jehovah witness- help needed

[LivingInClip 0]

May I ask a question?

Have any of you ever been in the religion or currently in the religion? If not - I think you severely lack a good view of the religion. I say this because, my family are Jehovah Witnesses and I was raised in the religion. I was until I was around 13 and dissasocited myself from the religion.

Why did I leave it? I have to agree, that in my opinion the religion is a cult . The religion is based off guilt and isolating the members. You feel guilty for everything you do. You isolate yourself from anyone not in the religion and close your mind to any other possiblities. For me, the religion did not work.

With that said, I have seen my mother go in and out of the religion all my life. She leaves it for awhile, due to various things and then she feels incomplete and becomes extremely depressed. She goes back out of guilt. Which is the wrong reason for any religion. Guilt should not keep you anywhere, it being a relationship or a religion.

Did you also know that as a religion Jehovah's Witnesses use to have the highest suicide rate? I say "use to", because I do not know if that stat has went down or up, but durin' the mid and late 90's it was indeed a fact and there was studies done on it.


Anyways, if your friend or lover decides to join the Witnesses, all I can say is be supportive, because most likely they will need it. They'll either quickly realize it won't work out or they will become hooked. If they become hooked, it is most likely you're going to lose them as a friend or lover as the religion strictly prohibits any "worldly assiocation", which is what non - Witnesses are considered.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Why did I leave it? I have to agree, that in my opinion the religion is a cult . The religion is based off guilt and isolating the members. You feel guilty for everything you do. You isolate yourself from anyone not in the religion and close your mind to any other possiblities. For me, the religion did not work.

And this does work for who? That is why it is so destructive.

[txblondie 0]

have a little experience with this...will pm you

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[txblondie 0]

Quote

Wow, that is a tough one...

I had a little girl in my class once who was j.h and learned a little. She left the room everytime the pledge was said (every morning she had to stay in the hall). She couldn't be involved in parties celebrating anything (birthdays, christmas, easter).

As for their beliefs, it is a bit different than your mainstream christian churches. They think a select few are coming back to inhabit the earth. I am trying to remember from some stuff my kiddos parents gave me.

The email on the back of one of them (don't know how to do the clicky thingy)

www.e-watchman.com

Best of luck, I can't imagine being in your spot...

that's a bad website...don't use that one. I have family in the faith. The correct website to use is www.watchtower.org.
And not to support their beliefs or anything, but it's more than "a select few" that they believe with come back to inhabit the earth...it's basically everyone who has died, because they have paid for their sins through death and will be given a second chance.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[txblondie 0]

Quote

You are NOT overreacting!

My advice...

RUN!!![/RED]

They're a CULT - no better than snake-kissers!

I know this is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but...

How does one distinguish a cult from a religion?

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Matthew 7:20

A religion exists to serve the needs of its followers.

A cult exists to serve itself.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are a CULT!

If you let them into your life, they'll bleed you dry, telling you that you have to give everything you own to them or you won't be one of the "Chosen" (as if we pitiful beings could BUY OUR WAY INTO THE HEREAFTER WITH MATERIAL GOODS!!!).

I had an in-law who was in that wacky cult - they took everything he had. He died penniless in a nursing home, and that was only because they couldn't take that as well.

BE STRONG. Tell him that if he goes that way, he'll go without you. Your soul belongs to the Almighty, not those damned (and I do mean DAMNED) Jehovah's F'in Witnesses!!!

IF they are a cult, then you have the wrong definition...they honestly believe they are trying to help others. I know because I have family in the faith. The difference between a cult and a religion is, as my SO puts it, people in a cult are "mind-numbed". They don't see what bullshit they are dealing with.
Also, most cults are into all sorts of pagan-like rituals. The one thing I can say for Jehovah's Witnesses is that they are very mild people who do not even partake in warfare and have no rituals they participate in.
So, get off that because, even though I'm not one, I know several, and they may be annoying, but they are NOT bad.
AND THEY DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING FROM YOU. They take no money, no possessions from you. They don't even "pass a plate" for donations. They have no such thing as "becoming one of the CHOSEN" either. Do a little research before you make a total fool of yourself.
Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[Guest]

The remarks of others on this thread largely support my contentions.

