Amazon 7 #176 October 23, 2003 You do not get it.. I am NOT defending terrorists.. I am more than willing to keep them prisoner till the cessation of hostilities. I am TRYING desparately to protect my country and our people in uniform. By mistreating prisoners we demean ourselves.. and risk having others treat our people worse in future wars. IF we claim a moral high ground then don't be a hypocrite and demand that others treat our people BETTER than what we are treating others. Its a VERY long two way street. Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zlew 0 #177 October 23, 2003 <> Yea, you left them here, but I can't fit into them...Have anything smaller? Z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #178 October 23, 2003 You can't pretend to make your point accross if you start blurting insults as you have already, calling people who don't agree with you facists, and drunks, because they don't agree, as much as you say I don't get it, you have at least see your true point of view to this matter, but have hesitation and very prompt urge to call names if one tells you that I want to excise the right to protect myself. It sucks both ways. But one thing as far as I can see, is that you still enjoy all the freedoms, you still can go and vote, go just about every place on earth, wihtout anyone stopping you, even write e-mails with the words Ossama, bomb those pricks, terrorisms etc, without having the FBI on your back, now, if you attempt to do something like mr. Blade runner on the airliners, and box cutters, then don't complain the FBI will be all over your ass charging you with such things."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #179 October 23, 2003 QuoteIt sucks both ways. But one thing as far as I can see, is that you still enjoy all the freedoms, you still can go and vote, go just about every place on earth, wihtout anyone stopping you, even write e-mails with the words Ossama, bomb those pricks, terrorisms etc, without having the FBI on your back http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12583&c=206 Police have beaten and maced protestors in Missouri, charged on horseback into crowds of demonstrators in New York, fired on demonstrators in California, and helped FBI agents to spy on professors and students at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, the ACLU report said. Attorney General Ashcroft’s Justice Department has further asserted the right to seize protesters’ assets and deport immigrants under anti-terrorism statutes rushed through Congress after the attacks, and debated whether to revoke U.S. citizenship in some cases. Some of the most stunning abuses - such as the compilation of political profiles of peaceful demonstrators by police in New York - did not come to light until they were exposed and challenged by the ACLU. The ACLU report also makes clear that ours is not the first generation to face such challenges, with historical comparisons to government suppression of dissent from 1920 through the Vietnam era. These included the "scapegoating" of immigrant communities at the end of World War I, when labor strikes turned violent, leading to mass arrests and deportations on orders from then-Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer Yeah I know its the ACLU.. but it does not make the information any the less untrue. The reality is here my friend. Whether you choose to see it and be worried... is another story. http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14891 Only hours after the attacks, the FBI reportedly began installing its controversial Carnivore system at some Internet providers to monitor and record electronic communications, particularly seeking accounts with Arabic names. On the day of the attacks, an ABC-Washington Post poll found that 66% of Americans would willingly give up some civil liberties to combat terrorism. I don't know about you.. but " Carnivore" scares the hell out of me... The implications of what it can be used for are the stuff of George Orwells "1984". I guess we just got there 20 years later. Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #180 October 23, 2003 QuoteYea, you left them here, but I can't fit into them...Have anything smaller? Nah.. couldn't be mine I have not been to Texas in 20 years. Smaller??? I would guess you would need something smaller... judging from this...Raven Dash-M 120 ft² (1.46 lbs/ft²) I dont date little guys.... especially ones who want to wear my clothes... Must be some other tall womans panties who was giving out a mercy lay. Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #181 October 23, 2003 QuoteJust remember.. we have those standards because unlike SO MANY other places in the world.. the people of this country come from EVERYWHERE..EVERY COUNTRY we ARE the world.. We are supposed to reflect what is good in the world. Its a high standard.. and unfortunately.. we aint doin so good right now. without reading all this thread I have one thing to ask you. How the hell do you know what the thugs are saying is true? Ever been in a jail or been around jailbirds. WE use them to wash our bus fleet in the summer. NONE of the little bastards are ever guilty. They all whine about being mistreated. I'm sure on a grand scale a few are. In your haste (not just you) to believe anything negative about the GWB in gereral and the us, you forget this basic fact. They are more than likely eating better and living better then they were back home. While I'm sure things are not perfect down there. (are they any where?) You might want to look at who is saying what. But I'm sure some see them as victims but they are being held for a reason. The muslim spys caught were trying to smuggle