parafredo 0 #1 May 15, 2011 This is a part of a UPT notice that make me this question. Uninsured United Parachute Technologies, LLC (UPT) does not endorse or approve the use of any canopy in the Sigma Tandem System other than Vector Tandem Canopies (VTC and VTCR), the EZ range of canopies and the Sigma range of canopies, manufactured by Performance Designs, Inc. for UPT. As a FAA rigger, do I have to sign off this system if the owner is using unapproved main canopy, or simply refuse to do it, since that all the system includes the main as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #2 May 15, 2011 If it were the reserve, I would refuse it. Main? Tough call... ETA: QuoteAs a FAA rigger, do I have to sign off this system if the owner is using unapproved main canopy, or simply refuse to do it, since that all the system includes the main as well. You NEVER have to."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parafredo 0 #3 May 15, 2011 I know it is my own choice to decide to do it or not, my concern is that when you know that your customer is using a different main and UPT is saying this is a part of a complete system and does NOT approve anything else, term APPROVED should be in consideration, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #4 May 16, 2011 Mind you they don't say they DISAPPROVE either, just that they don't APPROVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #5 May 16, 2011 I'm not a rigger but on my last repack my main never left the dbag...Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 May 16, 2011 Let me ask you a question. Is there a list anywhere that says which main canopies can and cannot be used in a specific Harness container other than UPTs statement? Why do you think Bill Booth changed the name of the company specifically to Uninsured? Basically, that statement is one more step that UPT as taken to try and keep lawyers from suing the company and to reduce their overall liability. Remember, even having to go to court to prove your innocence takes time and money away from a company. By having a company with the word uninsured in the name, most lawyers will look for greener grounds. By only endorsing the use of products they produce or have approved for use, they further limit the possibility of having the company dragged into court for a protracted period because a lawyer decided to name everyone he could think of when a family/skydiver decides to sue. EDIT: another question. Which takes precedence when H/C manufacturers and canopy manufacturer's recommendations contradict one another? Hint, AC-105-2c, #11. This is where I think it could potentially get sticky for a rigger who packed a different canopy in a UPT tandem system if dragged into court and the lawyer brought out the FARs and presented them to a jury of wuffos."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #7 May 16, 2011 The simple answer is to pack the PD360 reserve (according to manufacturer's instructions) and ignore the main. Try telling the owner to leave the main at the airport, when he brings his reserve for repack. That method gives you plausible deniability ... like Richard Nixon. Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #8 May 16, 2011 As was pointed out by Onlyski, you don't have to sign off on anything. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. If you sign off on a rig that has an unapproved canopy (main or reserve) you are not operating in "accordance with the manufacturer's instructions." If you pack a reserve in a rig that has no main attached, then whatever main the owner attaches is his business. BUT... If something goes wrong, and the main isn't approved, and your signature is on the card... Then what? Personally, I wouldn't."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 2 #9 May 16, 2011 Quote Why do you think Bill Booth changed the name of the company specifically to Uninsured? I'd like to point out that the Relative Workshop was named the Uninsured Relative Workshop. I think the name change was related to consolidation of organizations rather than to emphasize insurance status. OP: Ask clients to deliver ALL tandem rigs without mains. This SOP will help you prove deniability. I don't know how you're going to handle inspecting those main risers, but that's between you and the clients! ETA: Sorry about disrupting the thread. In response to PMs, I'm posting this image of the Uninsured Relative Workshop, Inc.'s FL corporate info. The name was changed in 1989, apparently in response to RW being unable to introduce their insurance status in court proceedings."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 May 16, 2011 QuoteI don't know how you're going to handle inspecting those main risers, but that's between you and the clients Simple, you don't. Make a notation on the repack card 'I & R minus main risers, d-bag, bridle, drouge'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
