Ann Coulter

[billvon 3,116]

>I would have to say that the left falls victim to both statements . . .

So you're saying that the problem is that the right simply doesn't understand what the left is saying? If that's the case, perhaps education could solve a lot of the communications problems the two sides are having.

[Paige 0]

No the right thinks Americans are smart enough to come to their own conclusions from the facts stated. The left throws their opinion out there and hope the uneducated latch on without thought of their own. Thus, their statements are misconstrued and count on no original thought on our part.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Paige 0]

Never made any claims that she was fair and balanced. She and I are as far right as they come and are used to the petty criticisms/claims from the unaware.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[TheAnvil 0]

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,116]

>No the right thinks Americans are smart enough to come to their
>own conclusions from the facts stated.

Then why do Rush Limbaugh's fans call themselves dittoheads?

>The left throws their opinion out there and hope the uneducated
> latch on without thought of their own. Thus, their statements are
> misconstrued . . .

No offense, but you might want to get a dictionary and look up that word. The statement you are making implies that the uneducated people who read the left wing's comments don't understand them, while better educated people do understand them. Which I agree with 100% (few uneducated people understand climate change, SOx emissions or energy economies) but I have a feeling that's not what you meant.

[TheAnvil 0]

An educated populace would be the downfall of the Democratic Party. We'd be left with Libertarians, Greens, and Republicans.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[riggerrob 643]

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I would have to say that the left falls victim to both statements and count on the American people to not come to their own conclusions and to follow their statements blindly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That statement reminds of that fat blowhard named Rush Limbaugh (or however he spells his name)!
Hah!
I refuse to pay Rush what's-his-name to do my thinking for me!

[billvon 3,116]

>An educated populace would be the downfall of the Democratic Party.

So it is your position that there are no democrats in universities? A somewhat untenable position. Or would you require a specific conservative education for your statement to be true?

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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The left throws their opinion out there and hope the uneducated latch on without thought of their own.

You mean like this?

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[PhillyKev 0]

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An educated populace would be the downfall of the Democratic Party. We'd be left with Libertarians, Greens, and Republicans.

I love this kind of partisan statement that has absolutely no basis in reality. And I definitely see that coming from the right much much more than the left. I don't hear people on the left calling right wingers stupid or uneducated. Naive, yes. But to assume that people are unintelligent or uneducated because their political ideologies are different than yours only shows the lack of intelligence coming from that side.

[Paige 0]

Chances are if you have to state that someone shouldn't be offended by a statement, they will be.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Vallerina 2]

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I love this kind of partisan statement that has absolutely no basis in reality. And I definitely see that coming from the right much much more than the left. I don't hear people on the left calling right wingers stupid or uneducated. Naive, yes. But to assume that people are unintelligent or uneducated because their political ideologies are different than yours only shows the lack of intelligence coming from that side.

Beautifully stated!

It's all about my side/team/canopy/dog/mom/clothes/etc is better than yours.

If you're going to play a game of stereotypes, be sure that your side doesn't have any!

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[TheAnvil 0]

Hi Bill!
I stand by that statement 100%.

Yes, the faculties of American Universities are filled with left wingers - diversity diversity diversity unless it's diversity of thought, right? Hehehehehe.

My statement refers to the education level of the average American - horrid in all aspects according to almost every survey I've seen cited in news outlets. Now add to that the methods with which Comrades Daschle, Gore, McAuliffe, Carville, and El Jefe and Madame Clintonista motivate their base to vote, and you have a party that can win on occasion - through lies and scare tactics.

Let's look at a few of the left's rally cries over the past year or so:

Enron. I like this one. #14 ring a bell? It's easy to use this issue to scare the uneducated into believing Bush caused/allowed or had something to do with this company's demise. Enron deals with oil - Bush ran an oil company. They must be related! IDIOTS! Reference idiot-boy Waxman's statement the day after. Those of us who know a bit about the market, accounting/auditing, and the business world laugh at those making such arguments.

Halliburton. Oh dear LORD does the left make fools of themselves using this one. Dick Cheney ran Halliburton and the war in Iraq is nothing but a ploy to pour taxpayer $ into his old company! Buffoons. Educated people might research some facts and learn about LOGCAP, what the company actually does, it's actions in the Balkans under....gasp gasp...El Jefe Clintonista, Gore's favorable comments on the company when he re-invented government (much more complex than the internet), etc.

Affirmative Action. It's easy to scare uneducated people into believing they can't succeed without government mandated racial discrimination. Still waiting on ANY leftie to say 'I support racial discrimination because...' and finish the sentence without lying. Educated folk WANT the answer to such questions and don't tolerate being called 'rednecks', 'bigots', 'racists', or 'unenlightened' just because they don't agree with some left-winger's position.

