Safe First Rig?

[rolltide 0]

I was wondering what thoughts were on buying this for my first rig (this is just the container and reserve). The rig is kind of old, and i wanted to see if there is any point in having it sent to my rigger to check it out, or if it isn't even worth that.

Talon T7 900 Jumps DOM 5/96. Raven-3 3 Jumps DOM 11/96. 17" Medium Harness $1150

[skybytch 273]

Overpriced by about $600.. Pass.

Do you know the size in square feet of a Raven 3? If not, how do you know it's the right size reserve for you? Do you know your MLW length (that would be harness size)? If not, how do you know that harness will fit you?

Do yourself and your wallet a huge favor. DO NOT BUY YOUR FIRST RIG OVER THE INTERNET WITHOUT ASSISTANCE FROM A KNOWLEDGEABLE AND EXPERIENCED SKYDIVER - and by that I don't mean asking here about every rig you find.

Is there a gear dealer in your area? Might cost a bit more than piecing something together off the classifieds, but a gear dealer is more likely to sell you something that you will be happy with in the long run. And far less likely to completely jack you like the seller of that Talon appears to be trying to do.

[davelepka 4]

Step 1 - learn to skydive. Jump the rigs the DZ provides, and use your experiences to figure out what size main/reserve you need for your first rig. This will be based on your weight, and your performance jumping the DZ gear, as determined by your instructors.

Step 2 - tell your instructors you're looking for a used rig. Ask if they can help you find one, or reccomend a rigger or gear dealer who can assist you.

Step 3 - never, ever, never, buy anything unless it has been approved by the rigger who will have to assemble and pack it. This doesn't mean they have to inspect it themselves, but they have to be in contact with a person they trust who inspected it. The reason being that an 'airworthy' rig that your local rigger won't touch is a problem for you.

[likestojump 3]

I bet it's a Talon2, in which case it's an acceptable container. The Raven3 (249 sq ft) is a good reserve too.

you have to make sure the container fits you and the canopies that are safe for your weight. Your instructors/riggers should be able to answer that based on personal interaction with you.

[rolltide 0]

thanks to those that posted so quickly. I have asked a few more questions of the seller. It is a 17 inch harness, and I need a 20. Is having it resized a good option if I can get the seller to come down on the price? It can hold a 230 main and has a 249 reserve in it already. I am 220 without gear. Assuming I can talk the price down, it it worth getting a rigger to check it out?

[hokierower 0]

I bought my first rig (being put together now ) over the internet but I had a lot of help from multiple experienced jumpers. I picked up an AAD, Container + Reserve, and a main for about $3k after misc. costs.

If you know people at the DZ that would be willing to help you, ask their opinion but keep in mind that everyone has an opinion and not to just rely on what one person says.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

thanks to those that posted so quickly. I have asked a few more questions of the seller. It is a 17 inch harness, and I need a 20. .....Assuming I can talk the price down, it it worth getting a rigger to check it out?

I would say PASS.
You can find what you need out there without having to go through all those hoops. Don't get too antsy about buying your first rig. It's a common mistake that young jumpers make....and regret.

Priorities:
1. Airworthiness
2. Canopy/Skill match
3. Harness sizing match
4. Cost

Somewhere in there is a decision on what disciplines you will take up while jumping that rig. If you plan on free-flying, make sure your rig is acceptable for free-flying.

A good rigger acting as escrow is the ONLY way to go when buying from independent/individual sources.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rolltide 0]

Ok, will flying this thing belly to earth (occasional flip)kill me assuming it is in good condition? It is a 1993 Vector II. It was updated for BOC deployment All of the measurements fit me as is. It holds the right size canopies for my size at the 30 jump(not there yet), always stand-up landing mark. Is it worth setting up escrow with a rigger or should I run as fast as I can in the other direction? I'm looking for cheap options for my first ~100 jumps. I am 225 if that makes a difference in putting stress on an old container.

[nbblood 0]

Will it kill you? Most likely not if it's in airworthy condition. But IMO, a 1993 Vector II is not worth paying the shipping for unless you want it for a museum. You'll not likely ever get anything back for it.

I realize you're looking for inexpensive options, but remember for anything you keep for only a year or two, you'll likely get your investment back for it....IF....you invest wisely in the first place. These are not wise investments and not likely to show you any return down the road.

How did you determine you needed a 20 inch MLW? I'm curious because that's quite long.

Here's an example of how to determine (roughly) what size MLW would be appropriate. (borrowed from a post from Skybytch by the way)

Quote

Here's a quick way of determining if a harness will fit you... take your height in inches, subtract your inseam in inches, then subtract 20 - the result will be close to the length of MLW that will fit you. Example - I'm 5'8" (68 inches) with a 33 inch inseam. 68 - 33 - 20 = 15; a 15" MLW fits me pretty well.

Keep in mind there are other factors such as lateral and leg strap length to consider as well. Also keep in mind, it doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be in the ball park to be safe and comfortable.

The others' suggestions are good. Get with your instructors/riggers. Have them help you find appropriate gear within your budget. It's worth waiting/saving to get gear that is more current and has potential for some sort of return when you're done with it though. These don't. I agree that the Talon is WAY overpriced. So is the Vector II if they're asking for anything for it.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

I bet it's a Talon2, in which case it's an acceptable container. The Raven3 (249 sq ft) is a good reserve too.

you have to make sure the container fits you and the canopies that are safe for your weight. Your instructors/riggers should be able to answer that based on personal interaction with you.

.....................................................................

Close!
It is a '94 Talon.
R.I. made some major updates (hip rings, Stealth pilot chute, molar freebag, etc.) in 1994. It took a couple of years to work all the bugs out of '94 pattern set.

The Talon 2 is a '94 Talon with all the bugs worked out and some minor improvements to the harness. Most people cannot tell the difference between a '94 Talon and a Talon 2.
Hint: I still jump a '94 Talon.

Rob Warner
Customer Service Manager at Rigging Innovations from 1994 to 1997.