Brian425 0 #1 December 11, 2003 Just a question that I know will stir the pot a little; yet, somehow I feel compelled to ask. Kat69's post about sexuality has brought some opinions out that I have never really heard here. At what point are you a skydiver? I have only 13 jumps. I have completed my AFF and I am working on my A. The weather and some unfortunate work circumstances put me on hold for the winter. I consider myself a skydiver. Yes I am a newbie and I will have to pay my dues and learn; but, I feel that I am 100% a skydiver. I don't that jump numbers alone constitute a skydiver. In my opinion, a person becomes a skydiver when they make the commitment to learn and grow in the sport. I have bought a rig and my gear and I have made a commitment to attend canopy control school in the spring. This is a sport that I am commited to and I intend to do my best to become a safe and skilled skydiver. I have also been very lucky in where I chose to go through AFF. Everyone I have met has been nice to me. I truly mean EVERYONE. Maybe it's just my DZ, maybe it's how I treat other people. Either way, going to the DZ, even on days when I could not jump, was enjoyable. I think everyone who made comments about people who have only done a tandem or two should look back at there first days in the sport. It's amazing how far a little compassion or a kind word to a new person goes. I truly believe that it could make the difference between a one jump thrill seeker and a person who says maybe I should come back and try this again. As silly as it sounds other students looked up to me when was getting ready to do my first solo. They seemed to think that I was some highly skilled skydiver. I was just a nervous guy standing around in a student rig, wondering if I had the ability to do this alone. We all started somewhere. In my opinion, you will gain far more respect if you give respect. We all learned to ride a bicycle, drive a car and skydive. No I am not qualified to give a new person advice on gear or how to skydive. I think I am highly qualified to give them words of encouragement, a smile and some help dealing with their fears. I am not saying that you should set out the welcome wagon for every student that passes through. Just say hello and give them a chance as a person. You might be surpised at what you find. A diamond looks like every other rock until it is cut cleaned and polished. Brian The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJatLarge 0 #2 December 11, 2003 At my DZ, I was told I was officially a skydiver after I did my first clear and pull. (yes, it was a case of beer.) They said that when I pulled my own rip corde after jumping from a plane, I was officially a skydiver. I took the static line course, so I was on the rope for 5 jumps, but never did a tandem. That's how I started, and Learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 December 11, 2003 When you can walk to the door and decide all for yourself whether or not you're going to jump, fully aware of all the consequences and fully willing to to take responsibility for all of your actions -- then, you are a skydiver.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #4 December 11, 2003 I think I have to agre with Quade on this one.-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #5 December 11, 2003 What Quade said. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #6 December 11, 2003 I believe a skydiver is someone who intends to make 'another' skydive. I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I work with whuffos at my home dz and for 99% of em its just another roller coaster ride. Its not the life changing experience that it has been for a lot of us here at dz.com. At least a couple times a week a whuffo calls me and all my friends stupid. I don't think they realize it but it really pisses me off and I have to shut up before I say something really rude.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #7 December 11, 2003 I was just a little disapponted with the low jump number comments. (I should not be so sensitive.) For me this forum was a goldmine during AFF and still is today. Arlo gave me guidance about altimeters, and some other gear. I met Jonny1488, Selbub, and Nullified at my DZ from here. They all welcomed me as if I was a new friend they had not yet met. It went a long way to convince me to keep me going in this sport during the crappy summer weekends we had. I was the person who chose to continue because of the kind words and the friends I met. I am sure I am not alone in this. To give you all a little perspective. I nursed a friend through his first year riding streetbikes. He is now an instructor and coach for team Pro Motion (a motorcylce road racing club). We somtimes laugh about his first summer riding. Now I cannot keep him in my sight on the track. Did I make him so good? No. Did I help build some of the passion he has and help him build good fundamentals? YES. This sport is no different. A little patience for the students and the curious people goes a long way to building a sport. Edited for spelling. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 December 11, 2003 I think you read what I wrote in that thread. Although I hesitate to call someone who made one tandem jump a skydiver.. they have in point of fact.. skydived. It serves NO ONES purpose in the community to be rude to people who come to the DZ and want to make a jump. Be inclusive.. help them along.. hell I have never done a tandem yet. I jump at a small DZ where we have just C-182 most of the year. I know all the TM's and they will let me jump with them. I have jumped with quite a few tandem students and their Tandem masters. The people on the jump are just SO EXCITED to see other people in the air with them. I always look at those jumps as a fun jump from the airplane... thereby making for a fun time where the airplane is not full as a very fun jump..I get a chance to play when there are not a lot of other people around. As far as jump numbers as a determinate, I don't think so.. I have seen jumpers with HUNDREDS of jumps who could not do any form of RW work at all. Hell when it comes to RW I still consider myself a beginner. But some of these people... How the hell they ever got thier license in the first place is beyond me. I remember when I got my D license in 1976 there was a group of skygods at the DZ I was at...once in a while they would let one of us lowly jumpers with only a couple hundred jumps jump with them IF they needed a body to fill up the plane for a jump. It happens all over I guess. I for one will try to avoid any clique... although there are times when a group of experienced jumpers plan a dive... you HAVE to look at the level of experience of others... as a measure of self preservation. But as far as I am concerned.. if someone has done a skydive....they can call themselves a skydiver... and it does not reflect on me on iota....others... the SUPERCOOL will always try to make it something that ONLY themselves could possibly do to be oh so supercool. I feel sorry for people like that. I guess that level of insecurity comes in all kinds of packages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #9 December 11, 2003 We miss you Amazon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 December 11, 2003 QuoteWe miss you Amazon! AAAAWWW SHUCKS Now why would you miss little ole me.. I am such an argumentative bytch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #11 December 11, 2003 Because your're YOU! We LOVE you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #12 December 11, 2003 I am SOOOOO Looking forward to DEC 30th when I can get on the big airplane and FLY down to AZ.... this wet gray sky thing is REALLLLLY getting to me. I think I have about 10 jumps since I came back up here after the Byron Boogie...... I will be back down there one of these days... but for now Eloy is on the top of my TO DO list... as well as the MArdiGras Boogie at the end of Feb...a WHOLE new bunch of people to meet down there on the Gulf Coast...and I want my Barbie Doll pass there so I can be a PMS... woo hoo... Hey how many of the Byron peeps will be going to Lost Prairie this summer.... more fun in the dirt.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #13 December 11, 2003 Can't telll yet. Still out of work and that makes everything iffy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #14 December 11, 2003 Amazon, I agree with you 100% about safety issues. I personally would never ask nor accept an invitation to participate in ANYTHING in which I thought would create a hazard for others. I have the choice to put my self in danger. If I put others in danger, I am wrong and I am not a good member of that community. I did not mean to bash you or anyone else who made low jump commetns. I just want people to be aware how much of an impact experienced jumpers have on students and low jump number people. We are very fragile. We are essentially babies in this sport. We need some nurturing at times and sometimes we will ask stupid questions. That is what all newcomers do. I truly appreciate you posting a reply in here. I did not single you out in my mind when I wrote this post. It was more to point out the newbie's perspective. The opinions and actions of the more experienced skydiver really do matter to us. Hopefully we can meet one day, have a beer and a few laughs. I'll add you to the list of the friend I have yet to meet. If you are ever in NYC or up at the Ranch, I will do what ever I can do to make you visit enjoyable. And if I am down by you, I expect a free room, a wake up call and strong coffee. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYBERT71 0 #15 December 11, 2003 I started jumping about a year and a half ago and from the very first jump everyone at the DZ was super and made you feel welcome. That is one of the reasons I decided to get my license there. I went to another local DZ this weekend to do Coach Course jumps and the attitude there was totally different, like they didn't want me there. If we start treating newbies( tandems, static line, AFF) like that then why would they want to continue in the sport. It shouldn't matter how many jumps you have but that you are willing to make the commitment to furthering the sport, and the only way that can happen is by just being nice to the people who are just starting out. "If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive." Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16 December 11, 2003 No I was supporting new jumpers 100%... I think its EVERY experienced jumpers DUTY to jump with new people to help them along. That is how I learned when I started jumping.. expereinced jumpers taking me under thier wing... and teaching me what to do and what not to do. Well it also helped that I was young and not totally uncute back in 1975. It also helped that my instructor wanted to do RW and needed warm bodies that could fall out of the sky My point about some jumps though is simple. If you are doing a jump like a bigway.. then there are specific things that you have to think about and it takes experience and jumping with others to show them you can handle that so they feel comfortable with you on that jump. When you start to do VRW.... there are things that can get you hurt or killed very quickly.....its best to start slow and work up... with people who know how to do it and can show you what you need to learn. As far as stupid questions... no I for one do not believe there is a stupid question. a question is a question..... you ask to get a respectfull and reasonable answer...It is about learning. Some people learn faster than others but it still is about learning what it takes to have fun and be safe in the air. As far as a place.. hell yeah.. I have a spare bedroom.. I only live 10 miles from the DZ.. and skydiving guests are always welcome. But I gotta warn you.. NO ONE in their right mind wants to come to Seattle to skydive until say.....May Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #17 December 11, 2003 do remember that there are lowbies that think they know everything about the sport. try to give them advice and they give you attitude in return.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #18 December 11, 2003 Downwardspiral, I agree, if I act like an ass I should expect to be treated like an ass. That just how I was taught. I ask questions from everyone and then take it back to my coach to discuss things I have learned/heard. There are always a few cocky and arrogant people. That's just life. I did not barge into my DZ like a know it all and place myself in the middle. I said hello to everyone, I bought beer. I introduced myself, I bought beer, I asked a few questions, I bought beer, I bought more beer. Just kidding. (but I did buy beer) I know people's attidtude play a big part in how they are treated. I'm too old (34) to be out posing and pretending to be what I am not. I've been the stupid arrogant ass in other areas. It's just that the skydiving people I know never had to deal with it. I was very fortunate early on in racing to have a mentor who guided me. He stuck by me even when I was wrong. He pointed out my mistakes and made me understand why I was wrong. He also taught me how to mend fences when I was an ass. Then he taught me it was much easier never to have to go mend fences for no reason. If you met me at 18, you probably would have said the same aobut me. Chalk it up to youth and/or inexperiennce. Damn, I'm long winded tonight. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #19 December 11, 2003 I gave my bottled water to a tandem pax that lost his lunch on himself (and the tandem master). Tandems may be more "entertainment" than "sport" but I know my welcome at the DZ as a licensed jumper would drop off if I don't treat them kindly. And to be fair, they're doing the scariest part of skydiving - the first jump(s). I decided I was a skydiver when I became more anxious than scared at most of the preparatory phases of skydiving. That I now consider hot loads "fun" instead of "even more nerve-wracking" is a big one. At about the same time I began to love the action parts of skydiving instead of just doing them, and that was another sign. Mmm... unstable exits! Whee! -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYBERT71 0 #20 December 11, 2003 you are correct. all we can do in that case is try our best to help them and if they get out of control it should be the DZO or S&TA that talks to them. P.S. Amazon, don't you think May is a little optimistic for good weather. I mean come on now, were talking Seattle. "If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive." Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #21 December 11, 2003 Hey Rob I started jumping again in March.. and by May we had the Green Meet.... you gonna jump a ROUND with us this year????? BWAHAHAHAHA And the Al Zilk Accuracy meet will be in May...got 5 hop and pops in just a couple hours....pack jump.. pack jump...oh joy..First one was from about 2500 ft.... low clouds... But seriously.. there were days that were not TOOOO bad by May... and the Caravan showed up the first weekend of June.. its was 90 degrees.. sunny.. and I jumped my ASS off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #22 December 11, 2003 sounds like you'll become a superb skydiver as long as you keep buying beer that is www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #23 December 11, 2003 Downwardspiral, Life is easy!! Work hard, play and be good to your friends. Treat all people as a new friend until they prove otherwise. If I had only learned that at 18 instead of 28, I would be king of the world. Buying beer never hurts either. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLYBERT71 0 #24 December 11, 2003 sorry, no rounds for me but I will probably be in the Al Zilk meet. T.H. said he expected me to take it. HAHAHAHAHA Thats funny. I hope we can get the Van longer this year. It was in WA. last weekend when I was down there. "If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive." Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #25 December 11, 2003 Flyalbert, I'll add you to the friends I have not met yet list if you put on pants. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
