An L.A. Story (a sad one too)

[storm1977 0]

Well Andy thanks for your support. Maybe I shouldn't have gotten engaged to my Fiancee', maybe I should go talk to a shrink and find out what these thought and feeling really mean.

That is a sad tactic that everyone like to use. I am glad you said that.

If in public you speak out about problems in black communities and say anything negative, you are labled a Racist. Even if what you say is true.

If you speak out again gays well then logically I must be secretly gay.... Yup that's it. Dude, I am sorry but I am loosing respect for you here.

So, what is my problem?
My problem is State sponsored discrimination. Because you know what... it never works. Someone always looses, and it costs all of us time and money. Everyone thinks discrimination against minority groups (gay, black etc...) is bad, but you know what... reverse discrimination is just as bad.

You don't right a wrong with another wrong.

If you can't understand that, then I am sorry.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[AndyMan 7]

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So, what is my problem?
My problem is State sponsored discrimination. Because you know what... it never works. Someone always looses, and it costs all of us time and money. Everyone thinks discrimination against minority groups (gay, black etc...) is bad, but you know what... reverse discrimination is just as bad.

What's discrimination? You asked if they could create a straight only place, and the very clear answer has been YES. I've posed the question does anyone want to live there, is anyone calling for one, if there was one would you live there, and the presumed answer is NO. There isn't one because nobody wants one.

There are no striaght-villages in cities around the world.

There are no straight support groups at colleges and universities.

There are no groups of people meeting in church basements trying to understand their straight-ness.

Nobody wants one. Period.

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If you can't understand that, then I am sorry.

What are you sorry for? I'm certainly not.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[storm1977 0]

Luckily I don't live in Cali, because if I did, I certainly would want to be paying for this home. See, this is the issue, it is not like they just allocated some money from no where and are building it.

They are using taxpayers money, and this home does not provide much exept for a few old gay people.

I would pose the same arguement if it was a Black Retirement home.

That is not right, and, IMO the state does not have the right to build discrimitory housing on my buck!!!
So, your right people aren't lining looking for the straight retirement home,

But I haven't heard of any discrimintory crime toward the gay elderly by the straight elderly...Have you? Is this such a problem?

So instead of intermingling with the rest of the elderly population, we can pu them in one spot. That way when the straight elderly people want to mock them, they know where to go to do it!!!!
That is a brilliant idea... shit I wish I saw it that way in the begininng would have saved me all this time.

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[AndyMan 7]

If you're going to get righteously indignant, at least pick something worthwhile, otherwise people will question your motives.

There's a lot of wrongs going on in this country every day. Pick one where somebody is actually getting hurt, then wave THAT banner. People will think more highly of you.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[storm1977 0]

Well, I have in that past and the tread get hijacked into Democrats vs. Republicans.... Bush vs. Clinton.

I am so sick of those threads.

But hey, I didn't ask you post here. If you don't like the thread that is fine. It doesn't need your stamp of approval.

My point wasn't to bring light to all the worlds problems, my point was bring something which was in the news to the table to have a discussion...

What's the problem??? Does this one hit too close to home for you or what?

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[BikerBabe 0]

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I would pose the same arguement if it was a Black Retirement home.

well, here's the thing. Based on the law as explained above and scrutiny of certain groups, the issue of an all-black retirment home is a completely different (albeit related) one than that of an all-gay retirement home.

The all-black retirement home would be subject to strict scrutiny as defined above by lawrocket.

The all-gay retirement home is not. There are no laws on the books that define homosexuals as a suspect class (a la race or religion), or even as an intermediate class (a la gender).

So you could try to pose the same argument, but it wouldn't legally hold water. In order to legally fight against something like this, you'd have to allow that which you seem to be opposed to.

Meaning that constitutional protections would first have to be extended to include sexual orientation as well as race, religion, etc before you could legally fight something like this.

So in essence, you are arguing for gay rights! WTG, storm!!

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[lawrocket 3]

Bikerbabe, you just brought a tear to my eye...

If you want a letter of recommendation, you let me know.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[BikerBabe 0]

LOL!!!