I'd sooner have faith in BOB!

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[goose491 0]

Quote

I do wish I had some ground as far as the "bible" goes- (have honestly never read it....but he has been for years) Immediately I am looking for anything negative I can "throw" his way about this religion or cult.

Please don't be like this.

The difference between a religion and a cult is a lot smaller than you think. It really only boils down to the number of members. They both try to "fill a void" in the new joiner at the cost of some form of sacrafise... they both obtain their new members by promising to help fill that void. They both promise answers. In fact, in a world religion course, we were taught that all religious groups started off as no more that cults and it makes much sense if you stop to think about a religion you know and imagine it at it's grass-roots begining with very few members.

Having said that. I can imagine the tension between a couple where one is not religious and the other is J.W. The Jehova's Whitness take the Bible quite literally. It's not that they beleive "a certain few" will inherit the earth. They beleive that when judgment day comes, that all the dead will rise, that God's plan for earth will be complete and that we will live in a paradise on earth. It is heaven that receives the "certain few". (There is a Bible passage that says only 140 thousand people will sit with Jesus in the kindom of Heaven).

They read in the Bible that they are supposed to spread Christ's word, so some of them go door to door. They read in the Bible that they are not to celebrate Pagan rituals, so most of them don't even celebrate their own Birt-days. The thing about the Jehova's Whitness is that they base everything on the good book at a very literall level. If you've ever spoken to one that visited your house, you'd see how they apparently have an answer for everything. Ask a question and you will be shown a passage.

Now I'm not a very religious person at all beleive me. I was raised a catholic but renounced it in high school and am now a self-proclaimed agnostic (as in the "I believe there is something... but I'm not going to concern myself with any form of organised religion or ritual" type) But I love people so religion is a favorite topic for me as it teaches me more and more about the differences in people.

If I can offer any sort of sound advice it would be this: You know him well. The best thing you can do for him is support him and keep an eye out for him. You may feel like he's joining for the wrong reasons... if this is the way you feel, it is a valid concern that you should address. But if the man is decided, then there is little you can or should do to stop him. The spiritual passage is chosen by the individual.

Quote

To each their own- but I can absolutely not stand getting preached to or "at"....and I got my first taste of a "preaching" today. I have strong instinct- this is not going to work- infact I just realized how much I do not know him.

So then this too must be discussed. It's good to discuss religion and faith... it's bad to force yours onto someone else. "To each their own" in this case, means you are okay with him becoming J.W... but he has to be okay with you not becoming J.W. Taking the Bible literally, the J.W. believe they are saving those that they convert so they try so very hard. If you are uncomfortable with his approach when discussing these things tell him so. Not quite convinced that you are damned?... tell him you live a "Clean and moral life"... that's really all you need to do to be all good in the eyes of you maker... that'll shut him up

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[txblondie 0]

Quote

The remarks of others on this thread largely support my contentions.

I'd sooner have faith in BOB!

mh

I'm not asking you to have faith in anything...I don't put MY faith in their beliefs, but I know enough of them to know that they are harmless and should just be disregarded rather than dissed. That's all. Pretend they don't exist and let it go. If they come to your door, don't answer or tell them you aren't interested. Or tell them you worship the devil..that will get rid of them quickly. But I'm telling you that you DON'T have all the facts, and you're going off about something you don't have experience with. That's it. I'm NOT supporting them, just presenting the facts.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless.

Harmless to who? The person who originally posted is discussing the impact on their life. The JW lifestyle will definitely cause changes to their life. These changes are not "harmless".

Losing all your friends? Remember the "You can't dine at the table of demons and dine at the table of God"? Quit associating with all the friends that you have developed over your life?

Isolating yourself from society? Getting the "us/them" "evil/good" viewpoint of others? Harmless?

My ex told my son that the "end times" were just around the corner and not to worry about college. Failure to be realistic about living your life is harmless?

If the emotional, financial, and social aspects of your life are under the control of a religion, then it is a cult. I can't think of a better definition and the JWs definitely fit that one.

