Socialized Medicine . . . for or against?

[PhillyKev 0]

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Agreed. Look at the difference between private and public schools.

Yeah, take a look at the succesful privatization of Philly's public schools. It's fantastic. Corrupt corporate entity more concerned about profit than education. Yippeee!!!

[lawrocket 3]

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Problem is, ERs are the only ones that will treat people who can't pay. They don't get to go to regular doctors for preventative medicine or to the dentist. They have to wait until they're really sick to go to the ER.

Actually, that's one of the primary things killing this system. The poor, and even not-so-poor, don't go to primary medical doctors. For them, the ER is how to do it.

Why do some get stuck waiting for a couple of days to see a doctor in ER? because they aren't an emergency case.

Why is it that ER's will see anybody? In 1986, Congress passed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active labor Act (EMTALA). The law to respond to "patient dumping." It used to be that hospitals would turn away those that couldn't pay and refer them to County hospitals. After that, the ER's had to stabilize patients before transfer.

Mind you, this only applies to hospitals that take Medicare money.

Rather than the focus on people getting "insured" why doesn't the govt start to focus on telling people to find a primary medical doctor? Talk about cutting costs to society?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Rather than the focus on people getting "insured" why doesn't the govt start to focus on telling people to find a primary medical doctor? Talk about cutting costs to society?

Sure, I'm all for that. Hmmm...that's pretty much what insurance does. Only problem is, the single mother with a minimum wage job can't afford it. Now what? Tell her to get a better job? That's the typical, selfish right wing answer. Why should I be responsible for someone else? Because that's what humanity and society is all about, that's why.

[turtlespeed 226]

Has anyone ever been to the DMV? Has anyone ever been to the county clerks office?
has anyone ever been to any other government office? Do you think there might be a trend there?

Would you want the "Next Doctor In Line" to treat you? What do you know about him/her? What qualifications did he/she have? How many Malpractice suits does he/she have going? How long has he/she been out of medical school.

Do you think people would actually even WANT to get a better medical education(which would be way out of thier ability) if there were no monetary compensation to drive them?

The quality of the health care would end up being so degraded.

A trip to the doctors office would be similar to going to the post office on Tax Day, or getting your drivers liscense, tags and inspection renewed all in the same day, in any major city.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

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Rather than the focus on people getting "insured" why doesn't the govt start to focus on telling people to find a primary medical doctor? Talk about cutting costs to society?

Sure, I'm all for that. Hmmm...that's pretty much what insurance does. Only problem is, the single mother with a minimum wage job can't afford it. Now what? Tell her to get a better job? That's the typical, selfish right wing answer. Why should I be responsible for someone else? Because that's what humanity and society is all about, that's why.

Wrong! There are programs in place to balance that, or have you never heard of WIC? And the typical Right Wing answer to that question is get an education and help your self as we have helped ourselves. Then go get a better job.

My ex wife and I were on WIC when my daughter was very young, I worked three and sometimes four jobs. Don't tell me you can't, because I am living proof that you can.


(OOOh, loook, My new sig line. . . .)

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

I'm personally not in favor of completely socialized medicine. I believe those with the ability to afford and obtain a higher quality of service should be able to. But I think that we also have a responsibility as human being to make sure that those without the ability to obtain decent health care on their own, can get basic health services.

[lawrocket 3]

A single mother with a minimum wage job can't afford it? Well, yes, I suppose you are right. "Why should I be responsible for someone else? Because that's what humanity and society is all about, that's why."

But, I suppose that's a question the single mother never asks - about being responsible for someone else? Homer Simpson said, "Can't someone else do it?"

Why don't you head out Brandywine this weekend and offer to pay cash for some patients at the ER? That is what humanity and society is all about, isn't it?

I was uninsured for a number of years, except for a high deductible catastrophic illness insurance. The day I almost died (104.9 degree fever - strep throat) I went to the doctor, said I was uninsured, but I had cash. 60 dollars for the visit. 10 for the shot of penicillin. 20 for the generic prescription.

I could have spent 135 dollars that month for insurance, plus the 15 dollar deductibles if I were insured. Amazing how lowering the transaction cost with cash lowers the whole payment, isn't it?

This is what the future of medicine should be about. Efficiency is not met with billions of dollars in compliance costs and billing standards and bureacracy.

It's not a solution to ALL problems, but a better way of doing things for the vast majority of cases where medical care is given.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Wrong! There are programs in place to balance that, or have you never heard of WIC?