I've always been an arguer. Bad logic is one of my pet peeves.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[storm1977 0]

Well, I am conservative, but if gays are truly an oppressed people that apparently have to have their own place to live because of fear, then yes I agree I would argue for gay rights.

I don't really like the idea of homosexuality, but that really doesn't matter here. There are a lot of things I don't agree with.

However, if people are infact gay by no choice of there own, then yes I believe as a group they should be equally represented and protected under the law. That is only fair. And, taking that a step further, they should not be given preferencial treatment.

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[WrongWay 0]

DISCLAIMER: Okay, this is a topic that really pisses me off. Odds are, this thread is gonna turn into one of my many rants. Please either take this in with an open mind, or ignore me. Also, take note I am not prejudice in ANY way, and can't stand people that are. Thanks!!

This is where a minority of some kind (and no I'm not talking racial minority, think bigger) is whining that they want something different than the average Joe. I hate it when this happens. It's one of those things like black universities. It's discrimination, not towards the minority, but towards the general public. I think the only way to do away with racism, sexism, and every other thing that makes people think they can do this is STOP LETTING THEM DO IT.

I think everyone should have the same opportunities, no matter their race, sex, sexual orientation, or anything else. There should be no minority schools, no minority scholarships, no special treatment to anyone.

You think you deserve a medal if you've been discriminated against, or worse yet, if your ancestors were??? You can talk to me for hours about how your ancestors were slaves for a couple hundred years, or how they couldn't vote, or couldn't get an education. That doesn't mean you deserve shit, sorry. You wanna talk about things like that, here ya go. Jews were enslaved by the egyptians for what, like a 1000 years??? Romans had slaves, of ALL races, sexual orientations. There are still countries where women can't vote, and gays are thrown in jail. People, this is America. It's the land of EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, not the land of "I'm different and have special needs". For Christ's sake, be thankful of where you live, what you have, and the fact that you have the right just to live life the way you choose. Don't think that somebody owes you something just cuz you're not what society labels "normal".

The moral of the story is: I don't care what makes someone different, whether it be sexual orientation (as in this case), race, sex, religion, or whatever. No matter what it is, you are not special. You should not get special treatment. You are a human being and a US citizen just like the rest of us, so act like it, and quit your whining about your "special needs", cuz if ya ask me, if you have the gall to request them, then you don't deserve them.

Okay, I'm done ranting, thanks!!!!!

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Zlew 0]

<>

With the exception of Cali, some might say, the US isn't a socialist state. Retirement housing isn't something that is a condition of beinga tax payer. In the US that is all private industry. So I can see how if geting retirement housing was part of the deal, you might want to have housing for everyone (even though that is sexist/racist/ gender and sexaul orien. biased....) but that's not the system in the US.
I've never heard of the goverment giving housing for the elderly in the US. Does seem odd to spend 18 million on it. Maybe that is a tax break or land grant for a private company?
Z

[BikerBabe 0]

hmmm....I think if you asked most gays, they would tell you they don't want SPECIAL treatment, they want EQUAL treatment under the law.

Right now, in most places, it is perfectly, legally OK to deny someone something if they happen to be gay. A landlord can refuse to lease to someone who is gay. An employer can refuse to hire someone who is gay.

I am all for a law that disallows these practices. Is that special treatment? Is that any more than anyone else in this country is getting? REALLY?

Whereas, it is NOT legally OK to deny someone employment because they are black or because they happen to worship pink elephants. Does that mean that African Americans fought for and won "special treatment?" Is not allowing an employer to discriminate against Buddhists "special treatment" for buddhists?

They don't want something "different than the average Joe." They want the same as the average Joe is getting.

How is prevention of discrimination considered special treatment?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[WrongWay 0]

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hmmm....I think if you asked most gays, they would tell you they don't want SPECIAL treatment, they want EQUAL treatment under the law.

Right now, in most places, it is perfectly, legally OK to deny someone something if they happen to be gay. A landlord can refuse to lease to someone who is gay. An employer can refuse to hire someone who is gay.

I am all for a law that disallows these practices. Is that special treatment? Is that any more than anyone else in this country is getting? REALLY?