[txblondie 0]

Quote

Quote

Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless.

Harmless to who? The person who originally posted is discussing the impact on their life. The JW lifestyle will definitely cause changes to their life. These changes are not "harmless".

Losing all your friends? Remember the "You can't dine at the table of demons and dine at the table of God"? Quit associating with all the friends that you have developed over your life?

Isolating yourself from society? Getting the "us/them" "evil/good" viewpoint of others? Harmless?

My ex told my son that the "end times" were just around the corner and not to worry about college. Failure to be realistic about living your life is harmless?

If the emotional, financial, and social aspects of your life are under the control of a religion, then it is a cult. I can't think of a better definition and the JWs definitely fit that one.

In some instances, it is much like Muslims...there are the "mainstream" and there are the "extremists". Unfortunately, many marriages DO end, but not all; extemists will discourage things like college, but many of my family members have made it a point to send their children to college.
The faith adjusts in many ways with the times, like many religions do, just not as much. In regards to disassociating with old friends...that is a gray area. Usually, when someone converts, they will totally drop all their old friends for a period of time, feeling that they have to follow every rule to the letter. Over time, that changes. I've seen it myself with family members. I agree that, socially, it can cause issues. What I was referring to was the comment on what being a cult involved. In that way, by comparison to the dangers of a typical cult, they are TOTALLY harmless.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[goose491 0]

Quote

Losing all your friends? Remember the "You can't dine at the table of demons and dine at the table of God"? Quit associating with all the friends that you have developed over your life?

You don't, as an initiation into the club, have to just drop your friends. There is a such thing as 'falling into the wrong crowd' and the above quote deals solely with that. Recognise if you are not living morally and fix the problems. No J.W. I have ever spoken to has told me to dump friends.

Quote

My ex told my son that the "end times" were just around the corner and not to worry about college. Failure to be realistic about living your life is harmless?

Yeah, but that's the individual again. Your ex was giving advice that the J.W. would never agree with. They all beleive the end is coming, many beleive it is coming soon. But the J.W. view is that this is all the beter a reason to live you life properly... not the world is ending, so who cares about shcool. Your ex was not doing her religion a favour by speaking on it's behalf

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Faber 0]

Quote

AND THEY DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING FROM YOU. They take no money, no possessions from you. They don't even "pass a plate" for donations. They have no such thing as "becoming one of the CHOSEN" either. Do a little research before you make a total fool of yourself.
Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless.

your saying that Smilies partner is worth nothing?

dont get me wrong i get it,but if they demand that J.W. has to isolate other"non belivings" then they DO harm..

this said i has some freinds that were J.W. i just made then clear that i wont belive in that,and i rather be free of listen to it.They has acsepted it,so to me they do no harm..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[txblondie 0]

Quote

Quote

AND THEY DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING FROM YOU. They take no money, no possessions from you. They don't even "pass a plate" for donations. They have no such thing as "becoming one of the CHOSEN" either. Do a little research before you make a total fool of yourself.
Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless.

your saying that Smilies partner is worth nothing?

dont get me wrong i get it,but if they demand that J.W. has to isolate other"non belivings" then they DO harm..

this said i has some freinds that were J.W. i just made then clear that i wont belive in that,and i rather be free of listen to it.They has acsepted it,so to me they do no harm..

And that is exactly as it should be. Their belief of "bad association spoils useful habits" shouldn't be taken to the extreme. They believe that they should set an example for others, and how can they set a good example by dropping all of their relationships?
Also, there is no mandate that says that you have to leave your SO, you just have to work hard to make it work.
Like I said, it's a very restrictive faith, and it's hard to follow, much less get along with someone who practices the faith...

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

Losing all your friends? Remember the "You can't dine at the table of demons and dine at the table of God"? Quit associating with all the friends that you have developed over your life?

You don't, as an initiation into the club, have to just drop your friends. There is a such thing as 'falling into the wrong crowd' and the above quote deals solely with that. Recognise if you are not living morally and fix the problems. No J.W. I have ever spoken to has told me to dump friends.

