billvon 3,116 #51 October 23, 2003 >I don't hear about JEWS in Germany complaining of the same problem . . . ------------------------------ Deadline looms for Nazi war reparations February 15, 1997 Web posted at: 10:00 p.m. EST WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Under a recent agreement between the United States and Germany, Americans who were trapped in World War II Europe and were persecuted during the Holocaust can apply for reparation money. ------------------------------ Dutch Jews Want More War Reparations Rutger van Santen The Hague, 28 January 2000 After five years of investigations and more than a thousand pages of reports, the independent Van Kemenade Commission has recommended that the Dutch government pay 250 million guilders in war reparations to Dutch Jews. --------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #52 October 23, 2003 I have a friend who taught a lot of black kids somewhere near Ft. Lauderdale. All he had to do was phone home and there were no more behavior problems. So, I'm not sure it's fair the way some people are trying to lump black people. When did urban slums started yielding 34 year old grandparents? I can't answer the question, but I don't think it was 50, let alone 150 years ago. So, why'd it start happening? Slavery? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #53 October 23, 2003 Good point!!!! However, I will take it further. There TENDS to be minorities in poor neighborhoods. So, under that generalization, that is the excuse. Minorities though are typically immigrants correct? Well then, why is it then that hipsanics, asians and Recent African immigrants, are succeeding more than the domestic black???? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #54 October 23, 2003 QuoteIs that due to a lack of 3-digit IQs to the right? Just teasing. Exactly. Oh, wait, I mean...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #55 October 23, 2003 Bill, I knew you were going to bring up Jewish reparations. But, there is a distinct difference, there are victims directly connected to the Halocaust which are still living. Going back further say...150 years. Jews were still oppressed. No, they weren't murdered by the millions, but if anything the JEWISH past has helped to make the Jew stronger and more resiliant. Blacks instead have created excuses. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #56 October 23, 2003 OK, i have to leave work now... I will continue the debate later, or tomorrow ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #57 October 23, 2003 Quote>I don't hear about JEWS in Germany complaining of the same problem . . . ------------------------------ Deadline looms for Nazi war reparations February 15, 1997 Web posted at: 10:00 p.m. EST WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Under a recent agreement between the United States and Germany, Americans who were trapped in World War II Europe and were persecuted during the Holocaust can apply for reparation money. ------------------------------ Dutch Jews Want More War Reparations Rutger van Santen The Hague, 28 January 2000 After five years of investigations and more than a thousand pages of reports, the independent Van Kemenade Commission has recommended that the Dutch government pay 250 million guilders in war reparations to Dutch Jews. --------------------------------- But, the German Jews also wanted their stuff back that was stolen, e.g. art. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #58 October 23, 2003 Culture is too complicated a thing to assign simple cause-and-effect to. It's affected by, and interacts with, everything from economics to music to art, the mass media, climate, architecture, other cultures it comes into contact with (such as in the case of slavery) and is CONSTANTLY changing and evolving. There are simply some cultural elements that are more adaptive than others in the modern world (valuing education and hard work, etc.), so over time you would expect the less adaptive ones to become less common or at least adopt aspects of the more successful ones. Reparations to one specific racial group, IMHO, would be encouraging a negative and maladaptive cultural element - the element of looking for handouts for things that happened to your ancestors (defined as: not your immediate family). As an aside, what we undeniably DO need IMHO is MUCH more spending on Head Start programs and other things to help kids growing up in POOR (regardless of race) environments get a fairer shot at a real education and a future. Back on topic, look at how successful a lot of Asian immigrants are. Is it because there's no prejudice against Asians? Certainly not - though there's usually not as much as against blacks. But there are elements of some Asian cultures (and, of course, the self-selection element of voluntary immigrants generally being the ones who are willing to work really hard to succeed) that enable them to overcome a lot of setbacks. By the way, this pattern (of different racial/cultural groups doing better/worse than each other) is repeated in many countries, not just the US. A black historian named Thomas Sowell has written some interesting things on it. ? Just some off the cuff thinking - I'm sure this is something people will have some strong opinions on... Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #59 October 23, 2003 >I knew you were going to bring up Jewish reparations. From your post: "I don't hear about JEWS in Germany complaining of the same problem . . ." I didn't bring it up, just rebutted your claim that the jews do not seek reparations. They do. > but if anything the JEWISH past has helped to make the Jew > stronger and more resiliant. And someday the black past may make them stronger and more resilient. Or it may not. In either case, they will remain people first and foremost, and blacks, jews, catholics, arabs etc second, despite people's prejudices. And here's something that may blow your mind - there are black jews. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harksaw 0 #60 October 23, 2003 I want reparations, because my ancestors did NOT benefit from slave labor and therefore my family ever since has been put at a disadvantage from the rest of America.