AggieDave 6 #1 October 27, 2003 How long before someone states that the fires were acts of terrorism? From what I've heard/seen folks are thinking that they were started by arson, so I'm wondering if/when someone will put that together and try to make an arguement for it. My take on it is that this is a horrible event and my throughts and prayers are out to all of those effected or even with the chance being effected by the fires. As for the terrorist connection? Hell, I don't know, I doubt it though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #2 October 27, 2003 I gotta admit that while watching the news last night, the thought did cross my mind that this would be a very effective and easy act for terrorists to carry out. Scary thought. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybabe76 0 #3 October 27, 2003 It's too early to speculate. "If you're going to be stupid, you better be tough!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauras 0 #4 October 27, 2003 Huge fires of this scale happen pretty frequently in CA. Most Californians view the fires as a "normal" natural disaster, much like mudslides, earthquakes, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #5 October 27, 2003 Quote AggieDave Geronimo Oct 27, 2003, 1:44 PM Post #1 of 4 (51 views) Copy Shortcut Question about the fires. Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long before someone states that the fires were acts of terrorism? From what I've heard/seen folks are thinking that they were started by arson, so I'm wondering if/when someone will put that together and try to make an arguement for it. Looks like it was Oct 27, 2003, 1:44 PM my time when someone suggested some connection.....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 October 27, 2003 By "someone" I was suggesting a media outlet or government official.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #7 October 27, 2003 QuoteHuge fires of this scale happen pretty frequently in CA. Most Californians view the fires as a "normal" natural disaster, much like mudslides, earthquakes, etc. Yep. I lived in California for most of my first 30 years. We pretty much viewed it as normal for half the state to burn down every five years or so. Then again, I view it as normal to hop off a building a couple times a week. Crazy the things you can get used to, isn't it?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #8 October 27, 2003 Aggie, I would not especulate, for the arson investigators usually find and document the origins and causes of fires."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 October 27, 2003 Know what? I am pleased that people haven't gone that direction. Not everything that happens is caused by terrorists...and we have some seriously sick people in our midst, terrorist or not. It is at this time of year that we are on "fire alert". Traditionally, weather patterns have set up so that we have the Santa Anas, which, as seen, can blow at over 60 mph. Combine that with a dry winter (meaning we haven't had much rain this last year), and you have tinderbox stuff ringing the area. Wildfires rage with unfortunate frequency...the reason it came down into the residential areas was a dreadful combination of weather/winds/not enough firefighters. And traditionally, the arsonists in the area know that these weather factors combine, and will set them at this point. Additionally, some of the fires are NOT arson, but other reasons (arcing power lines, sparks from motorcycle pegs, etc....) None of that means it wasn't terrorists. However, because it is such a "regular" occurance, it's almost like blaming an earthquake on a terrorist, too...it is part of the area culture, part of the environment. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 October 27, 2003 Quoteit's almost like blaming an earthquake on a terrorist, too... Give it time, that too will be postulated by the "talking heads."--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #11 October 27, 2003 LOL, there is a book - can't remember who wrote it or what it's called - where that is posited. Interesting read, but obviously not interesting enough for me to recall details! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #12 October 27, 2003 I am glad as you are too Michele. You may want to also put next to terrorist, that if it's not their fault is the US' or GWB for that matter, We could put them in the same bandwagoon..."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #13 October 27, 2003 QuoteBy "someone" I was suggesting a media outlet or government official. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dont even say it.. i can already feel a new war on its way,but then agan some people might want a new war so we again can stop thinking on whats going on different places in the world right now...(by who in the front) Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #14 October 27, 2003 they have already confirmed that the fire was started by a lost hiker and his signal fire. They know who he is and charges are pending... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #15 October 27, 2003 Quotethey have already confirmed that the fire was started by a lost hiker and his signal fire. They know who he is and charges are pending... huh how can you charge a person that try to signal for help.. its one big (bad)movie thank good no war were neededpoor guy he´s gonna be ruined the rest of his life... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #16 October 27, 2003 I agree, the dude was lost and its not like he started the fire on purpose...guess thats why charges are "pending" and they are still determining whether or not they want to or can press the charges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #17 October 27, 2003 I'll have to agree with Tom and Michelle.. Fall and fires are pretty much a given in California. My first year here, I remember seeing my first brush fire where 4 or 5 hills were burned. I remember wanting so badly to go and help in fear of the town burning. I also remember the Oakland hills firestorm and how devastating that was. Having seen it firsthand, it was almost as if I had stepped into hell I hate to say it and this is just my opinion, but it seems like a high percentage of these fires were the result of arson, especially in SoCal.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 October 27, 2003 We have four seasons in SoCal - fire, earthquake, flood and riot. Fires are just a natural part of life, though these ones are particularly bad. It wasn't a terrorist who made the weather so damned hot, nor did a terrorist whip up the Santa Ana winds. They happen all the time. It's just that there is a lot of tinder dry foliage, and some of this stuff hasn't gone up in probably at least 30 years. Watch out for rainy season, though, when the denuded hillsides turn into an uninterrupted mud flow... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #19 October 27, 2003 Hi, Funks.... That's one single fire down in San Diego. There are easily 8 others in Southern California...Simi Valley/Porter Ranch; San Bernardino; Old Waterman/Crestline; Temecula/Hemit; Malibu; Lake Piru; the 3 in San Diego (sorry, don't know their names - I think one is Pendleton, The Scripps Ranch, and the one BillV is in the middle of - but not positive). So far, they are suspecting arson in at least: ~One in San Diego (not sure which one, sorry...) ~Old Waterman/Crestline (suspects seen) ~Val Verde/Simi Valley (suspicious circumstances) ~Malibu (suspects seen, fire contained quickly - only 25 acres...Thank God) People don't realize how farspread these fires are. They stretch from the border of Mexico to north of Los Angeles by at least 30 miles. I heard it described as an area the size of 1/2 of Rhode Island which has been burned...but I am not sure. Just trying to give you the larger picture... And the sad thing is there are lots and lots of places that haven't yet burned...and still may. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #20 October 27, 2003 October 27, 2003 Editor's note: Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin is a weekly online, subscription intelligence news service from the creator of WorldNetDaily.com – a journalist who has been developing sources around the world for the last 25 years. © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com As arson wildfires consumed nearly 200,000 acres in Southern California, destroying 850 homes and killing at least 13, the inevitable question arises: Who started the fires? While firefighters focus on containing the blazes rather than the detective work necessary to prosecute arsonists, many are wondering about a possible connection with terrorism. In August, Australian authorities launched an investigation into reports al-Qaida planned to spark bushfires in a new wave of devastating terror attacks. A June 25 FBI memo to United States law enforcement agencies revealed a senior al-Qaida detainee claimed to have developed a plan to start midsummer forest fires in the U.S. The terrorist hoped to mimic the destruction that devastated Canberra last summer, killing four people and destroying more than 500 homes, as well as in other parts of Australia. The memo, obtained by the Arizona Republic newspaper, said an unidentified detainee revealed he hoped to create several large, catastrophic wildfires at once. "The detainee believed that significant damage to the U.S. economy would result and once it was realized that the fires were terrorist acts, U.S. citizens would put pressure on the U.S. government to change its policies," the memo said. The detainee told investigators his plan called for three or four operatives to travel to the U.S. and set timed explosive devices in forests and grasslands. "Australian security authorities are aware of reports that al-Qaida has considered starting bushfires in the U.S. as a form of terrorist attack," said a spokeswoman Australian Attorney General Daryl Williams. "Arson attacks are just one of a wide range of scenarios which have been considered as part of our investigations into al-Qaida's ability to conduct attacks in Australia." In fact, Arab terrorists in Israel have started dozens of major forest fires over the years. And al-Qaida has been known to learn from and take inspiration from the activities of Palestinian Arab terrorists – who, for instance, first pioneered airline hijackings. As far back as 1988, Israeli police caught more than a dozen Palestinian adults in the act of setting fires, while other Arabs confessed to arson after arrest. Some fires followed specific calls by underground Arab terrorists. A leaflet issued by the Palestinian uprising's underground leadership called for ''the destruction and burning of the enemy's properties, industry and agriculture.'' Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir said at the time: ''The need to set fires, which also leads to murders, is in my eyes worse than fundamentalism.'' Israeli nature reserve authorities said 408 fires in May and June of 1988 destroyed 400,000 acres of land, nearly seven times the acreage burned from 1974 to 1986. Last year, Gilad "Gidi" Mastai, chief ranger in the Galilee region of Israel, told the Jerusalem Post: "It's extremely hard to find arsonists, just like it's hard to close off the Green Line to terrorists. The forests here are on the front line." But, he said, the vast majority of deliberate fires are started by Arabs with political motives. Forest rangers often need the help of the Israel Defense Forces to battle the terror blazes. Arson cases account for one-third of Israeli forest fires. "Political" arsonists cause the most with negligent hikers a close second. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDolphin 0 #21 October 27, 2003 Sadly, it's the nature of the post 9/11 world we live in to think of terrorism in some capacity when we see something devastating happen in this country. Whether we think, "Gosh, I hope it wasn't an act ot terrorism." or "Gee, I wonder if people are going to expect terrorism.", the fact of the matter is, terrorism is and will be on all our minds for a long time to come. Rhonda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #22 October 27, 2003 Quote...the fact of the matter is, terrorism is and will be on all our minds for a long time to come. Roger, that. I read it earlier on another site and did not really think of the relativity until AggieDave made the suggestion. Just like the earlier bombing today, who would have thought that the tangos would have used/or disguised an ambulance as a car bomb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #23 October 27, 2003 We would have gotten a call from the terror outfits propaganda guy claiming reponsability by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #24 October 27, 2003 QuoteWe would have gotten a call from the terror outfits propaganda guy claiming reponsability by now. Not necissarly. That's the point of terror groups, tangos want to make you scared, ruin your lives, get the causes known, not always get famous.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #25 October 28, 2003 I know one thing. I had to hold my hand over my beer last night to keep the ashes out. By the time I left this morning I was just about feeling sick from breathing all that smoke. For anyone visiting San Diego....what a kick ass place when it isn't on fire. Make sure you go to the Rockin Baja Lobster for dinner. Oh man.....get a bucket and go to town!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
