't considering new equipment by the way that would be silly when cash outlaw is the concern. I will be keeping my eyes open for a low cost rig, now that I am certain of what I want , and will consider buying it as parts as that helps spreading the cash over a period.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[bqmassey 0]

It's an interesting idea. Fractional ownership is very common in aviation. A small group of people will form an LLC, draft bylaws, and own an aircraft together. Everyone with rights to the aircraft splits the fixed costs evenly. Costs that are incurred by flying (such as putting money towards the fund for engine overhauls) are paid in relation to how much you fly it.

I could definitely see it working out if two jumpers shared a rig in a similar way. You could rent a locker at the DZ and leave it there. The only major problem is that you would have to take turns if you're jumping the same day, and you'd never be able to jump together.

An alternative that might work better for some people is to have one person own the rig outright (covering all of the fixed costs), and just rent it to another person per jump for a price that's comparable to the depreciation per jump (probably less than $5/jump). The renter would pay for any damage/repacks that they cause.

[likestojump 3]

I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

[nigel99 613]

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

I have a budget of ~$300 a month for hobbies (skydiving). If I want an AAD then I probably need to send ~$2000 which is a fair number of months of jumping or doing less jumps.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[davelepka 4]

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I have a budget of ~$300 a month for hobbies (skydiving).

Take one month of skydiving and set it aside. Take out a loan for $2200, add the $300 and buy a rig with an AAD. Use $100/mo to pay the loan, and $200/mo to jump with, and the rig will be paid off in 2 years.

Now you own a rig worth most of what you paid for it. You can jump it, or sell it and upgrade/downsize at will. Buying a rig is a big hunk of change, but it only hurts bad the first time. Once you own one, you can always jump it or sell it to fund future gear purchases.

It's a fairly 'safe' plan in that your $300 'down payment' help to keep you on top of the loan for the first few months. With the realtively low depreciation of a used rig, it's value will remain steady as you pay the loan down. If you need to cash out in a year, or get hurt or quit jumping, the rig is still worth most of what you paid, and the loan is down to half of what you borrowed. You can sell the rig, pay off the loan, and have a pile of cash left over.

[likestojump 3]

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

I have a budget of ~$300 a month for hobbies (skydiving). If I want an AAD then I probably need to send ~$2000 which is a fair number of months of jumping or doing less jumps.

Like with many activities/hobbies in life you have recurring costs and initial investments.

Wanna have a car ? It will cost you insurance, gas, maintenance, but it before all that you need to BUY the said car :)
Wanna start rock climbing ? You better spend some dough on gear, otherwise you will just be hiking :(

again, I am not trying to sound like a dick here, but it kills me to see people who are way past their A-license pay an exuberant amount of money for rentals, instead of scraping a somehwat not bank breaking 1.5-2K and getting gear they can get 3x more jumps with for the same amount of money.

as usual, good luck !

[popsjumper 2]

Rent the house.
Keep the car
Sell the kids.


Good to go.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[hcsvader 1]

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

I have a budget of ~$300 a month for hobbies (skydiving). If I want an AAD then I probably need to send ~$2000 which is a fair number of months of jumping or doing less jumps.

Not sure what your paying for gear rental but if your renting a rig for $30 a jump thats $3000 for 100 jumps.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[DiverMike 5]

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it kills me to see people who are way past their A-license pay an exuberant amount of money for rentals

I am not sure what 'way past 'A' is, but I jumped rental gear for about 30 jumps after my 'A' license. It wasn't the cheapest way to do it, but I didn't mind having the Dropzone make some money off of me while I was jumping a 200+ sf canopy. I also had to pay packers to pack the last jump of each day and I was glad to send some money their way.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[JCW1966 0]

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

Not trying to sound like a jerk here but what do you really expect to get for $1500?

I've seen folks on here try to sale a Sabre 1 in a Dolphin Container with a Raven reserve and no AAD for $3000 and every piece of the gear was over 10 yrs old.

I bought a Sabre II 190, Mirage G3, and a R-Max 208 reserve for $2700. All of the gear was manufactured in 2004 but 7 years later when I got it, it still had less than 300 jumps and hadn't been jumped in over a year. The main is still got that shininess / slickness like a brand new canopy. The reserve has one ride on it. Rig was taken completely apart, inspected, and I was told that if I wanted to get rid of the main they'd give me a grand for it. I was quoted $1850 by a dealer for a new Sabre II.

Well I didn't want to get rid of the main but it was a nice offer / try

[JCW1966 0]

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as my first 100 jumps I did not have an AAD, so I am not afraid of not having one....

The 210's are in very high demand and there can be 4 or 5 people competing for access. Add to this students get priority for rental rigs so it can be difficult.

