Should I press charges?

[skymama 37]

I'm against pressing charges. Even though she is 16, she's still a kid full of emotions, hormones, problems and probably because of her situation is full of anger at the world. I'm sure it's not entirely her fault that she is now in a group home and she probably resents the hell out of it. I wonder when is the last time she had an adult in her life that she could actually trust and who believed in her. I'm not saying YOU have the be that person, I'm just saying give her another chance. Sit her down and tell her that her behavior is not acceptable in your classroom, and that this is her warning. If she does anything like that again, let her know the severity of the situation and that you will press charges and explain how much worse that will be than the situation she is already in. Good luck Lisa with whatever you decide to do.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Jayruss 0]

I'm not that old but so teachers were not permitted to spank kids, so the few times I was bad they would call home. Let's say I would have rather had a teacher spanking. But of course I had a dad that cared enough to give a good spanking. In fact I remember a day at school when my dad left work and came to school to discipline my brother for something he said to the teacher.

It's too bad that parents now a days find the teachers guilty rather than their kids.

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[ChileRelleno 0]

Press charges.
I know its a "IF"... But what if that pencil took your eye out? Problem kids need to know that actions have reactions and that there are consequences to be paid.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[Luv2Fall 0]

Quote

Odd, we didn't have problems like that back when I was in school. If you acted up you were going to get your ass worn out with the paddle.....period. Likewise, if you showed your ass at home, your parents wore your butt out with a switch.

Fuck that "kindler and gentle" shit.

Chuck

Amen to that! It was nothing to see a teacher slap the shit out of a kid.......kid would straighten up..........parents would deal out worse.....I turned out fine. I got what I deserved because I freakin knew better, period.

[Nightingale 0]

have you read the student's file? there should be some information in there about her situation...

as a former teacher, personally, I would not press charges over an incident like that.

I had a student who was extremely disruptive in class, throwing things, shouting, etc... even took a swing at me once. detentions and suspensions didn't do a whole lot of good, neither did phone calls home. he was 13 years old. I did some digging into his file... found out he lived with his grandparents, who were getting on in years, when both his parents died in a car crash the year before. I chatted with the principal, got the details... He and his younger brother were in the crash, in the back seat. His father wasn't wearing a seat belt and was basically decapitated by the windshield. His mother died of brain trauma a few days later.

So, I sat him down and we had a long chat about his behavior. It basically began with me saying "ok. sit. talk to me. what's going on?" he shrugged..."I dunno..." me: "you do know." he finally opened up to me and explained, amid quite a few tears, exactly what was going on at home and how angry he was about everything... We had a talk about how he needed to set a good example for his younger brother, because his younger sib didn't have anyone else to look up to anymore. I expressed to him how difficult his behavior was making life for me, and for the other students, trying to let him see the situation from someone else's perspective.

I spoke with the grandparents, who were very anti-counseling, which was my first suggestion. My second suggestion was a martial arts class, which would at least let him work out some of that anger by hitting punching bags instead of people. They liked this idea, so I recommended a local school.

We also worked out a reward system... he was very into computers, as am I. We agreed that for each day of good behavior, I would make a star on the back of a card... if he earned 20 stars, I would teach him basic website design. After 4 and a half weeks or so (a bad day here and there, but a marked improvement), he'd earned his 20 stars and I taught him how to create a basic site. We spent about three hours after school working on it. Then, he started asking more questions about more advanced design... I said "that'll cost you five more stars." so we set up a barter system. Worked very well, and by the end of the year, he had a ROCKIN' site.

He's now a junior in high school and doing pretty well...he's got his green belt in martial arts, still into web design, and I still get emails from him every so often.


Its really a tough call...some kids you can reach, some kids you can't. You just have to try your best, and hope another teacher can reach the ones you can't seem to help. The kids who actually benefit by a teacher pressing charges are the ones with the "I'll never get caught, it won't happen to me" attitudes. Feeling handcuffs around their wrists is a pretty heavy dose of reality. The kids with the emotional issues are another story...

my one suggestion to you is: concentrate on what she's doing RIGHT instead of what she's doing wrong. write a compliment on every assignment, even if its just "nice handwriting" or "good effort" encourage her to speak up in class, and even if her answer's wrong, say something like "not quite, but I like the way you're thinking." its so much easier to worry about the behavior problem and social issues, but a positive comment here and there can really make a difference.

and if it doesn't work, at least you know you've tried.

Best of luck!!!!!!!