something out. Yes? Or would they attempt something like that for intel that had no good purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #182 October 23, 2003 Their conditions are nowhere close to as execrable as US POWs's in Vietnam were. Not even on the same planet (and I know you didn't make that analogy). But even if they were incredibly good, in the US we don't imprison for a crime without charging with that crime within a set period. We don't imprison as prisoners of war without using the Geneva Convention (which we signed) as a guide. And I would hope we don't make up a new category when we don't want to follow the rules. Terrorists suck. They kill people indiscriminately. But a person only has honor if they use the rules in cases where it's inconvenient, as well as when it's convenient. It doesn't matter if they're guilty (I'm sure most of them are). They're entitled, as human beings, to the consideration we would give human beings. We do the same for criminals in this country. In my less-reasonable moments, I remember the Marielitos, and wonder if maybe we should just release them from Gitmo and leave them in Cuba . Note: that's a joke. Wendy W. Oh: and yes, go Marlins! (anyone but the Yankees )There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #183 October 23, 2003 QuoteThat is still the standard in warfare. So we spend billions in the last SEVERAL conflicts, not just iraq or afgan, using smart wepons to cut down on non military casualties. The bombs that cost so much more, that conventional bombs will do the same job.... But god forbid we hit the wrong building, or a bomb miss it's mark. Or have our bomb take out the right target and kill a kid across the street... The rest of the world says we are careless, killing civilians left and right... they hold us to a standard that NO OTHER COUNTRY can even come close to. I think it is a little naive to think it is only the rest of the world who thinks that way. Outside of the humane aspects of smart bombs, it is pretty clear that it is easier to gain and keep sujpport of the war, in the US itself, when as little collateral damage as possible occurs. If in the process of warfare the US kills many innocent bystanders for whatever reason, homeland support will decrease pretty quickly. It would be naive to think that developement and use of smart weapons is not done with partly that in mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #184 October 23, 2003 If you are recklesly making a demonstration, then that is your choice to, don't tell me the pacifist are kind people when they do demonstrations. They are annoying when they take over a very public place where people are trying to get out of work get on a train to get their sons or daughters after a hard days work. It is safe when they have the police around to let them know what is off limits, and crowds passionate in what they believe they get intend on making as much damage as they can. Tkae what happened in Seattle a few years back, or the righteous anti abortion people, and so.... I don't protest, I just want my chance to go after these towel heads."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #185 October 23, 2003 QuoteYou can't pretend to make your point accross if you start blurting insults as you have already, calling people who don't agree with you facists, and drunks, Kind of like when you call me unamerican and a druggie. What a freakin' hypocrite. Get off the sauce, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
favaks 0 #186 October 23, 2003 We never declare war on Vietnam. Captured enemies were not bound by the Geneva convention. favaks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #187 October 23, 2003 UNITED NATIONS—In an address before the U.N. General Assembly Monday, President Bush called upon the international community to support his "U.S. Does Whatever It Wants" plan, which would permit the U.S. to take any action it wishes anywhere in the world at any time. Do you think that this article might have a small spin to it? I don't think that the President named his plan as such. Opinions are not news. You have pointed that out many times Billvon.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #188 October 23, 2003 He also pointed out that was from The Onion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #189 October 23, 2003 >don't tell me the pacifist are kind people when they do > demonstrations. How many have you been to? I've been to several. They are just normal people - teachers, engineers, ex-military, lawyers. They're not kind or unkind, any more than any other group of people is. >They are annoying when they take over a very public place where > people are trying to get out of work get on a train to get their sons > or daughters after a hard days work. That's the best you can do? They're annoying? Rush Limbaugh is often annoying, but I don't complain about him taking up space on the radio dial. >It is safe when they have the police around to let them know what is > off limits, and crowds passionate in what they believe they get > intend on making as much damage as they can. I am sure you can point to an example of a violent mob somewhere, but every protest I've ever been to did no more than wave signs around. They even waited for green lights. >I don't protest, I just want my chance to go after these towel heads. Then by all means grab a sheet! You and your fellow arab-haters will show those towelheads they're not welcome in the pure-blooded US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #190 October 23, 2003 >Do you think that this article might have a small spin to it? Wow. We are living in a day and age where our government is getting so