Partial Birth Abortion. Rally point for the left. Educated people are inquisitive and want to learn about things. How long do you think this would remain a rally point for the left if the average JoeSchmoe wanted to see a video of this procedure? Not long, I assure you.

Out of Iraq Now. Oooooooh boy does this get applause. Let's get UN troops in there and our boys out - in 90 days! LMFAO. I'm not going to go into how stupid this is because it's hard for me to comprehend such low level thinking. Ref Dean, Kucinich, et al during the debates (note that not all of the Naive Nine are that dumb; just most).

ANWR. If the average American could find this on a map and see the size of the area Bush wants to open, do you think the lefties could use this?

Social Security. Every year the left scares our wizened citizens about Republican plans to privatize and ruin SS. Disgusting. Educated folk wouldn't believe such garbage.

I could go on, but think I've shown my point. Educated people are inquisitive. They read regularly - as a general rule of thumb. If they hear something they don't understand they try and learn about it - if the issue at hand pertains to something that affects them. The Democrats rely on people NOT to do such things - else their fear/scare tactics and lies would be impotent.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

I didn't say that lefties were stupid or uneducated. Clinton - whose politics I despise - was a brilliant man in several respects and quite educated. So are several other lefties - Laurent Tribe for example.

I stated that an educated populace would be the downfall of the democratic party. I stand by that statement. See my response to BillVon.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,116]

>Enron. I like this one. #14 ring a bell? It's easy to use this issue to
>scare the uneducated into believing Bush caused/allowed or had
> something to do with this company's demise.

I worry because the CEO of the decade's largest business failure - one that involved extensive doctoring of the books - helped set up the US's energy policy. The extent of his help is being kept secret by the administration. Sort of like an FBI agent who had been fired for incompetence helping set up the TSA.

>Halliburton. Oh dear LORD does the left make fools of themselves
> using this one. Dick Cheney ran Halliburton and the war in Iraq is
> nothing but a ploy to pour taxpayer $ into his old company!

Cheney gets paid by Halliburton - via an extensive laundering scheme that guarantees he gets paid even if something bad happens to Halliburton, but he gets paid all the same. Long involved explanations of how the checks he receives from them aren't really money lead intelligent people to believe that it's all an extensive shell game.

Halliburton gets contracts without going through the usual process of government bids. I can only imagine your shrill screams of indignant rage if a Clinton or Gore company got the slightest benefit in obtaining a government contract - and yet there is clearly nothing wrong with our vice president's old company getting contracts with NONE of the usual bidding process. Because the same rules don't apply to conservatives, of course.

>Partial Birth Abortion. Rally point for the left. Educated people are
> inquisitive and want to learn about things. How long do you think
> this would remain a rally point for the left if the average JoeSchmoe
> wanted to see a video of this procedure? Not long, I assure you.

Two very good friends of mine once had to make the agonizing decision to sacrifice one of their unborn children to give the other a better chance at survival. I thank god that they were able to make that decision without interference from the government. Implying that a bureaucrat could make a better call on a situation like this than the parents is obscene.

How long would you support a ban on partial birth abortions if it meant a child of yours had less of a chance to be born healthy?

>Out of Iraq Now. Oooooooh boy does this get applause. Let's get UN
> troops in there and our boys out - in 90 days! LMFAO.

I agree there. We lost this opportunity over six months ago. Instead of being part of a UN contingent, we will continue to send hundreds of US troops to their deaths. Way to go!

>ANWR. If the average American could find this on a map and see the
> size of the area Bush wants to open, do you think the lefties could
> use this?

I don't know; I don't think we should drill ANWR right now because we will one day desperately need that oil. We have the cheapest gas in the world right now; saying we really need it now is laughable. I'm all for drilling to keep our military from stalling, but am against drilling so more people can own cheap Ford Excursions.

>Educated people are inquisitive.

I agree. The problem with educated people is that they read up on things like Mujahideen support in the early 80's and our support of Saddam Hussein during the mid-80's. They know how to go back and research who pushed the Anti-Terror Omnibus Act of 1995 and who tried to block it. They actually remember that our president claimed the war was justified to confront the imminent danger of Hussein's massive array of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

In other words, the problem with educated people is they don't necessarily learn only the things you want them to learn.