Whereas, it is NOT legally OK to deny someone employment because they are black or because they happen to worship pink elephants. Does that mean that African Americans fought for and won "special treatment?" Is not allowing an employer to discriminate against Buddhists "special treatment" for buddhists?

They don't want something "different than the average Joe." They want the same as the average Joe is getting.

How is prevention of discrimination considered special treatment?

This isn't prevention of discrimination though. It's denying the "average joe" access to whatever they would be building. I'm saying everything for everyone. True, it's legal to deny them other priveleges, and that is very wrong. But the matter at hand is getting extra stuff just because they're gay/lesbian/trans. If they wanted to be away from "the society that shuns them" they should move out, plain and simple. Haven't you heard the saying "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"? Look, if you think I'm discriminating, then you have my ideas all mixed up. I have no problem with gays, lesbians. I have many friends that are gay/les, and they're all wonderful human beings, and I wouldn't change a thing about any of them. I'm just saying that if one of them came to me and said "Hey check it out, I'm getting a scholarship cuz I'm gay", I would plainly state my opinion that that is not right. Equal opportunity, yes, but special priveleges (like special facilities), no.

IMHO, it's things like that which separate us within our own country. If we're truly going to live free and equal, we need to forget the scales of who society owes what, and who deserves what kind of special treatment. We're free. We're Americans. It's as simple as that, and anyone who tries to have more right than others is just rekindling old flames of discrimination, whether they meant it that way or not.

Take the phrase "All men created equal". They didn't mean "The gays can have this and that cuz we owe them, and same for this race, or this gender, and then everybody else gets this". EVERYBODY is the same, and EVERYBODY deserves the same things. We should not be separated, segregated, or overpriveleged, and minorities, whether it be in sexual preference, race, religion, whatever, should not be able to use that excuse to get something.

That's all i'm saying, not slamming anybody, not holding anyone up. I'm just saying everyone needs to be equal, forget who's gay, who works on a farm, who lives with their aunt. I don't give a shit what you are like, or what your qualities are, as long as you're a good person I'll be your friend, respect you, and defend you to the death. But if you use something like your sex. pref. or race or whatever to get something you want, or to get a special privelege, that's just pushing discrimination.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[AndyMan 7]

Do you think building womens restrooms is discriminatory because men aren't allowed in?

Is it a bad thing?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 3,120]

>Do you think building womens restrooms is discriminatory because men aren't allowed in?

It would be if it was a government building - and they didn't build men's rooms as well.

[WrongWay 0]

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Do you think building womens restrooms is discriminatory because men aren't allowed in?

Is it a bad thing?

_Am

Well of course it's a bad thing!!!

Seriously, when you think of ridiculous things like that, sure, they can be separated for privacy, like if I didn't want people to see my meat flopping around. But that's an issue of privacy, not an issue of discrimination.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Michele 1]

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Right now, in most places, it is perfectly, legally OK to deny someone something if they happen to be gay. A landlord can refuse to lease to someone who is gay. An employer can refuse to hire someone who is gay.

Exactly what my broker said when I asked him for clarification. And then he added "but for the record, Michele, if I ever catch you doing something like that, I'll fire your butt so fast you won't know what hit you...". But he knows I wouldn't, nor would I even represent a seller who said "no gays in this house!". It's against my personal morals.

However...

As there are no laws prohibiting it, (lawrockets explanation is great), the only course of action would be someone suing the city. And then you would have to prove you were damaged. And there is no way to be damaged, imho, in the above situation, because there's nothing to be damaged by.

I think, though, that Storm is confusing practicality with legality. Is it legal? Yes.... is it an appropriate use of the $18,000,000? Probably not. But that's just my opinion, based on nothing other than hot air. I have no idea if there is a reasonable need for something like this...and personally, I would rather see the money go toward early childhood centers, or after school centers. Places where the impact can be "spread" and ripple outward. But that's my own personal opinion...which honestly amounts to not much more than beans.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Tonto 1]

I can't argue your point of view. I'm not American, not a tax payer, don't live there and don't have any of the legal knowledge that others that have posted have. I just think it's better to support people than fail them, particularly when they have contributed to an ecconomy for their whole lives. Just an opinion. A point of view.

t

It's the year of the Pig.