turtlespeed 226 #1 November 23, 2003 So just curious, what do you think about socialized medicine? I was thinking that, since the weapons manufacturers could be held responsible for someone that kills someone, if we had socialized medicine, that would make the government ultimately responsible for malpractice suits. Right?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #2 November 23, 2003 Geehsus Turtlespeed, couldn't you have loaded the options a little more? I mean, it's not as if your personal views are shining through as brightly as an exploding supernova or anything . AND you forgot an option, such as "sick people are a burden to society. They are to be shot and buried. Or buried and shot, if that is more effective". Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #3 November 23, 2003 I'd be voting for "Works fine for me" if you had included that option for those weird non-Americans who actually enjoy such benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripper0289 0 #4 November 23, 2003 Yeah, let's pattern our healthcare after canada or England, those shining beacons of light in the healthcare world. Granted, our system isn't perfect, but it's a damn site better than any of the other options out there. I work in an ER in a fairly busy hospital and we treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, so anyone who wants to say that the poor get left behind can suck it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #5 November 23, 2003 Bwahhahah, yeah, the poll is a parody. I'm just after opinions. Personally, I think a cap should be put on the medical malpractice suits, there are a lot of doctors that can't practice because the malpractice insurance is so high. Which in turn increases the cost of medical treatment. From what I have heard from people that I have talked to, socialized medicine is not good and the time one has to wait for treatment, as well as the time that one has to wait for treatment is a big downside.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #6 November 23, 2003 People from Canada come to the U.S. for heart surgeries, cancer treatments, etc. because they are told of how long they will have to wait. So what do you do in such a situation, of course you are likely to spend a lot of money to get what you need right away across the border - Socialized medicine sucks when you face this decision. If you want to make sure that a service will be in short supply and of poor quality, make the government responsible to provide it.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #7 November 23, 2003 On that, I agree. Sometimes paying for treatment is the better option. On the other hand, skydivers here can happily femur themselves, knowing there will be no hospital bills to eat up precious jump money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #8 November 23, 2003 I think private with government oversight is the best way to go. Even this isn't good for all things, as govt tends to have a "one size fits all" approach. BTW - I don't think "public health" is a good idea. It'll become just another bloated, politicized bureacracy that exists to serve itself, much like the NEA is now. I've seen the results of "public education" and "public housing"...NO THANKS. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #9 November 24, 2003 No thanks, I'd rather pick my own doctor rather than some bozo who graduated bottom of his class. Also, if I need heart surgery, I prefer to not wait 7 months to get it. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #10 November 24, 2003 QuoteYeah, let's pattern our healthcare after canada or England, those shining beacons of light in the healthcare world. Granted, our system isn't perfect, but it's a damn site better than any of the other options out there. I work in an ER in a fairly busy hospital and we treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, so anyone who wants to say that the poor get left behind can suck it. What makes you think that we don't opperate the same here.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #11 November 24, 2003 We have the best of both here, public hospitals have VERY good doctors as most of our larger Hospityals are also teaching hospitals. But should you choose to go private you are free to do so. If you are critical you tend not to be on a list too long. Unless it's a donor list in which case someone has to die for your donation. We have a very low donor ratio here It's ashame really lots of ppl dye and suffer, due to personal selfishness. If I am a donor and I make my wishes clear, my wife can over-ride them if she see fit to do so when I die.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #12 November 24, 2003 QuoteI don't think "public health" is a good idea. It'll become just another bloated, politicized bureacracy that exists to serve itself, much like the NEA is now. I've seen the results of "public education" and "public housing"...NO THANKS. Here Here!!!witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #13 November 24, 2003 Not only no..but HELL NO!!!-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #14 November 24, 2003 just look at the VA health care system, HELL NO 30 days plus for a appointment and can take all day. I do not want anything close to it, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvsdjumper 0 #15 November 24, 2003 Yeah, well the way we have it now is great isn't it? It lets some people like my father have little to no choice for a doctor. And, when he has leg pain and gets referred to another doctor, he gets to wait two weeks for the doctor to return from vacation just see if he'll even take him as a patient. Yep, great fucking system we have now. --Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #16 November 24, 2003 "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's free." - P.J. O'Rourke I've studied this extensively and written on it as well. Everybody wants good health care at a cheap price and and unlimited amount of it. Sounds great, but over the last four years of this, I haven't heard anyone state a way