[Vallerina 2]

Because I am post-whoring today, and this thread seems to have been completely hijacked, I just wanted to state that this is why I like billvon. He presents his side in a factual and logical format. I am doing the silly thing of not adding anything of value to the thread, but I just wanted to point out that I really respect people like Bill who are better than I am at debating topics.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[kallend 2,148]

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Hi Bill!
I stand by that statement 100%.

Yes, the faculties of American Universities are filled with left wingers - diversity diversity diversity unless it's diversity of thought, right? Hehehehehe.

I work in an American university. I have a joint appointment in engineering and in physics. Right now in the engineering college we have 2 women and 1 black faculty member. We have three women and one black on the math and science faculty. I don't see that as "diversity diversity diversity", nor do I see it as something to "Hehehehehe" about like a sophomore. Finding a right winger among my very well educated, well informed and mostly white male colleagues is very difficult.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Educated people are inquisitive. They read regularly - as a general rule of thumb. If they hear something they don't understand they try and learn about it - if the issue at hand pertains to something that affects them. The Democrats rely on people NOT to do such things - else their fear/scare tactics and lies would be impotent.

What you're not understanding is that I could say the same thing about the right. About how they are using the war on terror to scare the population into allowing them to consolidate power and usurp individucal rights. But that wouldn't be completely accurate.

Sure, there's going to be dumb people on both sides being suckered in by propaganda. But there are also educated, intelligent people, who just happen to believe differently than you do, after reading the same material, and coming to different conclusions.

Look, you're wrong. Your ideologies are completely incorrect and IMO dangerous. But I don't think you're stupid or uneducated. You're just evil

[kallend 2,148]

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>Enron. I like this one. #14 ring a bell? It's easy to use this issue to
>scare the uneducated into believing Bush caused/allowed or had
> something to do with this company's demise.

I worry because the CEO of the decade's largest business failure - one that involved extensive doctoring of the books - helped set up the US's energy policy. The extent of his help is being kept secret by the administration. Sort of like an FBI agent who had been fired for incompetence helping set up the TSA.

And then there's Executive Order 13233.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TheAnvil 0]

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I worry because the CEO of the decade's largest business failure - one that involved extensive doctoring of the books - helped set up the US's energy policy. The extent of his help is being kept secret by the administration. Sort of like an FBI agent who had been fired for incompetence helping set up the TSA.

The slant you present is one of many taken by the left - and not the most prevalent one by a long shot. Look at Waxman's comment the day after - that's indicative of the slant presented most often.

Mr. Lay's advice on energy matters was also sought by Mr. Bush's predecessor, if you'll recall. Or do you think the 14 times he overnighted in the Lincoln Bedroom during the Clinton Administration were purely social in nature? Gimme a break.

I'd have been worried had Lay's counsel - or more knowledgeable Enron personnel - NOT been sought when formulating an energy policy. At the time the company was one of the most heralded in the nation as far as energy companies go. If you can show criminal activity based upon the energy bill itself - by all means do so. As far as Enron being part of its formulation, if the environmental groups invited had shown up to the table, perhaps they would know what went on.

To understand why I laugh at lefties when this issue comes up, review the # 14 mentioned above, Landmark Legal vs EPA (the FOIA case), or the Republican request for the records of meetings used in the formulation of Hillary's 'let's socialize medicine for the children' plan.

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Cheney gets paid by Halliburton - via an extensive laundering scheme that guarantees he gets paid even if something bad happens to Halliburton, but he gets paid all the same. Long involved explanations of how the checks he receives from them aren't really money lead intelligent people to believe that it's all an extensive shell game.

Dunno the exact details, but I suspect as such given the norm for CEO retirement packages as I see them. That's a drain on company share-holders - not tax-payers. If you want to see a REAL scam check out Jack Welch's retirement package from GE. I don't like such things as they're an eternal drain on shareholders and don't do a damned thing for the company. If Cheney gets paid even if Halliburton goes under, why would the awarding of contracts to said company affect him in any way? Your argument as presented implodes upon itself.

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Halliburton gets contracts without going through the usual process of government bids. I can only imagine your shrill screams of indignant rage if a Clinton or Gore company got the slightest benefit in obtaining a government contract - and yet there is clearly nothing wrong with our vice president's old company getting contracts with NONE of the usual bidding process. Because the same rules don't apply to conservatives, of course.

Though not common, no-bid contracts are not exactly uncommon either. Especially with regards to companies such as Halliburton, Bechtel, and Brown and Root, who have extensive experience with such things. Read up a bit on government contracting and how it's carried out. See my Balkans example I presented previously. I stand by my statement - the left relies on public ignorance for this tactic to have any effect.