Where on earth are you jumping at that rents student gear with no AAD in it?

I jump without an AAD but it's my rig. And yes I do plan on putting an AAD in it. After watching someone's full face helmet come off of their head and and almost KO me in the face (I wear an open face Gath) I've decided that an AAD might not be a bad idea.

As far as this time share idea of yours personally I'd be stashing money back every time I could until I could afford a rig. I rented gear for 5 years. I'm not married but I had college and all of it's expenses to deal with.

I also was lucky that for a long time Thursday and Fridays were free gear rental so my gear renting expense wasn't anywhere as high as it could have been.

You definitely need to get some gear. Nothing beats consistency under canopy than jumping the same thing every time you jump.

Good Luck, I hope you find the deal of a lifetime. Nothing like owning your own gear

[hokierower 0]

I was in a very similar situation a little less than a month ago. I had planned on completely finishing my A license just before I moved and buying gear once I got to my new DZ. Well, weather changed, I got lucky, etc. and I ended up finishing my A-license with at least a month left. My two options were...

(A) To rent gear for that entire period of time @ either $30 for a jump or $60/day and have to compete with students for the rig I wanted, or buy a used rig. 8 jumpable days would have racked the total up to $500 in money that I would never get back.

(B) Take out a personal loan for money that I WILL have at a later date but not right now and then pay it back.

I chose option B and it's worked out already. For $3k (including setup fees) I bought a well used Wings container, a lightly used Spectre 190, a lightly used PDR 176, and a Cypres with 1.5yrs left. The rig wasn't made for me but it fits and feels a lot better than a student rig.

I would recommend finding something that you can fit into and borrow the money and pay it back versus renting gear and spending money that you will never see again.

[julio_gyn 0]

I paid 1200 euros on mine rig without aad, I had to jump only a few times during 6 months to save money for the gear, I had to give up some other stuff to be able to pay for it, but worth all the effort... I have wife and loan to pay, I can't spend so much with skydiving like I want..

Julio Cesar
blue skies

[likestojump 3]

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I hate to sound like a naysayer, but :

if you cannot afford a semi-decent rig, you probably cannot afford to skydive. By semi-decent I meant give or take $1500 USD.

Not trying to sound like a jerk here but what do you really expect to get for $1500?

A semi-decent rig, just like I said :)
Have you seen the student gear that many DZs have ? Many are still using Vector IIs with velcro riser covers, older reserves (Ravens, Rascals, Fury's, etc) and full F111 mains or well used Mantas. I assure you, that for $1500 you can get a better rig.

Say a Talon2 or and older Javelin with a Raven reserve and an older Sabre or if you are light enough and are not giving into the propaganda you can get a very lightly used F111 main for peanuts, just make sure to load it lightly. Hell, even odler Vector3's are possible, they came out in '96, and are quite nice.

Of course if you want to be the cool kid on the block, you will spend an unsurmountable amount of time looking for that Mirage G4 with a PDR and a Sabre2 with low jumps for $2K :(

[PiLFy 3]

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Rent the house.
Keep the car
Sell the kids.


Good to go.

Life becomes so simple once you prioritize ...

[nigel99 613]

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as my first 100 jumps I did not have an AAD, so I am not afraid of not having one....

The 210's are in very high demand and there can be 4 or 5 people competing for access. Add to this students get priority for rental rigs so it can be difficult.

Where on earth are you jumping at that rents student gear with no AAD in it?

I jump without an AAD but it's my rig. And yes I do plan on putting an AAD in it. After watching someone's full face helmet come off of their head and and almost KO me in the face (I wear an open face Gath) I've decided that an AAD might not be a bad idea.

As far as this time share idea of yours personally I'd be stashing money back every time I could until I could afford a rig. I rented gear for 5 years. I'm not married but I had college and all of it's expenses to deal with.

I also was lucky that for a long time Thursday and Fridays were free gear rental so my gear renting expense wasn't anywhere as high as it could have been.

You definitely need to get some gear. Nothing beats consistency under canopy than jumping the same thing every time you jump.

Good Luck, I hope you find the deal of a lifetime. Nothing like owning your own gear

Somehow we've got our lines crossed. I rent gear with an AAD. My first hundred jumps were before Cypres was mainstream (early 90's). All recent jumps have had AAD's.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[nigel99 613]

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Have you seen the student gear that many DZs have ?

To be fair the farm has a reasonable number of rental rigs that are in excellent condition (like I say my favourite rig is has a brand new Sabre 2 210 in it).

If you rent by the day t the farm then the finances work out cheaper than the cost of ownership for my jumping pattern - I am almost certain. It really boils down to thinking of an idea that could give me better access to what I want.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.