that it could be done, including me. You can have any two of the above. You can have inexpensive health care available to all at any time. If you get that, it won't be good care. You can have high quality health care that is inexpensive. Then, it will be rationed (like England, which has only 6 PET scanners in the whole country. Good technology witha six month waiting list to get the scan.) You can have readily available and cheap health care. It won't be good, though. This is the main problem with health care. If the health care is socialized, think of the waste involved. You might have good health care available to all, but it will be extremely expensive due to the bureacracy. On top of that, it will also have the same high transaction cost to get money from the government. Frankly, paying cash for medical care is the cheapest way to go. Unfortunately, not everyone has the cash available for it. Value judgments. I think I'd rather have high quality medical care available to all. If I don't want to spend the money on my health care, I cannot expect others to cover it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #17 November 24, 2003 >I work in an ER in a fairly busy hospital and we treat everyone, > regardless of their ability to pay, so anyone who wants to say that > the poor get left behind can suck it. So I guess one option missing on the poll is "we already _have_ socialized medicine." (at least to that degree.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #18 November 24, 2003 I think a two tier system makes the most sense. This is effectively what we have now. The "lower tier" is federally funded. It provides emergency services for those with life-threatening injuries even if their ability to pay is uncertain or lacking. It provides basic medical services to those who can't pay. It provides some other benefits (like free prenatal care) just because spending $1 on prenatal vitamins can save the state $1000 later caring for a sick baby. And refusing to treat sick babies, in my opinion, isn't an option. The "upper tier" is effectively private. It's covered by insurance companies/HMO's etc and provides better care for those who can pay. That way a rich guy need not fear that he will be treated no better than a poor patient. He'll be able to get the scan, the chemo drugs, the triple cocktail etc without worrying that a poor person will get them first. (Not to sound heartless, but in a capitalist system where goods are scarce that's exactly what happens.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #19 November 24, 2003 Quote>I work in an ER in a fairly busy hospital and we treat everyone, > regardless of their ability to pay, so anyone who wants to say that > the poor get left behind can suck it. So I guess one option missing on the poll is "we already _have_ socialized medicine." (at least to that degree.) Nah. The government even half assed that. Like you said, to a degree. We have partially socialized healthcare right now. I just don't think THIS govt can pull off socializing much of anything. Me, I'm all about personal responsibility, so anything smacking of paternal govt really frosts my ass. Healthcare though, that's one of those things were I would support a safety net. The problem is when you provide a safety net and people decide it's high enough to hold them. And there we see the problem inherent in a all socialist policies: people.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #20 November 24, 2003 I am against it completely. Given the current MEDICARE system and the oncoming prescription drug benefit, I feel that full socialization of medicine might be inevitable however. It will suck both in quality and the amount of $$$$ it drains from federal tax coffers, but I do feel it is coming. Thank you democrats. I like the privatization part of the current bill under consideration.Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 November 24, 2003 The private sector would be able to do it much better. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #22 November 24, 2003 Quoteso anyone who wants to say that the poor get left behind They may get treated . . . . . . but they get hounded to pay the exhorbitant bills and when they don't/can't their credit is marred. And if you think that's not a big deal, you should research how many become homeless. I think some sort of socialized medicine with incentives for achievement instead of frugality for doctors/healthcare workers should be considered. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #23 November 24, 2003 I find it quite odd that a government that cannot wait to get their hands out of the school system (like they did with the post office and the energy companies) would want to then put their hands back into some other piece of the puzzle to run. . .Our system isn't great but it works and I get to keep more of my salary in my pocket because the government is not controlling it. . .That being said, there are lots of ways for the government to improve upon the social welfare systems that provide insurance to the poor and working poor. . .but as usual, the government can't even run itself. . .how is it going to run healthcare. . . IMHO________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 November 24, 2003 QuoteGranted, our system isn't perfect, but it's a damn site better than any of the other options out there. Unless you happen to be poor without insurance. QuoteI work in an ER in a fairly busy hospital and we treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay, so anyone who wants to say that the poor get left behind can suck it. Yeah, lots of checkups and preventative medicince take place in the ER. Problem is, ERs are the only ones that will treat people who can't pay. They don't get to go to regular doctors for preventative medicine or to the dentist. They have to wait until they're really sick to go to the ER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #25 November 24, 2003 Agreed. Look at the difference between private and public schools.Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
