Cypres2 cutter broken, any rigger feedback?

[GravityGirl 0]

Recently we found our second damaged Cypres2 cutter during a repack. Both were on Mirage Containers with DOMs after the AAD cutter location change service bulletin.

Have any other riggers had this experience? I am interested to see if this is a trend.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[PhreeZone 20]

What was the damage? could you post photos so more people know what to be on the look out for?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[GravityGirl 0]

You beat me to it
Here you go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

Luckely it's been noticed during repack!

Do they also need to ban the Cypres2 now?

[Skybear 0]

Did you consult Airtec, and if yes, what was their reply?

Do the rig manufacturers have to ban the Cypres 2 now? Yes, if this can lead to a malfunction that prevents the reserve container from normal operation.

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Did you consult Airtec, and if yes, what was their reply?

Do the rig manufacturers have to ban the Cypres 2 now? Yes, if this can lead to a malfunction that prevents the reserve container from normal operation.

It would appear that in this case the AAD might not function normally if damaged, but if the reserve rip cord is pulled the reserve container should still function normally.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[GravityGirl 0]

I am writing here for rigger feedback from the field. I am not interestsed in politics. I am interested in the service and safety of my clients.

Of course I have contacted the manufacturer.

Please don't turn this into anything political. I am after feedback. It used to be I could log into dz.com and share information. Am I wrong in thinking this is still a good place to do so?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[irishrigger 32]

i have packed a few mirages with a cypes insde them.i have never seen that kind of damage.
it looks to me from the pics that the cutter was badly bend at that point.it can be very though to install an aad in a mirage,they are a real ain in the bud. i certainly have taken many min to get the cutter installed after getting in serviced.
i just had a look at a mirage container here,and where the damage is on the pics,that should be sitting just inside the elastic retainer loop for the cutter.
did you have a inspect teh reserve container? was there any damage to the flap where the cutter is placed?
so i am a bit baffled by the damage,my best guess would be it got damaged during the installation.

[darkwing 5]

If the wires were intact wouldn't we expect it to still function normally? If they were broken wouldn't we expect it to fail self-test?

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[HSPScott 0]

Quote

It would appear that in this case the AAD would not function normally, but if the reserve rip cord is pulled the reserve container should still function normally.

Matt

Same could be said with all AAD in that rig.

[theonlyski 8]

Its been several months since I packed a Mirage container, I don't remember the angle of the cutter being all that bad in relation to the wire direction, is there any way you can think of that the rig could've been abused and caused a stress point?

IIRC the cutter is on the bottom (number 3 flap I believe) so I could see how its possible, but it would have to take some serious rough housing with that rig to make it happen.

How much slack was in the cutter wire coming from the AAD pocket?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[GravityGirl 0]

Were they Cypres or Cypres2 that you have packed? The material of the housing has changed. No damage to the flaps.

We have a very high volume of Mirage on this dropzone, so we re-pack several a week. This could sway statistics, but I am looking for cominalites to help provide a solution.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Nutz 0]

Quote

If the wires were intact wouldn't we expect it to still function normally? If they were broken wouldn't we expect it to fail self-test?

That is what I am thinking. Just because the insulation is broken does not mean that the wires are broken.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Recently we found our second damaged Cypres2 cutter during a repack. Both were on Mirage Containers with DOMs after the AAD cutter location change service bulletin.

Have any other riggers had this experience? I am interested to see if this is a trend.

I think important information that you have would be the reserve and container sizing parameters from both rigs.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Quote

Recently we found our second damaged Cypres2 cutter during a repack. Both were on Mirage Containers with DOMs after the AAD cutter location change service bulletin.

Have any other riggers had this experience? I am interested to see if this is a trend.

I think important information that you have would be the reserve and container sizing parameters from both rigs.

.

+1

Also, was it the same rigger that packed them last?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[GravityGirl 0]

Sizing within specs per Mirage published sizing chart.

Two different riggers.

For the record, I am not a rigger. I am a gear dealer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[alexey 6]

Yep, we were found few cutters with damage like this..

My idea - its damaging when you put bottom flap (on tight rig).
Cutter bending on the edge of PC cup, and if rigger will additionally push it from above (like knee-push) - cutter can brake quite easelly.

