quade 4 #1 December 9, 2003 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/09/bush.china.ap/index.html I don't know really what to think of this. I can't for the life of me figure out why we, of all countries, would oppose them becoming an independant state. I spent some time in Taiwan in 1990 and these people live in fear of being under total control of mainland China. They have variously over the years gotten different levels U.S. support or apathy and are -quite- bitter when not supported by the U.S. in their efforts toward independence. If we abandon their efforts, aren't we setting a portion of that populace to be future terrorists against us? Again, I simply can't figure this one out.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #2 December 9, 2003 >I can't for the life of me figure out why we, of all countries, would >oppose them becoming an independant state. Because we don't want China as an enemy. >If we abandon their efforts, aren't we setting a portion of that >populace to be future terrorists against us? I think they'll probably end up as terrorists against China. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #3 December 9, 2003 Let me try to "splain". . .IMHO, it would cost Bush the political backing of China, and the dollars poured into our country because of that political backing. . .never mind that China is a dictatorship and is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what America stands for. The idea that the American People might not agree with Bush has not even entered his mind. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #4 December 9, 2003 The issue of Taiwanese independence is like the elephant in the living room thing. Taiwan IS independent of mainland China, but they don't dare DECLARE it. China still claims it, and if Taiwan "brings it up" there will be an argument, probably involving ballistic missiles. It's about leaving it alone for now. But if China moves on Taiwan, the US will be there. We are just spread too thin, militarily, right now for arguments with the likes of China, if we can avoid them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 December 9, 2003 Quote The issue of Taiwanese independence is like the elephant in the living room thing. Taiwan IS independent of mainland China, but they don't dare DECLARE it. China still claims it, and if Taiwan "brings it up" there will be an argument, probably involving ballistic missiles. Agreed. Which is why I personally would favor the status quo of leaving it a quasi-independant as opposed to what I read today of our formally recognizing "One China".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 December 9, 2003 Taiwan and Cuba form interesting comparisons. A couple of small island nations with large powers just offshore seeking to force submission. Amazing how well Taiwan has done, isn't it? But, I won't make any economic policy arguments here. Also, I wouldn't question Bush's stance has been altered somewhat by China's demonstrated capability for space travel. If they can put a man in orbit, they can deliver a weapon anywhere in the world. Recall that China likes to test missiles by sending them over the heads of the Taiwanese to land somewhere east in the Pacific. THere's plenty at work here. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #7 December 9, 2003 Maybe this will help: A Taiwanese man has tried to appease the restless spirit of his dead wife by marrying a Barbie doll. Chang Hsi-hsum, 46, married the 28cm (11 inch) plastic doll during an elaborate ceremony at his local Buddhist temple. He believes the doll houses the spirit of his wife, Tsai, who killed herself 20 years ago because his family opposed their marriage. The ceremony appeared to be a wedding like any other, with the bride's anxious family waiting outside the temple for the groom's arrival beforehand. The bride wore a wedding dress, complete with gold jewellery and rings. As part of the ceremony a paper model of a red Mercedes car, representing part of Tsai's dowry, was burnt, so she could make use of it in the spirit world. And a gold necklace that had belonged to Tsai was placed on the doll. After the wedding, Chang and his new bride returned to their home, together with an urn which contained Tsai's ashes. 'Finally together' The urn will be placed at their home and from now on Tsai will be regarded as a member of their family. The groom's family have asked for Tsai's forgiveness by giving their blessing to the marriage, thus placating her spirit. Chang Hsi-hsun said: "I have waited for this day for 20 years. Even after all this time, I feel in love with her. "Now I will marry her spirit and take her home. We will be finally together and able to live in peace." Chang married again after Tsai's death, but the ceremony was carried out with his current wife's blessing. It is not unusual in Chinese culture to hold such a spiritual marriage, with the soul of the dead person represented by an object with their name written on it. However, what is unusual was the form of the bride chosen - a plastic doll manufactured by an American company for children to play with, and famous for her figure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #8 December 9, 2003 Taiwan? Terrorizing us? The Chinese (they be from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc.) are not for a blood bath. They'd want to beat us at our own game and it's called "business".My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 December 9, 2003 Gary -- Don't take this the wrong way, but if looked at with a certain amount of objectivity a lot of our cultural and religious customs would seem "silly". I try to not base my opinion of a culture's sophistication based on their religious beliefs. As I said, I spent some time in Taiwan in 1990. There were ultra modern computer companies just a few feet away from palmists and centuries old temples. Just like here in the United States.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #10 December 9, 2003 Quoteour formally recognizing "One China". I think it's more about saying nice things about someone you don't really like just cause they're in the room. Uh, the fancy word for that is "diplomacy" . That and the fact that if we call them anything but "one China" they won't answer us. Kinda like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "lalalalalala! I can't hear you! Lalalalalalala!" until you call him "Emperor Sparky" or the nickname de jour. You know, just when we got whole new sets of clothes for the military that make them match with where they're at, we shouldn't go sending them off somewhere that doesn't provide a tan background. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #11 December 9, 2003 Quade- Don't take this the wrong way.. I was being funny, I thought it was a hilarious response to your post..maybe even what some call here a "hi-jacking". I guess my sense of humor didn't work this time.. By the way..someone marrying a barbie-doll is weird stuff..not religion! hahahaha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 December 9, 2003 Quote By the way..someone marrying a barbie-doll is weird stuff..not religion! Again, take an objective look at what some western religions do. What things are symbolic of what. What actions are carried out symbolically. I'm certain that to an objective set of eyes much of what we in the west do would be considered "weird stuff".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 December 10, 2003 QuoteI can't for the life of me figure out why we, of all countries, would oppose them becoming an independant state. They are a defacto independent state now. However, if they were to be so bold as to declare themselves so, it could start an invasion by China, as they would assert their control over Taiwan. And the U.S. has pledged to defend Taiwan if they are attacked. We don't want a war with China. It's better to just let Taiwan keep on doing their own thing as is, without an outright declaration and break from the mainland. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #14 December 10, 2003 North Korea. We cant afford to piss off China right now. We need to use their thumb on NK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #15 December 10, 2003 QuoteBecause we don't want China as an enemy. While I agree with what you are saying I would change it to "Because we don't want a war with China". China is basically already our enemy. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #16 December 10, 2003 >China is basically already our enemy. Bush called China our "partner in diplomacy" today and we are making it clear that we will not support Taiwan's attempts at independence; that helps out China. Premier Wen Jiaboa is visiting to work on trade relations, and both sides seem to be listening to the other. That's about as far from, say, Al Qaeda as you can get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #17 December 10, 2003 QuoteThat's about as far from, say, Al Qaeda as you can get. I think that would be the UK. Read between the lines on what is going on between the US and China not on what is being said by the diplomats. They are trying their best to become a world power. They realize that they need to get along with us, at least nominally, until they are able to achieve that status. Once they get there we're going to have problems. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
