should the tube be removed?

[bodypilot90 0]

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PINELLAS PARK, Fla. — One of the nation's longest and most bitter euthanasia battles approached an end with the removal of a feeding tube from a comatose woman, but her parents clung to hope for a legal reversal and Gov. Jeb Bush promised to help.





The tube was removed Wednesday from Terri Schiavo (search), 39, at the Tampa Bay-area hospice where she has lived for several years. She was expected to die within 10 days.

Schiavo's parents have been locked in a legal battle with her husband, Michael Schiavo, who says she would rather die than be kept alive artificially. She has been in a vegetative state since 1990, when her heart stopped because of what doctors said may have been a chemical imbalance.

Bob Schindler said he and his wife, Mary, went in to see their daughter shortly after the tube was removed and gave her a kiss and hugged her. He said his daughter was not as responsive as they claim she normally has been.

"She's OK for the next couple of days," said Suzanne Carr, Terri Schiavo's sister. "We are just going to try to work some magic."

"I have to believe that somebody is doing something, somewhere to stop this judicial homicide," she said.

Wednesday's removal came just hours after Bush told the Schindlers that he was instructing his legal staff to find some means to block a court order allowing Michael Schiavo to end his wife's life. But even the family's lawyer has said their legal remedies have been exhausted.

"I am not a doctor, I am not a lawyer. But I know that if a person can be able to sustain life without life support, that should be tried," the governor said, adding the "ultimate decision of this is in the courts."

Family members were heartened by the governor's last-minute effort.

"The family has not given up hope on Terri," the woman's brother, Bob Schindler Jr., said following a meeting with Bush. "We have spoken to the governor, and he hasn't given up hope either."

Michael Schiavo (search) and his attorney George Felos were not immediately available for comment after the removal of the tube.

Several right-to-die cases across the nation have been fought in the courts in recent years, but few, if any, have been this drawn-out and bitter. The tangled case has already been handled by 19 separate judges and the tube has been ordered removed three times.



At one point 2001, the tube was removed for two days before a judge ordered feeding to be resumed based on new evidence.

About 100 protesters stood outside the hospice Wednesday in what has become a 24-hour vigil staged by advocates for the disabled and anti-abortion activists.

Schiavo's family members believe she is capable of learning how to eat and drink on her own and say she has shown signs of trying to communicate and could be rehabilitated.

Doctors have testified that the noises and facial expressions Terri Schiavo makes are reflexes and do not indicate that she has enough mental capabilities to communicate with others.

The Florida Supreme Court has twice refused to hear the case, and it also has been rejected for review by the U.S. Supreme Court. On Tuesday, a Florida appeals court again refused to block removal of the tube.

The Schindlers first sought to remove Michael Schiavo as his wife's guardian in 1993 after a falling out over her medical care. They say he now has a conflict of interest because he is engaged to another woman and they have a child together.

The family has also leveled allegations that Michael Schiavo has abused Terri Schiavo, although the accusations have not been substantiated.

Michael Schiavo has refused to divorce his wife, saying that he fears her parents would ignore her desire to die if they became her guardians.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

No one really knows what she wanted, I suppose it isn't written anywhere. I voted it should be removed, to me it just doesn't make sense to keep this woman alive if she's been in this state nearing 14 years. For the record, should it ever come to this for me, I beg that someone have me unplugged, I would not want to live that way, and can't understand why anyone else would want to, either. Although I know that some religious folks would because they feel it would otherwise be suicide and they would go to hell.

Angela.

[moodyskydiver 0]

I've made my wishes very clearly known that if something ever happens to me that results in a poor quality of life, then I don't want any life saving measures to be performed. I'm going to have this in (legal) writing in a DNR statement soon aswell as my wishes to be a donor.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[SkydiverRick 0]

Schiavo's family members believe she is capable of learning how to eat and drink on her own and say she has shown signs of trying to communicate and could be rehabilitated.

[JohnnyD 0]

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I've made my wishes very clearly known that if something ever happens to me that results in a poor quality of life, then I don't want any life saving measures to be performed. I'm going to have this in (legal) writing in a DNR statement soon aswell as my wishes to be a donor.

Be careful about getting a DNR. I don't think that is something you want until you are in hospice or are already very sick.
Example: You get in a car wreck and are badly injured. You are in the hospital in critical condition and the medical staff is made aware of the DNR. Even though you may still recover to a reasonable quality of life, they would not attempt to revive you should the situation arise.

[moodyskydiver 0]

Don't worry, I understand. My mom is a hospice nurse and is going thru the stuff with me.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[JohnnyD 0]

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Don't worry, I understand. My mom is a hospice nurse and is going thru the stuff with me.

Wow. Cheers to mom. That is one tough job.