Sorry for bad English

Lexa

[FlyingRadio 0]

Quote

If the wires were intact wouldn't we expect it to still function normally? If they were broken wouldn't we expect it to fail self-test?

This brings up some interesting behavior I noticed on a demo Cypres2 unit earlier this month (a unit that specifically said "Demo unit only" designed to showcase the system.)

I was playing around with disconnecting the cutter (by simply pulling the cutter out of its socket.) The unit did fail a self-test when turned on with no cutter attached, but did not report any error when the cutter was disconnected after the unit had been turned on and passed its self-test. In this case, the display remained at "0" (or the selected offset when used in that mode.)

I'm not sure if this is by design and operates the same way on field units, or if this is a limitation of the demo unit. Outside of edge cases like this discussion, normal usage "shouldn't" normally be impacted by such a limitation. That said, most of us turn our units on at the start of a day; we do (or should) check it before each jump, but if it's on and reports no error, I won't cycle the unit before my next jump (14h rule notwithstanding.)

Perhaps this could allow a cutter that is barely attached (due to damage or poor rigging) to pass a self-test and then become electrically disconnected. I'm not sure on this point; I'm neither a rigger nor expert on containers/AADs, so perhaps someone with more experience could speak to these points.

Quote

It would appear that in this case the AAD might not function normally if damaged, but if the reserve rip cord is pulled the reserve container should still function normally.

My thoughts exactly; even if field units work like the demo I toyed with, I can still extract the reserve if I need it.

--
Radio

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Perhaps this could allow a cutter that is barely attached (due to damage or poor rigging) to pass a self-test and then become electrically disconnected. I'm not sure on this point; I'm neither a rigger nor expert on containers/AADs, so perhaps someone with more experience could speak to these points.

I really need to write this shit down, I did test that on a Cypres2 as well as an Argus (live units, not demo's) but I can't remember what the outcome was.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[BrianM 1]

I've seen one cutter with that sort of damage. Another local rigger found it and showed it to me. I don't know what type of rig it came out of; I can ask him if he remembers.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[pchapman 279]

Quote

Cutter bending on the edge of PC cup, and if rigger will additionally push it from above (like knee-push) - cutter can brake quite easelly.

Good point.
In the past, it hasn't been any issue to knead a rig with the knees or even stand and walk on it in socks, working the air out of it. An acceptable technique with tight rigs.

(I think the actual diameter of the pilot chute cap will mean the pressure would be on the cutter cable not on the cap itself, but I don't have an open Mirage here to check dimensions. As you may be suggesting, the damage might also occur from the act of closing the bottom flap with the cutter attached to it.)

Cupped pilot chutes & cutters above them may expose the cables to damage from otherwise normal rigging activity.

[riggerrob 643]

That cable may have been damaged when the Cypres was installed. It is difficult to route the cutter through the tiny new channels in the bottom flap.

Hint: use a flexible gun-cleaning rod to route a pull-up cord through the bottom flap, then use the pull-up cord to pull the cutter through the channel.

[BrianM 1]

Quote

That cable may have been damaged when the Cypres was installed. It is difficult to route the cutter through the tiny new channels in the bottom flap.

How much force would it take to break this? Unless it's very easy to break, it would take some real ham-fisted rigging to break it while threading it through the channel. I'd think it would also be obvious it had been broken - you'd probably feel it give way, and hear a crack.

Quote

Hint: use a flexible gun-cleaning rod to route a pull-up cord through the bottom flap, then use the pull-up cord to pull the cutter through the channel.

I've always hated installing cutters in Mirages - thanks for a great tip!

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[koppel 4]

Quote

hey Koppel,

Bought a used cypres 2 dom 10/03. Was being installed in my rig, mirage G4 M2. Cutter broke while it was being placed in the sleeve on the top reserve flap.

Received the email above from one of my clients along with a couple of pictures. There was a bit of experimenting after with holding the two parts together and turning the unit on to see what happened. I am told that the unit turned on fine.

From my own experiments with both Cypres and Argus you can remove the cutter after the units have self-tested and they will show no signs that the cutter has been removed. Not recently had a Vigil in my hands to test this with to see if it is the same or not

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[BETO74 0]

Quote

Did you consult Airtec, and if yes, what was their reply?

Do the rig manufacturers have to ban the Cypres 2 now?
________________________________________________

No just ban Mirage containers problem solve!

Just kidding

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

• Quote