__________________________________________________ I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #61 October 23, 2003 >But, the German Jews also wanted their stuff back that was stolen, e.g. art. Right, and I think that's justifiable. If a country has stolen things from you, or put you in prison for years, you might be entitled to compensation. But not your great grandkids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #62 October 23, 2003 Quote There are simply some cultural elements that are more adaptive than others in the modern world (valuing education and hard work, etc.), so over time you would expect the less adaptive ones to become less common or at least adopt aspects of the more successful ones. Reparations to one specific racial group, IMHO, would be encouraging a negative and maladaptive cultural element - the element of looking for handouts for things that happened to your ancestors (defined as: not your immediate family). Yes, if the monies were let out, say for instance, depending on the amount of work done in the classroom, and how well the scores on the test were, mom and dad would then be held accountable for helping the kids learn. If they didn't then there would be noone else to blame but themselves. In turn, there would be a greater challenge to do better. The kids would have more and there would be less time for drugs and other socially destructive habits. Look, if I can learn to skydive, and continue learning to skydive, everything and anything is possible. It's a function of how bad you want it, and a function of who want's it more. F**K this anti challenge doctrine that we are trying to integrate into our schools now, let's give em somthing to work for.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #63 October 23, 2003 I'll admit my opinion - Thomas Sowell is a brilliant man... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #64 October 23, 2003 Agree 100%. I am not in favor of reparations. The point I was trying to make is that I don't think we can simply ignore the plight of the black culture in America and pretend that there are no lingering effects of wrongs inflicted on them by others on their current situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #65 October 23, 2003 This is true. Move the decimal one place to the left and look what you have - a LEFTIE! Just kidding. However, I've got a MUST READ link on reparations: http://www.drbukk.com/reparations/redneckreparations.htmlVinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #66 October 23, 2003 True, but what do you propose we do about it, other than simply keep it in mind as a tiny part of everything else we know about the world? Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #67 October 23, 2003 If I knew that answer, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you yahoos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #68 October 23, 2003 QuoteAgree 100%. I am not in favor of reparations. The point I was trying to make is that I don't think we can simply ignore the plight of the black culture in America and pretend that there are no lingering effects of wrongs inflicted on them by others on their current situation. I think you should be (correctly) indicting the educational system in general. Teach people in ghettos how to communicate in English! Not ebonics! Not rap! I think part of the problem is their parents can't... -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #69 October 23, 2003 Word! Wha'ch'u say, man, that's the shiznit, homey!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #70 October 23, 2003 I completely agree with that as well. But more effort and more funding needs to be directed at those who are at a disadvantage because of their home environment, and I don't see many right wingers willing to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #71 October 23, 2003 I don't think headstart, etc makes much of a difference. It may be a valid idea, but the follow up isn't there. I do think that making school taxes state-wide rather than local and getting rid on tenure would help. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #72 October 23, 2003 If you could define what a disadvantage is, and guarantee that the funds allotted would make a difference, then i would see a lot of "right wingers" willing to do that. Senselessly throwing away money with no hope of a return on the investment is stupid.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #73 October 23, 2003 QuoteIf you could define what a disadvantage is, and guarantee that the funds allotted would make a difference, Disadvantage = being raised in a poor neighborhood and therefore going to a school without books printed in the last 20 years, with over crowded class rooms, with under trained teachers, and no money for extra-curricular activities. guarantee that it would make a difference? Compare inner city schools to suburban schools. Forget about race for a second and look at teacher/student ratio, funding per student, etc. and then look at the test scores and college entry percentages. Of course there are problems with the parents and it should be the parent's responsibility to raise their child properly. But that's not happening. We have to decide as a society if we're ok with letting that continue and just blame the parents, or concentrate on these kids while their still impressionable and helping them to rise above their parents and grow in society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #74 October 23, 2003 Quote Of course there are problems with the parents and it should be the parent's responsibility to raise their child properly. But that's not happening. We have to decide as a society if we're ok with letting that continue and just blame the parents, or concentrate on these kids while their still impressionable and helping them to rise above their parents and grow in society. I say no, we as a society will never accept that. I also refer you to the option I introduced earlier, make the parents accountable . . . Not neccessarily in that manner, but at least give some kind of incentive, make it earnable. Make it a challenge.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #75 October 23, 2003 Just a stray thought on this... You know, politicians are the same regardless of nationality & colour... "Vote for ME and get free money!" Louis Farrakhan (?) isn't all that different. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