Actually, every JW that I knew spoke of "bad associations". I knew a lot. Families who had been in the religion for years. Bad associations are basically defined as any non-JW. The "wrong crowd" is everyone else.

There may be no direct mention, but the social situations are manipulated so that the association with outside people fades. They just don't get invited to dinner, parties, a beer in the back yard.

I saw it a lot. An extreme example was 2 sisters. One quit the religion and her sister was not supposed to associate with her.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Also, there is no mandate that says that you have to leave your SO, you just have to work hard to make it work.
Like I said, it's a very restrictive faith, and it's hard to follow, much less get along with someone who practices the faith...

Back to the title of the thread.

They have a working relationship. Someone is introducing a problem. The solution is not to "work hard to make it work".

[txblondie 0]

Quote

Quote

Also, there is no mandate that says that you have to leave your SO, you just have to work hard to make it work.
Like I said, it's a very restrictive faith, and it's hard to follow, much less get along with someone who practices the faith...

Back to the title of the thread.

They have a working relationship. Someone is introducing a problem. The solution is not to "work hard to make it work".

No, you are correct, that is not the solution, and I have already PM'ed the originator of the thread with my thoughts on the solution.

*****************************************
Blondes do have more fun!

[goose491 0]

Quote

Back to the title of the thread.

They have a working relationship. Someone is introducing a problem. The solution is not to "work hard to make it work".

Yeah, the title could just as easily have been Vegans- help needed: "My boyfriend is becoming a vegan and I'm afraid it will tear us apart... yadda yadda yadda." The answer is "work hard to make it work."... and then there are tips at what you can do to help "make it work"... that's why you create the thread in the first place... to find tips on how "to make it work".

True, but "Run away. The J.W. will take away all your friends and ruin your life isn't either."

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

True, but "Run away. The J.W. will take away all your friends and ruin your life isn't either."

If your choices are:
(1) cutaway now.
(2) your life will suck for 2 years and then cutaway.
I still recommend option 1.

Ever talk to a friend who is thinking of divorce for valid reasons? Someone says "Oh, try and work it out for a year and then get divorced." This person is about to have a lot of reasons.

Ka-ching!

[LivingInClip 0]

As much as I dislike the religion, some of you refuse to accept that it works for some. Yes, I have said that it is a cult and it keeps people by guilt - but I have met a few people in my lifetime that are perfectly content with it and believe everything about it. I don't see how that is different from any other religion , which is why I have no religion. The main thing about religions is for security and beliefs. People do believe what the Witnesses preach.

Yes, I disagree with everything they preach and do, but I won't judge someone for being in it and if it works for them, more power to them.

One final thing, it is in my experience that being raised in the religion will lead to one or two things. Both are extreme. You will either, be like (A) my mother who cannot leave the religion, no matter how hard she tries or (B) you'll be extremely jaded and critical of any religion, like I am. Either way, it is from one extreme to the other.

[Nightingale 0]

one of my relatives' SOs was raised JW. He left the faith before he met my family member. When his family found out, they COMPLETELY cut him off, to the point where they will not speak to him, and if he calls, they hang up, if he goes over to say hi, they slam the door in his face. Prior to this, he had an extremely close relationship with his family. He did nothing to them except choose not to believe as they do. I heard the entire phone call on speakerphone. (we are close friends, and he needed some support... his SO was out of town)

They first tried to talk to him about coming back to the religion. Then, they threatened. Finally, they said if he didn't they would never speak to him again, because the religion forbid associations with non JW. They then hung up, and refused to answer the phone when he tried to call back. This was over a year ago, and the situation has not changed.

[goose491 0]

Quote

If your choices are:
(1) cutaway now.
(2) your life will suck for 2 years and then cutaway.
I still recommend option 1.

Hehee, I would chose 1 too... but I don't really like those as my only two options.

Quote

Ever talk to a friend who is thinking of divorce for valid reasons? Someone says "Oh, try and work it out for a year and then get divorced." This person is about to have a lot of reasons.

I'm assuming from the original post, that it's not "I'm leaving, back me up or convince me not to". Karen is looking for education upon which she will make a decision.