(((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[PLFKING 4]

Chuck said it as well as I could. I got my ass tanned regularly growing up, but it was because of my actions that warranted it. And outside of a few run-ins with the law in my younger days, I would say that having my tail whupped help me learn the difference between right and wrong, and has made me a standup guy as far as accepting responsibility for my actions.

Quote

But it isn't the teacher's place. Teachers should teach. Parents should parent. The failure of one doesn't mean the other must automatically fulfill both roles. They can't.

That's true...they can't. But paddling a kid's ass for misbehaving after repeated warnings is miles away from child abuse, in my book. And if the parents won't do it, and the teachers can't do it, then America's setting itself up for a hard fall in the future.....and I don't think anyone could disagree that the fall has already started. I don't think the elimination of corporal punishment in the schools is the only reason, or even a major one, but it has certainly been a contributing factor. That's just my opinion.....I'm not saying that's right, or wrong, or even agreeable to most people.....it's just mine.


Don

"When in doubt I whip it out,
I got me a rock-and-roll band.
It's a free-for-all."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

So, if I understand what you are saying, teaching should include ONLY academics. Respect is not an academic subject. it something that is taught though.

No, respect is something that is earned.

Quote

But if the system wasn't as damn soft as it is now, perhaps Colombine wouldn't have happened.

I have a hard time blaming that on teachers and the "system" whatever that is. In my days, discipline meant having your parents spoken to. Then the parents would further deal out discipline if they saw fit. Teachers aren't always right.

I find that these issues occur do to a lack of a family life or family interaction. I tend to believe that children interact with parents far less these days than they did say 10 or 20 years ago.

Allowing teachers to hit their pupils wouldn't solve anything, it would just further generate an environment of violence.

[mcrocker 0]

Yes, Press charges, drop them later if it ever turns into a real issue. Make her accountable for her actions, My bet is no one has ever held her accountable before and she just might learn something.

Just my $0.02

[AndyMan 7]

I most certainly do not have all the answers.

That said, I am increasingly uncomfortable with the trend within schools to turn to the legal system for discipline problems.

There are some cases where students are in need of the criminal system. Attacks with guns and knives, students clearly threatening others with weapons, or realistic physical harm are good examples.

From reading what you've posted, while you're shocked I don't think you really felt your life was in danger. Nor does it seem like the student intended to harm you physically. She threw a pencil after all, not the desk.

I don't have the answers, so I can't tell you what you should do. I think there's a major problem where schools in general just don't have the tools to deal with problem kids. While I personally applaud the move away from corporal punishment, there needs to be an answer thats stronger then "detention", but not suspention or criminal charges. I don't think that answer currently exists in most schools.

I can't tell you what the answer should be... but I'm pretty sure the answer is not criminal.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[chaoskitty 0]

I agree with Skymama. I think that pressing charges is a bit extreme in this case.
It sounds like this girl needs to feel like someone gives a damn about her. I grew up with plenty of privildeges, excellent parenting, and lots of love, but it was still tough in the teenage years. Many posts on this thread talk about letting the parents discipline the children. This girl doesnt have parents. Her life is probably based upon a constant change of routine. She may not even know which way is up right now.
I'm probably over-simplifying here.. but it sounds like she needs a hug, and a little time, and guidance in trying to adjust to her new environment.

One more thing, IMO, spanking a sixteen year old girl will not have the same effect as spanking a five year old for disciplinary reasons.

[miked10270 0]

Hi Lisa,

I'd strongly advise you to press charges for assault. The child DID assault you by throwing the pencil at you even though it missed.

Firstly, let's define assault: "A physical action or attack intended to have physical effect on another."

As such the child assaulted you by throwing the pencil at you, admittedly to your non-injury but that was a result of good luck combined with a lack of skill on the child's part (WHY am I saying "child" about a 16 year old? In almost every country in the world a 16 year old IS an adult and is certainly held to be criminally responsible).

Yes, the child obviously "has issues". One of the major issues this child has is accepting that her behaviour has to allow for the common good. She does not have the right to behave as she pleases but must accept authority and discipline. SHe should also have to take the consequences of her actions. In this case she has assaulted you and if the consequences of this is an appearance in some juvenile court or panel then so be it.

Children and the emotionally immature in general lack the ability to see things from another person's point of view. They only learn the boundary between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour by exploring and finding these boundaries. In not pressing charges you are failing to show this child where this particular boundary is.

Regards,

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[weegegirl 2]

Abuse is wrong. Saying something like "slap the shit out of a kid" is wrong. Think about it, say it to yourself ... "slap the shit out of a kid."

What???????????