[ltdiver 3]

There was a case back in the late 1980's that sparked this same debate. It was involving a woman, Nancy Cruzan who had been in a single car crash where she was thrown from the vehicle and lay face down in 2 inches of water and drowned.

A passer by, just a few minutes later, came to her 'aid' and did CPR and revived her. For the next 7 years she remained in a vegetative state, hooked up to life support.

Her family fought to have life support removed, and after a decade+ won the right. The feeding tube had to remain in, though.

The day arrived that the life support was indeed removed (after a multitude of court battles) and they waited for this woman to cease breathing. ALL the staff were amazed when she continued to breath...and her heart continued to beat! She continued to 'live'. But, sadly, in a persistant vegetative state.

The court battles that ensued thereafter were heart rending. The feeding tube removal the issue. The family wanted it removed. The 'state' did not.

Then came to the forefront, the definition of 'true brain death'. Higher brain death vs lower brain death. The medical field's definition was that death occured ONLY when the heart stopped beating.

Here is a paper that might explain it. I, for one, would want to be let go if my 'higher brain' or cortex were to be determined by PET scan to be non-functional. The 'lower brain' or brain stem can continue to function....and the heart will beat, the lungs will function. But, there are no brain waves. THIS CAN BE DETERMINED. Read Here.

ltdiver

edit to include Nancy Cruzan's name

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Hazarrd 1]

i gotta say, i dont see any reason to make this woman suffer any longer. its sad that she has to die like that, but she will be in a better place in 2 weeks.

p.s. anyone know why it takes 2 weeks for her to pass on once the tube is taken out? you would think it would be much sooner.

.-.

[ltdiver 3]

The Ethical Debate

It's worth having a 'Living Will' written and legally filed, to have -your- wishes adhered to.

A Gift from the Cruzan Family. A guide in how to go about making -your- will known.

ltdiver

edit to add link for information

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[HeatherB 0]

Well, Terri Schiavo's feeding tube has been put back in place, after almost a week without it:

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGA2H2BV2MD.html

What a mess.

[Luv2Fall 0]

I wonder if there has been any damage to her organs from the last week.......

[Tonto 1]

I voted unplug, and if the same happens to me I'd hope my parents know me well enough (we've had "the chat") to unplug me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[turtlespeed 226]

So...let me get this strait. You have the right to kill your unborn child that has a potential life in front of them, but a woman that is a vegtable, and has been for 12 years, has more rights.

Tell me if I'm missing something.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[AndyMan 7]

The poll options suck, so I didn't vote.

It's not my call if it should be removed or not. I can't make that judgement, after all I've only read about her condition through the media.

That said, the govenor should not make the decision.

The state legislature should not make that decision.

The courts should not make that decision.

The family is the only ones who should make that decision. Since they're conflicted, the decision lies with the closest family member.

The courts should assist the family by establishing the pecking order. Is the husband the closest relative or the parents?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Luv2Fall 0]

What are you talking about? I've neither stated nor implied anything of that nature.

[Jayruss 0]

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Under the measure Bush signed into law Tuesday, Terri Schiavo will soon be appointed a new guardian by the Pinellas Circuit Court to review her case and make recommendations.

This is the worse part, shouldn't her husband be in charge, isn't that a right of marriage that she willingly gave him when they married? I'd hope that my SO would do the right thing in a place like this. In legal battles a spouse has higher standings than parents.

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[turtlespeed 226]

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What are you talking about? I've neither stated nor implied anything of that nature.

I never said you did.

The comment wasn't directed at you personaly, it was general.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Luv2Fall 0]

Understood.......but check out your reference line......you usually reply to whom you are referring. I get emails stating you replied to me.

Throw me off for a sec.......

[turtlespeed 226]

Not replying to you personaly Luv2fall, but the question still stands.

Why are we allowed to take a life of a person, artificially, that hasn't had the chance to live yet, but then a life that has lived, but cannot do so on it's own MUST be spared.

Where is the logic?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Luv2Fall 0]

I don't know really...........the logic in that isn't too sound to me....no rhyme nor reason relative to question as a whole. On a personal note, I don't believe in abortions either.

For this particular lady.....I have extremely mixed feelings...........tube being pulled, who is to say she will not suffer from hunger, etc.....extremely delicate call.

[skycat 0]

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Under the measure Bush signed into law Tuesday, Terri Schiavo will soon be appointed a new guardian by the Pinellas Circuit Court to review her case and make recommendations.

This is the worse part, shouldn't her husband be in charge, isn't that a right of marriage that she willingly gave him when they married? I'd hope that my SO would do the right thing in a place like this. In legal battles a spouse has higher standings than parents.

If it's true that he is engaged to another woman and has a child with her. Also, if it's true that there is a malpractice suit settlement that is pending her death. Then I wonder where his loyalties really lie.

Fly it like you stole it!