WIC provides Federal grants to States for supplemental foods, health care referrals, and nutrition education for low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum women, and to infants and children who are found to be at nutritional risk.

That's from their website. How does that help the single mother of a 5 year old who is making enough to feed her kid? She doesn't get help. And by the way, that's all I'm asking for, is that there are programs that will cover EVERY one and don't leave a big gaping hole.

The vast majority of social programs that exist only help the completely destitute. Those who are trying, working hard, can't get ahead because they don't get any help and are stuck in limbo.

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My ex wife and I were on WIC when my daughter was very young, I worked three and sometimes four jobs. Don't tell me you can't, because I am living proof that you can.

Yes, because you had your ex-wife to help you. What about someone that doesn't have anyone to watch the kid? How are they supposed to work 3-4 jobs or get an education? And what if you're not smart enough to be educated? Oh well, born unlucky, screw you.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Wrong! There are programs in place to balance that, or have you never heard of WIC?

WIC provides Federal grants to States for supplemental foods, health care referrals, and nutrition education for low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum women, and to infants and children who are found to be at nutritional risk.

That's from their website. How does that help the single mother of a 5 year old who is making enough to feed her kid? She doesn't get help. And by the way, that's all I'm asking for, is that there are programs that will cover EVERY one and don't leave a big gaping hole.

The vast majority of social programs that exist only help the completely destitute. Those who are trying, working hard, can't get ahead because they don't get any help and are stuck in limbo.

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My ex wife and I were on WIC when my daughter was very young, I worked three and sometimes four jobs. Don't tell me you can't, because I am living proof that you can.

Yes, because you had your ex-wife to help you. (When was that, she was bed ridden for the first year - from 4 months pregnant to 8 months old) What about someone that doesn't have anyone to watch the kid?(the state has programs for that too. So do the churches in the community) How are they supposed to work 3-4 jobs or get an education?(*Shrug*, I dunno, how did I? Oh yeah, that little thing called W O R K) And what if you're not smart enough to be educated? Oh well, born unlucky, screw you. (Ummm, pretty much, I mean what are we supposed to do, give the person advantages over other people even if they haven't earned it? We already proved that was the wrong thing to do, that's how we ended up with Tom Dashel)

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lawrocket 3]

Kevin:

I guess this all comes down to how we view people's life choices. When I read in the newspaper about some poor lady who is a supermarket worker on strike having to raid the college fund for food and rent, I have to ask the question, "Um, why the hell are you going on strike if it will cost you your future stability?"

If she just said, "I am prepared to make these sacrifices" I would think, "Dang. This lady sticks to her guns." But when she complains about the problems goign on strike is causing, I have to say, "Then why'd you go on strike??"

Obviously, all choices in life have consequences. Make bad life choices, you can expect some bad life consequences. If you are single and uneducated and have a minimum wage job, many view having a child as not being the best choice this lady could have made (mind you, the sperm donor should be forced to carry the load, too. But, he chose to escape the life choices).

Socialized medicine? It can make the bad life choices a little easier to make, can't it?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Kevin:

I guess this all comes down to how we view people's life choices. When I read in the newspaper about some poor lady who is a supermarket worker on strike having to raid the college fund for food and rent, I have to ask the question, "Um, why the hell are you going on strike if it will cost you your future stability?"

If she just said, "I am prepared to make these sacrifices" I would think, "Dang. This lady sticks to her guns." But when she complains about the problems goign on strike is causing, I have to say, "Then why'd you go on strike??"

Obviously, all choices in life have consequences. Make bad life choices, you can expect some bad life consequences. If you are single and uneducated and have a minimum wage job, many view having a child as not being the best choice this lady could have made (mind you, the sperm donor should be forced to carry the load, too. But, he chose to escape the life choices).

Socialized medicine? It can make the bad life choices a little easier to make, can't it?

OMG! Well then, welcome to the right.
And the crowd goes wild . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

I agree with that view point for most things. I don't want to subsidize someone's vacations, or cable tv, or whatever other non-essential item they want, but can't have because they haven't earned it.

However, food, clothing, shelter, health care are things that I see as basic fundamental needs. And I don't give 2 craps why someone is going without them. Every human being should have that. And in this country, with the resources we have here, it's appaling and ludicrous that anyone should go without those basic things so that I can have lower taxes and get a bigger tv.

[freeflir29 0]

'I ain't fer it...I'm agin it!!!"