<<>>>

I'm not saying that all physical discipline is bad - but most is. Think back to when you were in school. Were all your teachers GOOD teachers? Should all of your teachers have been given the right to beat students?

Beatings were part of our generation. I was slapped around a lot as a kid - not severely - not "abused" - but probably to the extent that most of you were. It usually scared me and confused me. It treated the symptoms but not the problem itself. Physical abuse has a strong tendency to lead to insecurity and aggression as an adult.

I am a firm believer in community service. Kids HATE spending their weekends helping others. BUT, it teaches them a few things: like, there are people out there who have worse problems then they do; and, there are positive and constructive ways of dealing with problems.

a slap is quick, negative, and can be misleading. community service or other such activiites can be positive, life changing events.

[wmw999 2,583]

Yeah, me too. She'll figure it out soon enough, and I have a feeling Mouth is consistent enough that the girl knows that what she did wasn't acceptable anyway.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jfields 0]

Quote

You would trust teachers to teach your kids, but not to discipline them? They seem equally important to me. I would be just as unhappy with a teacher who taught that the world is flat as I would be with a teacher who had kids running around the room screaming all day.

I trust teachers to do both, within certain limits. I'd be unhappy with the teacher teaching a flat earth also. Teachers should discipline as well, to a degree. I think corporal punishment is over the line. A good teacher can be amazingly effective without ever laying a hand on a kid. When more severe discipline is called for, drag the parents into school (in the middle of the day) and force them to be inconvienced by their child, and to know what the child did so they can continue the punishment at home.

No kids run around screaming in my wife's class, and she doesn't have to beat them to instill discipline.

Quote

Same thing that happens when a kid acts up behind him/her and they get sent to detention. I would be amazed if there was anyone out there who had _not_ experienced this sort of unfairness as a kid. Just as kids have to learn that they can lie, be lied about, can get beat up, can beat up other kids - it's part of growing up.

Life isn't fair. Unjust detention happens. But is that the same as an undeserved beating by an authority figure? Using the same logic, life isn't fair, so why make a big deal about wrongful imprisonment or innocent people getting the death penalty? Because at some point, we have to do our best to be fair, and make sure that the ramifications of mistakes aren't too great.

Quote

Again, common sense. Spanking a 4 year old because he played on a highway might just save his life. Breaking the pelvis of a 6 year old is abuse. Not hard for reasonable people to differentiate the two.

I agree to a degree, but question giving the authority for inflicting physical punishment to a non-family member when the situation isn't urgent. We aren't talking about safety, or a situation where a child needs immediate physical pain to reinforce a message with authority during their early development. By the time a kid gets to elementary school, that level of development has mostly been passed, and by junior high, completely passed. A 16-year old like the one in question doesn't need a spanking from a teacher to have a lesson sink in. They have the cognitive development to know what they did to deserve a grounding, or even a whuppin' given later, at home, by the parents.

Quote

And parents should teach, and teachers should discipline their classrooms.

I agree. Teaching is an integral part of parenting. Discipline is a part of teaching. But teachers and parents are far from interchangeable. Most teachers have a student for 10 months. Parents are ultimately responsible for their children. The parents are the ones in charge in instilling a value system in their kids. Teachers can't, because they have too many kids, and only have them for a little while, in sequence. The lasting influence on children is the parents. The decision of what is worthy of physical punishment is enough of a grey area that "common sense" of the teacher isn't sufficient. They can discipline in lots of ways, but that one should be left to the parents.

[Nightingale 0]

you have to look at the intent...

did the child actually intend harm? or did she just throw the pencil in anger because it was in her hand and the teacher was making an issue out of it? was it an "I'm throwing this because I want to hurt you!" or a "you want me to leave the pencil? HERE! Keep the damn thing!" type of throw?

my bet was its the latter.

[misskriss 0]

Quote

I'm against pressing charges. Even though she is 16, she's still a kid full of emotions, hormones, problems and probably because of her situation is full of anger at the world. I'm sure it's not entirely her fault that she is now in a group home and she probably resents the hell out of it. I wonder when is the last time she had an adult in her life that she could actually trust and who believed in her. I'm not saying YOU have the be that person, I'm just saying give her another change. Sit her down and tell her that her behavior is not acceptable in your classroom, and that this is her warning. If she does anything like that again, let her know the severity of the situation and that you will press charges and explain how much worse that will be than the situation she is already in. Good luck Lisa with whatever you decide to do.

What skymama said....

[Keith 0]

Quote

Basically I just wanted to see if you guys agree with me about not pressing charges.