extreme that an article written as a joke, from a website that specializes in jokes, is perceived as a news article with some spin to it. I suppose it's understandable. When we hear from two sources within the same week that people should mount a holy war against satan, and one is Osama Bin Laden and the other is one of our own generals - I suppose it's hard to find anything further to make fun of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #191 October 23, 2003 Gheeze, it's getting harder and harder to have a dry sense of humor here. I did see it was an Onion skin. I did forget to add an emoticon where I should heve. Please forgive me your political Highness. oops typo...I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #192 October 23, 2003 QuoteGheeze, it's getting harder and harder to have a dry sense of humor here Nice tryRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shedao 0 #193 October 23, 2003 QuoteYou think the russians make sure the Chechen's get food that is pleasing to their Muslim faith? I doubt that Cehchnya is a good example to site. The Russians have violated many international laws with their willingness to torture. Also their abuse of supposed "elections". And they still have not "won" the war as they have announced time and time again. Is this what you want? The fact is you cannot treat other people inhumanely and expect no repercussions. When you torture them you simply give them fodder for their propoganda cannon. It's not about what "they" do. It's about our actions and how we handle ourselves in the world. If others want to lower themselves to the level of beasts then so be it. But some of us would rather sleep at night knowing that we are treating people fairly. Hell, even war criminals that commit genocide get the right to a trial to face his accusers and argue his/her side. If they are guilty then why don't we simply give them a fair trial and then sentence them? And a better question - how does anyone know a suspect is guilty without a trial? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #194 October 23, 2003 >Gheeze, it's getting harder and harder to have a dry sense of humor here. Well, in that case, I was kidding too! But seriously, I've posted maybe five Onion articles here. Two were taken seriously. I mean, how much more fun can you make of California's governorship over the last two years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #195 October 23, 2003 Quote>Gheeze, it's getting harder and harder to have a dry sense of humor here. Well, in that case, I was kidding too! But seriously, I've posted maybe five Onion articles here. Two were taken seriously. I mean, how much more fun can you make of California's governorship over the last two years? well. . . Think about it. . . You said C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A . . .much more fun to be had.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #196 October 23, 2003 >well. . . Think about it. . . You said C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A . . .much more fun to be had. Oh, didn't you get the memo? It's spelled Caleefornya now. You should have got the memo. I'll have someone send you one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #197 October 23, 2003 QuoteYou can't pretend to make your point accross if you start blurting insults as you have already, calling people who don't agree with you facists, and drunks, because they don't agree, as much as you say I don't get it, you have at least see your true point of view to this matter, but have hesitation and very prompt urge to call names if one tells you that I want to excise the right to protect myself. . Why is that any worse than calling someone a "bleeding heart liberal"? The name-calling started there.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScubaSteve 0 #198 October 23, 2003 http://www.stickdeath.com/qcamfin.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #199 October 23, 2003 QuoteQuoteYou can't pretend to make your point accross if you start blurting insults as you have already, calling people who don't agree with you facists, and drunks, because they don't agree, as much as you say I don't get it, you have at least see your true point of view to this matter, but have hesitation and very prompt urge to call names if one tells you that I want to excise the right to protect myself. . Why is that any worse than calling someone a "bleeding heart liberal"? The name-calling started there. Well i have a joke about that... Ya see, there was this guy in a car accident. He was pronounced brain dead by the doctors, but his heart was beating fine even though it had a small hole in it.. So, when the doctor gave the information to the mother, she looked at the Father and said what do we do? Dad looked at mom and said, I don't know, honey, we've never had a liberal in the family before. Bu da Bum BumpI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #200 October 23, 2003 Not hypocrite, you love dope, and so passionate about it, you defend a drug user, at your pace nachop and edit words when you most feel like. You cry about someone slandering you, but then you profess to everyone here, you like dope, you smoke dope and are pro dope....so let me guess..... Edited to add: Per your own convictions and postings I have not once stated here or anywhere else that I like to be drunk as a form of recreation, as you do profess with dope, so no, I am not being hypocryte. I say what I mean and mean what I say, don't go over posting crap saying hey, what do you think abou this? and then cry like a baby when someone reminds you what your character is.... "According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
