greybeard 0 #1 November 11, 2003 My reflections on this past weekend, reminded me how much I have to learn and how much I have to teach and share. Have you noticed that when an experienced jumper comes up to you and offers advise, under the nicest constructive terms, it still feels like a lecture. Conversely, whenever anybody approaches you with a sincere question regarding performance, or equipment, or dz policy, or whatever,.... the guard drops and friendships are formed around trust and respect. Think! What is the initial premise here. If you identify with this thinking, do yourself and me a great favor....initiate contacts. Ask questions! The accumulated wealth of knowledge is amazing. I've got so much to learn, it's kinda scary. But, I've got a little bit to share and teach also. My favorite response to a newbie question, after telling him/her all I know, is, you better not only rely on my opinion, go ask so and so and so and so. They taught me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 November 11, 2003 Very wise words. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #3 November 11, 2003 I have found that just about anyone I ask questions of at the DZ is more than willing to answer my questions. Time permitting, of course. Good thing, because I can't even begin to fathom all I have to learn yet in this sport. It's good that people are willing to share the knowledge they have acquired throughout their experiences to us newbie jumpers. One thing I have learned is to listen, listen, listen. I've also learned that people aren't necessarily going to come to me and give me advice or suggestions. For example, landing is the one thing I cannot seem to get a handle on. One stand-up so far. Seriously, it leaves me frustrated. I mean, I'm a smart person, why can't I land on my feet? Why am I not aware of my own actions enough to recognize when I don't flare all the way? Okay, enough of that...it's just meant to be an example. The point is that I have had to be very active in seeking my own answers. So, my advice to other newbies would be to find someone you trust to mentor you and advise you in the beginning. If you aren't sure...ask. If you don't get an answer....keep asking. And be assertive in your own training. I don't know how it is everywhere, but if I wasn't assertive regarding my post-AFF, pre-A training/jump requirements I wouldn't be any closer to getting my license. And as far as the landings go...it's a work in progress with advice coming not from instructors, but from some really friendly people around the DZ who care enough to help. Being passive and quiet will not get your questions answered and will not help you progress in skydiving. And, if you are an experienced skydiver willing to share info...please initiate a conversation with a newbie. It helps us early jumpers feel comfortable coming to you for advice! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #4 November 11, 2003 QuoteAsk questions! What if you ask questions. Serious questions. Think things through, and ask more questions...and then get told that, effectively, you should shut your mouth, you don't have enough jump numbers to ask questions, that you are "dense" if you continue to ask questions? What do you do then? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #5 November 11, 2003 What if you ask questions. Serious questions. Think things through, and ask more questions...and then get told that, effectively, you should shut your mouth, you don't have enough jump numbers to ask questions, that you are "dense" if you continue to ask questions? What do you do then? Ciels- Michele Quote Say F**k you and go free flying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripper0289 0 #6 November 11, 2003 In my many long weeks of skydiving I have found out that skydivers have a few things in common with amatuer astronomers. First is that they both love to talk about what they do, share their experience and knowledge, answer questions, stuff like that, and every time I have a question, there's always someone at the drop zone who knows the answer and is willing to help. We've all been that nervous person getting ready to make their first jump, and I only hope that when I'm one of the experienced jumpers and some newbie comes up and asks me a question that I'll be as nice and as helpful as all of the people at my DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtval 0 #7 November 11, 2003 ask, listen and learn...soon to follow: shake, rattle and roll! seriously. Ive been on dz for a few days now and this place has definitely formed my opinion of skydiving and skydivers. vack when it was just a handful of us and there was ONE page etc. the PPL were still incredibly cool and knowledgeable(even though most of us at that time were new to the sport) I have no prob with one who is more experienced then I handing me some advice...if they dont act like a god whilst doing it LOL. Ive been on both sides of the coin (and while I claim to be an asshole here, Its not all true) I have taken some GREAT advice and giving some "hopefully" equally great adice to someone who hadn't been as expeienced.... ONE THING WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE...just b/c I may outnumber someone doesnt Mean that I am more experienced! leave you ego in the cesspool where it belongs!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #8 November 11, 2003 HEY CHOOOK i WOULD ASK THEM ONE MORE QUESTION. wHY ARTE YOU A f%^$K hEAD, THEN FIND A NEW PERSON TO QUESTION ooops sorry for tha caps lockYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #9 November 11, 2003 Can't comprehend your post...seriously. Don't know if it's the alcohol or just the post, but QUE?Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #10 November 11, 2003 Michele, I hope no one has ever done this to you. I would hope that if you had questions to ask that no one would respond by calling you "dense". Or Me. I mean, we are jumping out of airplanes into air and hurtling ourselves at significant speeds towards the large rock we call Earth. Questions before we go are the key to keeping us alive and unbroken. I, personally, think it is the responsibility of advanced jumpers to keep the youngest jumpers well informed and educated. The ony way this sport will advance and grow is through the continued interest of the incoming jumpers. When I worked as a paramedic, I felt a responsibility to educate incoming medics on procedure and technique. This made them better, more skilled, comprehensive medics. If skydivers don't take the same interest and place the same effort in the fledgling jumpers, who will? Not that I particularly like Hillary Clinton, but when she said it takes a village to raise a child, I had to agree. People are community based and oriented and everyone needs to take some responsibility in teaching the "babes" how to walk before they fly. If someone were to be really crappy to me when I asked questions about skydiving, my first inclination would be to stop asking questions. I hope that wouldn't occur and that the new jumpers would feel safe learning at the DZ from the skygods. An unasked question or unlearned lesson can lead to death, can't it? Basically, I'd like to appeal to all the advanced jumpers at all the dropzones to take a newbie jumper under your wing and mentor them as they advance in the field. Don't forget the newbies...we're learning and easily influenced by all the exciting stuff we see (ie...swooping, downsizing). Keep our minds on solid ground so our bodies won't have to be...thanks. MissyTake me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #11 November 11, 2003 Quote HEY CHOOOK i WOULD ASK THEM ONE MORE QUESTION. wHY ARTE YOU A f%^$K hEAD, THEN FIND A NEW PERSON TO QUESTION Yes, well, that is tempting, but it would only lead to additional issues, wouldn't it? So what would be a good response? Simply back away from the issue, and then go find someone who can explain things to you? Or simply bow to their reputation and stop asking questions and stop thinking critically? Just really curious how others handle this, if it happens to them... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyyhi 0 #12 November 11, 2003 Missy, you are so right. I have hung out and asked lots of questions at the DZ. Everyone has been very helpful and full of answers. If it wasn't for their friendliness, I probably would not be making my first jump. Darcy________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #13 November 11, 2003 IMO it depends on what the question is. Alot of the time it involves something that could be dangerous if misconstrued. For example: a new student (3 jumps I think)came up to me and asked me the differance between a hook turn and a swoop. I considered my answer carefully and said something along the lines that I was not his instructor and that would be a question that woulb be better posed to him. Yes, I know the differance, but i didn't know what he had been told already, and I didn't know if the discussion had been brought up with his instructor before - so I wanted to stay clear. I find myself with that sort of answer alot. If they are students, I urge them to talk to thier coach or instructor, if they insist, I give them as close to a text book answer as I can and then say to verify that with thier instructor.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #14 November 11, 2003 QuoteSo what would be a good response? Simply back away from the issue, and then go find someone who can explain things to you? Or simply bow to their reputation and stop asking questions and stop thinking critically? Back away from the issue and the person. Find someone else that you trust and talk and listen to them. But never, never, stop asking.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #15 November 11, 2003 Thanks Mark for your post. Sometimes when we ask a question and we don't understand the answer, it simply needs to be answered in a different wayEducation is power. As my friend Missy Nelson would say...."Never stop learning....learning never stops." That is the most beautiful thing about this sport. We are all works in progress. xoxo BB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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ripper0289 0 #6 November 11, 2003 In my many long weeks of skydiving I have found out that skydivers have a few things in common with amatuer astronomers. First is that they both love to talk about what they do, share their experience and knowledge, answer questions, stuff like that, and every time I have a question, there's always someone at the drop zone who knows the answer and is willing to help. We've all been that nervous person getting ready to make their first jump, and I only hope that when I'm one of the experienced jumpers and some newbie comes up and asks me a question that I'll be as nice and as helpful as all of the people at my DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #7 November 11, 2003 ask, listen and learn...soon to follow: shake, rattle and roll! seriously. Ive been on dz for a few days now and this place has definitely formed my opinion of skydiving and skydivers. vack when it was just a handful of us and there was ONE page etc. the PPL were still incredibly cool and knowledgeable(even though most of us at that time were new to the sport) I have no prob with one who is more experienced then I handing me some advice...if they dont act like a god whilst doing it LOL. Ive been on both sides of the coin (and while I claim to be an asshole here, Its not all true) I have taken some GREAT advice and giving some "hopefully" equally great adice to someone who hadn't been as expeienced.... ONE THING WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE...just b/c I may outnumber someone doesnt Mean that I am more experienced! leave you ego in the cesspool where it belongs!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #8 November 11, 2003 HEY CHOOOK i WOULD ASK THEM ONE MORE QUESTION. wHY ARTE YOU A f%^$K hEAD, THEN FIND A NEW PERSON TO QUESTION ooops sorry for tha caps lockYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #9 November 11, 2003 Can't comprehend your post...seriously. Don't know if it's the alcohol or just the post, but QUE?Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #10 November 11, 2003 Michele, I hope no one has ever done this to you. I would hope that if you had questions to ask that no one would respond by calling you "dense". Or Me. I mean, we are jumping out of airplanes into air and hurtling ourselves at significant speeds towards the large rock we call Earth. Questions before we go are the key to keeping us alive and unbroken. I, personally, think it is the responsibility of advanced jumpers to keep the youngest jumpers well informed and educated. The ony way this sport will advance and grow is through the continued interest of the incoming jumpers. When I worked as a paramedic, I felt a responsibility to educate incoming medics on procedure and technique. This made them better, more skilled, comprehensive medics. If skydivers don't take the same interest and place the same effort in the fledgling jumpers, who will? Not that I particularly like Hillary Clinton, but when she said it takes a village to raise a child, I had to agree. People are community based and oriented and everyone needs to take some responsibility in teaching the "babes" how to walk before they fly. If someone were to be really crappy to me when I asked questions about skydiving, my first inclination would be to stop asking questions. I hope that wouldn't occur and that the new jumpers would feel safe learning at the DZ from the skygods. An unasked question or unlearned lesson can lead to death, can't it? Basically, I'd like to appeal to all the advanced jumpers at all the dropzones to take a newbie jumper under your wing and mentor them as they advance in the field. Don't forget the newbies...we're learning and easily influenced by all the exciting stuff we see (ie...swooping, downsizing). Keep our minds on solid ground so our bodies won't have to be...thanks. MissyTake me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #11 November 11, 2003 Quote HEY CHOOOK i WOULD ASK THEM ONE MORE QUESTION. wHY ARTE YOU A f%^$K hEAD, THEN FIND A NEW PERSON TO QUESTION Yes, well, that is tempting, but it would only lead to additional issues, wouldn't it? So what would be a good response? Simply back away from the issue, and then go find someone who can explain things to you? Or simply bow to their reputation and stop asking questions and stop thinking critically? Just really curious how others handle this, if it happens to them... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #12 November 11, 2003 Missy, you are so right. I have hung out and asked lots of questions at the DZ. Everyone has been very helpful and full of answers. If it wasn't for their friendliness, I probably would not be making my first jump. Darcy________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #13 November 11, 2003 IMO it depends on what the question is. Alot of the time it involves something that could be dangerous if misconstrued. For example: a new student (3 jumps I think)came up to me and asked me the differance between a hook turn and a swoop. I considered my answer carefully and said something along the lines that I was not his instructor and that would be a question that woulb be better posed to him. Yes, I know the differance, but i didn't know what he had been told already, and I didn't know if the discussion had been brought up with his instructor before - so I wanted to stay clear. I find myself with that sort of answer alot. If they are students, I urge them to talk to thier coach or instructor, if they insist, I give them as close to a text book answer as I can and then say to verify that with thier instructor.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #14 November 11, 2003 QuoteSo what would be a good response? Simply back away from the issue, and then go find someone who can explain things to you? Or simply bow to their reputation and stop asking questions and stop thinking critically? Back away from the issue and the person. Find someone else that you trust and talk and listen to them. But never, never, stop asking.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #15 November 11, 2003 Thanks Mark for your post. Sometimes when we ask a question and we don't understand the answer, it simply needs to be answered in a different wayEducation is power. As my friend Missy Nelson would say...."Never stop learning....learning never stops." That is the most beautiful thing about this sport. We are all works in progress. xoxo BB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