You sound like a wise woman. Pressing charges won't bring the desired result, so I agree, don't. It sounds to me she figures she's going to get bounced out sooner or later so it might as well be sooner and on her terms; thus giving herself the illusion of control.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Luv2Fall 0]

It's an expression.......an old one.

[jfields 0]

Quote

That's true...they can't. But paddling a kid's ass for misbehaving after repeated warnings is miles away from child abuse, in my book. And if the parents won't do it, and the teachers can't do it, then America's setting itself up for a hard fall in the future.....and I don't think anyone could disagree that the fall has already started.

If the parents won't instill proper values and discipline their children as needed, it makes no difference what the teachers do. In that case, we are headed toward that fall anyway. Parents must to a better job than they have been. Teachers can't be responsible for picking up the slack for a nation's poor parenting.

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

you have to look at the intent...

did the child actually intend harm? or did she just throw the pencil in anger because it was in her hand and the teacher was making an issue out of it? was it an "I'm throwing this because I want to hurt you!" or a "you want me to leave the pencil? HERE! Keep the damn thing!" type of throw?

my bet was its the latter.

So the guy with the gun has ahold of the gun and the cop says hand it over..the guy "meant" to hand it over but it discharged anyway....oops.
I don't see any difference here. So no, it wasn't a gun, but it could have done damage nonetheless.

She NEEDS to understand that you have to follow the rules. They are set there for the safety and well being of everyone.

What I hear from alot of theses posts are: When she is legally an adult, she can make her own decisions, and hurt as many people as she likes, but until then lets not discipline her.

I shudder to think how many kids theses days are going to end up like this, when it could have been stopped earlier on when an impression was more easily made.

Now don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that she should be beaten (Although Caning did alot for that kid in singapore) There are other ways of dealing out punishment while instilling pride of accomplishment. If that fails, there is always the Cool Hand Luke book of discipline. . ."What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

Eventually she would get the picture.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[QuickDraw 0]

You have to set an example to the rest of the class,
bust her ass, and carry on doing what your supposed to do.....teach.

Good luck.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[steve1 5]

Mouth,
Remember in college when your professor's told you that If you don't love every minute you are in the classroom it's time to quit. What in the hell do they know? I wonder if they have ever been there.....

I'm sure you will make the right decision on this one. I've worked on an Indian Reservation school for 20 years now. About 16 years in the classroom and I still teach classes as part of my counseling curriculum in the middle school. I've had lot's of great days on the job but, I've also been cussed at, had things thrown at me, called every name in the book, and I agree sometimes I really hated teaching. It would be easy if you didn't have to deal with discipline problems, crazy parents, and nit-wit administrators.

Hang in there. I agree this student needs a healthy consequence for what she has done. It's your job to maintain order in the classroom or noone can learn. Most tough kids don't respect you unless you can keep control. And I'm sure you already know this.

It's no doubt this student needs some serious counseling, probably more than a school counselor is capable of giving. What she probably needs more than anything else though, is one person in her life who gives a rip about her. I doubt if this girl has ever experienced much love and acceptance in her life from a parent, or she probably wouldn't be acting this way. If she returns to the same dysfunctional home each night, counseling isn't going to be enough to make much difference. I wish there was a easy fix for kids like this. Often times they are scarred for life and it is extremely difficult to change the dead end course they are on. There's lot's of kids that I feel like taking home each night because I know the place they call home is truly hell on earth. I guess that is what keeps many educators going though is knowing you might be the most stable adult in their life. So don't give up the fight. The world needs more good teachers like you.....Steve1

[happythoughts 0]

One of the things to learn from school is acceptable social behavior. She is defining those boundaries. She is also teaching the others in the class.

She is also keeping them from learning, so she is ruining the chances for the others. Not only messing up her own life, but that of others.

[Lioness 0]

I completely agree with what Nightingale has said. Try to turn this into something positive instead of pointing fingers or pressing charges. There is enough negativity in this world. I was not an easy teenager at all, and the people that in the end helped me to become a better person (besides mom) was teachers that had patience with me, and talked to me, instead of AT me. It's amazing to see how a teenager will turn around if they feel you actually respect them and care.
Anyway just my 2 cents.

______________________________________
Be glad of life, because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Also, make sure she doesn't have children.

I don't think sterilization is the answer.....

There's a bunch of thoughts here, but there is a discipline action necessary and if pressing charges is the only alternative our, oh so recently enlightened civilization, has left for us, then do it. This is a 16 year old, not a 10 year old or a 5 year old.

As far as consideration of intent, I don't like that concept. People should be judged by their actions, not their thoughts. Thought policing is too hard.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants