FeMike 0 #1 September 24, 2003 I just watched the movie Patriot Games for the 10th time and I don't get it. What is the beef with the Irish and the Brits? It seems so insane, they both talk the same, like warm beer and ....I just dont get it.....I can see why the people in the Mideast hate us...but not this....what up? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #2 September 24, 2003 QuoteI can see why the people in the Mideast hate us...but not this....what up? Actually it's very much the same. An acient hatred based mostly on religion and somewhat on financial interests. The Brits only keep Northern Ireland because of the port. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeMike 0 #3 September 24, 2003 I firmly believe 9-11 and the resulting agression is a religious war. It is NOT over oil but stupid ass ancient religions. Why can't we all just get along? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 September 24, 2003 QuoteWhy can't we all just get along? Because human nature is conflict. Only those that have experienced it do not want to ever see it again. Those that have not....strive for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #5 September 24, 2003 See ...now if you'd all become atheists in the first place we wouldnt have to worry about all the religion war crap!!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #6 September 24, 2003 Quotenow if you'd all become atheists in the first place we wouldnt have to worry about all the religion war crap!!! Actually....I think people would just find another excuse. "Hey look...he's not like us....beat his ass..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck278 0 #7 September 24, 2003 Quote*** Actually....I think people would just find another excuse. "Hey look...he's not like us....beat his ass..." They already do that......it's called high school Steve Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeMike 0 #8 September 24, 2003 QuoteSee ...now if you'd all become atheists in the first place we wouldnt have to worry about all the religion war crap!!! But then none of us would get to heaven. I figure theres a 50/50 chance of a Trinity or 70 virgins and endless wine.......I see why people turn to Islam.....Heeven is a big party! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #9 September 24, 2003 QuoteThey already do that......it's called high school No Lie!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #10 September 24, 2003 QuoteBut then none of us would get to heaven. I figure theres a 50/50 chance of a Trinity or 70 virgins and endless wine.......I see why people turn to Islam.....Heeven is a big party if thats true can I stow away in your lugage?? Its amazing how things went from brits and Irish to senoirs vs sophmores!!! but hey........GOOD TIMES!!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #11 September 24, 2003 I used to think I was religious. Then I realised that there are SO MANY religions and a lot of them say that if you don't believe in them, you'll go to hell. So how am I supposed to know which is the "right religion"? My Answer: Don't limit yourself to a specific religion, just believe in the constants; be kind to others. To me, that's religion in a nutshell. I don't know if there's a heaven or hell, I don't know if I will meet "God" or Alah, or Budda or whomever and I recognize that if there is a heaven, someone made a sacrifice for it, and I am very gratefull if that is the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #12 September 24, 2003 Don't get your history from a movie. Look up some history on Ireland and you will see where the dispute between the two nations come from._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #13 September 24, 2003 QuoteI used to think I was religious. Then I realised that there are SO MANY religions and a lot of them say that if you don't believe in them, you'll go to hell. So how am I supposed to know which is the "right religion"? Quote Well, if you listen to OBL or GWB their's is the correct path/god/higer power. Hmmm...how can they both be right? Oh! I know, lets kill a whole bunch of innocent people who don't believe and let the real god sort it out._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casch 0 #14 September 24, 2003 Which is why my "religion" is basically to be kind to others. Period. All this killing is ridiculous Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #15 September 24, 2003 QuoteWhich is why my "religion" is basically to be kind to others. Period. All this killing is ridiculous I think that Kevin Smith had it right in Dogma, go back and watch it and the line they draw between faith and beliefs._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casch 0 #16 September 24, 2003 Exactly! That's where I'm comin' from...I love that movie LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FeMike 0 #17 September 24, 2003 What if everyone adoped the 10 commandments, and them only, as the worlds religion? It's simple and if everyone did itm the world would be much nicer...Mabye we could exclude #7... 1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. 4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #18 September 24, 2003 I think my tattoo speaks for itself. There's my thoughts on religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casch 0 #19 September 24, 2003 You would have to exclude #1 because people could easily fight with eachother because they are not worshiping the same gods, I would have to revoke #2 because I say goddamnit all the time, I'm not sure what #3 means, sorta sounds like #1, #4 is bad for me 'cause well...my day's can rarely be considered "holy". The rest is gold! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #20 September 24, 2003 I personally like these rules better!!! 1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked. 2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them. 3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there. 4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy. 5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. 6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved. 7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained. 8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. 9. Do not harm little children. 10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. 11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #21 September 24, 2003 For an essay on how it all got started, read this It's a bit lenghty but reasonably open. Hatred is a mind meme so it's not too hard to understand how this could have enough momentum to keep going even today. To sum it up: protestants were imported that were loyal to the crown, catholics didn't get their share of power and got upset. The Irish lords of the time had great possessions in England too and were biased big time. Some people got sick of this. Didn't want to follow the good Kings laws due to being exploited, so they followed Gaelic law instead. In comes Oliver Cromwell (English) with a garrison. 'To hell or Connaught' he says and goes all toughy tough. Then a while later there was open conflict. Fast forward and ya have car bombs and terrorists (or freedom fighters, depending on which side yer on) who're raising money in the US. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kiltboy 0 #22 September 24, 2003 Damn clicky link doesn't work. The troubles in Ireland have a long ass history as mentioned. My take on it now is that it has basically festered into major tribalism that is promoted by the bigotted racist bastards on both sides who, at the end of the day, are criminals hiding under a mask of political motiviation. Most of the intimidation/ punishment beatings are a way of controlling criminal activity to support the fundraising for blowing shit up. Lots of improvised devices (plus some Semtex depending upon which side you're on) and to support a romantic idea that is a bit removed from reality. Certainly one Loyalist organisation was devastated when their political representation was not voted in to the N.Ireland assembly (seems the people they were defending really didn't appreciate their efforts). I think the troubles have been mentioned here a few times and the debate can get heated but stay away from the movies if you want to get a better understanding of it. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #23 September 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteI can see why the people in the Mideast hate us...but not this....what up? Actually it's very much the same. An acient hatred based mostly on religion and somewhat on financial interests. The Brits only keep Northern Ireland because of the port. The origin of the dispute and continuation of it doesn't really have to do with religion. True, the 2 sides are for the most part, 2 different religions. But the real reason was the conquering and occupation of Ireland by England. Than England seizing all of the land and giving it away to loyal Scotsman, who eagerly agreed to go over since England had previously seized all the Scottish lands and given them to English nobles. It's mostly a matter of coincidence that they happened to be protestants vs. catholics. It's really loyalists vs. rebels, similar to the US revolution. We just lucked out and got rid of the Brits completely instead of having to resort to a couple hundred years of freedom fighting/terrorism (pick your descriptor based on your side of the fence). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vonSanta 0 #24 September 24, 2003 Clicky should work now, try again. On another board ya need to have the url in ""'s with a = prefixed. Not here. There's still something to be said for usenet :D Clicky works now Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kiltboy 0 #25 September 24, 2003 Hi Kev, I'll disagree to an extent with the explanation you've given. I agree that the initial rebellion did not take religion as a factor but I do think that the current troubles in Ireland have a lot to do with religious bigotry I think religion played a part due to the way religion was viewed in Britain in the 1600s and the influx of presbyterians at that time. The religion of the monarchy was given prominence during the times and nobles would convert to gain favour and show their new faith by vigorously suppressing the other religion. The British monarch and the fire and brimstone Scottish Presbyterians had an effect that is still commemortated in N.Ireland and the marching season (which I hate). Fast forward to Rev Ian Paisley and you've got a similar faith/religion based political agenda. NOTE I do not think that the political goals are because of the religion but that religious intollerance/suspicion lead to the division of the population. I attached a link (granted it's the BBC and not a great historical source but I figured soemthing was better than nothing) to maybe help make my point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/troubles/origins/origins.shtml Just my take on things, David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Casch 0 #14 September 24, 2003 Which is why my "religion" is basically to be kind to others. Period. All this killing is ridiculous Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #15 September 24, 2003 QuoteWhich is why my "religion" is basically to be kind to others. Period. All this killing is ridiculous I think that Kevin Smith had it right in Dogma, go back and watch it and the line they draw between faith and beliefs._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #16 September 24, 2003 Exactly! That's where I'm comin' from...I love that movie LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeMike 0 #17 September 24, 2003 What if everyone adoped the 10 commandments, and them only, as the worlds religion? It's simple and if everyone did itm the world would be much nicer...Mabye we could exclude #7... 1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. 4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #18 September 24, 2003 I think my tattoo speaks for itself. There's my thoughts on religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #19 September 24, 2003 You would have to exclude #1 because people could easily fight with eachother because they are not worshiping the same gods, I would have to revoke #2 because I say goddamnit all the time, I'm not sure what #3 means, sorta sounds like #1, #4 is bad for me 'cause well...my day's can rarely be considered "holy". The rest is gold! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #20 September 24, 2003 I personally like these rules better!!! 1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked. 2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them. 3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there. 4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy. 5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. 6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved. 7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained. 8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself. 9. Do not harm little children. 10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. 11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him. jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #21 September 24, 2003 For an essay on how it all got started, read this It's a bit lenghty but reasonably open. Hatred is a mind meme so it's not too hard to understand how this could have enough momentum to keep going even today. To sum it up: protestants were imported that were loyal to the crown, catholics didn't get their share of power and got upset. The Irish lords of the time had great possessions in England too and were biased big time. Some people got sick of this. Didn't want to follow the good Kings laws due to being exploited, so they followed Gaelic law instead. In comes Oliver Cromwell (English) with a garrison. 'To hell or Connaught' he says and goes all toughy tough. Then a while later there was open conflict. Fast forward and ya have car bombs and terrorists (or freedom fighters, depending on which side yer on) who're raising money in the US. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #22 September 24, 2003 Damn clicky link doesn't work. The troubles in Ireland have a long ass history as mentioned. My take on it now is that it has basically festered into major tribalism that is promoted by the bigotted racist bastards on both sides who, at the end of the day, are criminals hiding under a mask of political motiviation. Most of the intimidation/ punishment beatings are a way of controlling criminal activity to support the fundraising for blowing shit up. Lots of improvised devices (plus some Semtex depending upon which side you're on) and to support a romantic idea that is a bit removed from reality. Certainly one Loyalist organisation was devastated when their political representation was not voted in to the N.Ireland assembly (seems the people they were defending really didn't appreciate their efforts). I think the troubles have been mentioned here a few times and the debate can get heated but stay away from the movies if you want to get a better understanding of it. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 September 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteI can see why the people in the Mideast hate us...but not this....what up? Actually it's very much the same. An acient hatred based mostly on religion and somewhat on financial interests. The Brits only keep Northern Ireland because of the port. The origin of the dispute and continuation of it doesn't really have to do with religion. True, the 2 sides are for the most part, 2 different religions. But the real reason was the conquering and occupation of Ireland by England. Than England seizing all of the land and giving it away to loyal Scotsman, who eagerly agreed to go over since England had previously seized all the Scottish lands and given them to English nobles. It's mostly a matter of coincidence that they happened to be protestants vs. catholics. It's really loyalists vs. rebels, similar to the US revolution. We just lucked out and got rid of the Brits completely instead of having to resort to a couple hundred years of freedom fighting/terrorism (pick your descriptor based on your side of the fence). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #24 September 24, 2003 Clicky should work now, try again. On another board ya need to have the url in ""'s with a = prefixed. Not here. There's still something to be said for usenet :D Clicky works now Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #25 September 24, 2003 Hi Kev, I'll disagree to an extent with the explanation you've given. I agree that the initial rebellion did not take religion as a factor but I do think that the current troubles in Ireland have a lot to do with religious bigotry I think religion played a part due to the way religion was viewed in Britain in the 1600s and the influx of presbyterians at that time. The religion of the monarchy was given prominence during the times and nobles would convert to gain favour and show their new faith by vigorously suppressing the other religion. The British monarch and the fire and brimstone Scottish Presbyterians had an effect that is still commemortated in N.Ireland and the marching season (which I hate). Fast forward to Rev Ian Paisley and you've got a similar faith/religion based political agenda. NOTE I do not think that the political goals are because of the religion but that religious intollerance/suspicion lead to the division of the population. I attached a link (granted it's the BBC and not a great historical source but I figured soemthing was better than nothing) to maybe help make my point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/troubles/origins/origins.shtml Just my take on things, David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