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Two very good friends of mine once had to make the agonizing decision to sacrifice one of their unborn children to give the other a better chance at survival. I thank god that they were able to make that decision without interference from the government. Implying that a bureaucrat could make a better call on a situation like this than the parents is obscene.

How long would you support a ban on partial birth abortions if it meant a child of yours had less of a chance to be born healthy?

My condolences to your friends - their situation would not have been affected by the ban as I read it. The procedure would still have been allowed for reasons such as your friends' or the health of the mother - both rare indeed, thank God. I stand by my statement - were the average Joe to see the procedure, it would NOT be a rallying point for the left. Period.

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Instead of being part of a UN contingent, we will continue to send hundreds of US troops to their deaths. Way to go!

I remain baffled by our CINC's Iraqi-centric foreign policy. Like you said, we're there now. Other than from the right, nobody seems to have a feasible plan to deal with the situation. UN troops? Gimme a break - only a MORON would believe such garbage. Public ignorance exploited once more.

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I don't know; I don't think we should drill ANWR right now because we will one day desperately need that oil. We have the cheapest gas in the world right now; saying we really need it now is laughable. I'm all for drilling to keep our military from stalling, but am against drilling so more people can own cheap Ford Excursions.

I disagree because you can't start production overnight. By beginning exploration now you set a foundation so we won't have to rush exploration in the future, ie. do it now safer and cheaper.

The tactic used by the left on this issue was the 'ruin Alaskan wilderness', 'Exxon Valdez', 'squander our natural treasures' garbage. Did the caribou population increase or decrease after the pipeline was built? Oh - that's irrelevant. Public ignorance exploited once again. I stand by my statement.

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>Educated people are inquisitive.

I agree. The problem with educated people is that they read up on things like Mujahideen support in the early 80's and our support of Saddam Hussein during the mid-80's.

They would therefore remember the Iranian hostage crisis, the Cold War, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the old bipolar geopolitical environment as well, and more than likely understand the reasons behind the foreign policy initiatives you just mentioned.

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They know how to go back and research who pushed the Anti-Terror Omnibus Act of 1995 and who tried to block it.

I would hope so. Then they would also know WHY those blocking it chose to do so. They might also find the late Sen. Moynihan's comments on the CIA during the time period most revealing.

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They actually remember that our president claimed the war was justified to confront the imminent danger of Hussein's massive array of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

Since you mentioned the US-Iraqi relationship in the 80's I'm surprised you made this statement. We gave the man some chem's back then. I wonder where they went - other than Kurdish villages.

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In other words, the problem with educated people is they don't necessarily learn only the things you want them to learn.

Not at all. The problem is the low level of education of the average American. More than half would require extensive reading to familiarize themselves with the points either of us have tried to make.

I stand by my statement. An increased education level - drastically increased - in this nation would be the demise of the democratic party in its current form. It would drastically alter its platform or cease to be a political force at the national level.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Kallend and PhillyKev - two of my favorite denizens of the forums.

Kallend - I think you misinterpreted my post. I was referring to the diversity mantra continuously espoused by those who care what race another person is or about the racial breakdown of this or that segment of a society or workforce as compared to the diversity of political beliefs found in university faculties today. Horowitz has written some interesting articles on the subject - I believe Cal Thomas and Larry Elder might have done so as well.

PhillyKev -

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Sure, there's going to be dumb people on both sides being suckered in by propaganda. But there are also educated, intelligent people, who just happen to believe differently than you do, after reading the same material, and coming to different conclusions.

I agree. THat's NOT how the left motivates their base, hence my previous statements.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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The procedure would still have been allowed for reasons such as your friends' or the health of the mother - both rare indeed, thank God. I stand by my statement - were the average Joe to see the procedure, it would NOT be a rallying point for the left. Period

BZZZZZTTTTT....guess you're not so well read. It bans ALL partial birth abortions with no exception even for the health of the mother. That's why dozens of states blocked enforcement of the ban within hours of it being signed into law.

[TheAnvil 0]

Perhaps I misread then, but I was under the assumption that the Hippocratic Oath always applied and the health of the mother would always take precedence.

I still maintain that were the average Joe to see the procedure or have it described in detail, this would not be a rallying issue for the left. Period.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

I disagree. The reason it is an important issue is because it is once again, the right trying to force their moral values on everyone else and removing the right of a person, in conjunction with their doctor, to decide what is in their best interest. Most medical procedures are fairly nauseating when described in detail, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be upset if they were banned because of a religious based moral opinion.

[JohnRich 4]

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to be honest... she is quite hot.

Yep, photos attached, as a public service.