Quote

....but really do not know what so called Jehovah Witness's are about

"So called" ?? Give her your oppinion, but be sure to state it as oppinion.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[LivingInClip 0]

Quote

one of my relatives' SOs was raised JW. He left the faith before he met my family member. When his family found out, they COMPLETELY cut him off, to the point where they will not speak to him, and if he calls, they hang up, if he goes over to say hi, they slam the door in his face. Prior to this, he had an extremely close relationship with his family. He did nothing to them except choose not to believe as they do. I heard the entire phone call on speakerphone. (we are close friends, and he needed some support... his SO was out of town)

They first tried to talk to him about coming back to the religion. Then, they threatened. Finally, they said if he didn't they would never speak to him again, because the religion forbid associations with non JW. They then hung up, and refused to answer the phone when he tried to call back. This was over a year ago, and the situation has not changed.

No offense, but while you have a good example of how bad the religion can be - I also have to point out, that any religion has extreme people. I know one person who is in the religion and even after I left, if he see's me he will stop and talk to me and act like I am still part of it.

I guess my point is, while I agree the religion on a whole can be a huge mess, there are people who believe in it and there are people who are nice.

Still, I can't recommend getting into the religion, unless its something you truly believe in.

[billvon 3,077]

>Harmless to who? The person who originally posted is discussing the
> impact on their life. The JW lifestyle will definitely cause changes to
> their life. These changes are not "harmless".

>Losing all your friends?. . . Quit associating with all the friends that
>you have developed over your life?

>Isolating yourself from society? Getting the "us/them" "evil/good"
> viewpoint of others? Harmless?

>If the emotional, financial, and social aspects of your life are under
>the control of a religion, then it is a cult.

You've just defined the changes many people go through when they start skydiving. I know a lot of people who are now broke, have lost most of their old friends, have no other social life than skydiving, and who derive most of their happiness from jumping. And unlike being a JW, skydiving can definitely kill you.

There are addictive personalities in both religions and skydiving. In those cases it is the addictive personality, not the sport/religion, that needs to be dealt with.

[shedao 0]

I'll tell you exactly why I dislike the Jehova's Witness group - excommunication (or disfellowship). When you commit what is deemed a sin and disobey god's law (determined by a judgement of church elders) then you are disfellowshipped and removed from the church. Other JW's will then treat such a person as if they do not exist (this is demanded of them unless they also with to be excommunicated) regardless of how you were related before.

My child's mother comitted a sin by having a kid out of marriage and was removed. Her own mother does not speak to her now. Now who in their right mind would not talk to their own child because they have been removed from the group? I'd like to see anyone try to tell me to not talk to my child because they had comitted such a sin. I'd walk right out. It's not as if she commited murder but yet she was treated with contempt. Not exactly what Jesus would do. I'm not against religion, each person has his/her own beliefs and I respect that, but I think this particular practice is especially vile and it has touched someone I love. I respect religions that teach love and understanding for each other, not hate for the world.

http://watchtower.observer.org/

[LivingInClip 0]

Quote

I'll tell you exactly why I dislike the Jehova's Witness group - excommunication (or disfellowship). When you commit what is deemed a sin and disobey god's law (determined by a judgement of church elders) then you are disfellowshipped and removed from the church. Other JW's will then treat such a person as if they do not exist (this is demanded of them unless they also with to be excommunicated) regardless of how you were related before.

My child's mother comitted a sin by having a kid out of marriage and was removed. Her own mother does not speak to her now. Now who in their right mind would not talk to their own child because they have been removed from the group? I'd like to see anyone try to tell me to not talk to my child because they had comitted such a sin. I'd walk right out. It's not as if she commited murder but yet she was treated with contempt. Not exactly what Jesus would do. I'm not against religion, each person has his/her own beliefs and I respect that, but I think this particular practice is especially vile and it has touched someone I love. I respect religions that teach love and understanding for each other, not hate for the world.

http://watchtower.observer.org/

My aunt is disfellowshipped and so is my mother, but my mother is currently trying to get re-instated. My grandmother will not even eat at the same table with my mother, due to her disfellowshipment.

She got disfellowshipped for smoking, by the way.