captainpooby 0 #176 December 11, 2003 QuoteAnybody have a study that breaks down deaths in city vs suburb vs country settings? We've all seen "this kills this many people a year." Anybody have one with locations factored in? "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #177 December 11, 2003 Quote"More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. I own it. I was referring to buckets vs bathtubs vs bullets vs barnyard equipment in different areas. I was interested in billvon's idea. Lott studied trends in crime in every single county in the US. Most thorough study to date. But he focussed on firearms and controlling for other factors (specifically the effect of concealed carry). He did not look at other causes of death.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #178 December 11, 2003 QuoteQuote"More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. I own it. I was referring to buckets vs bathtubs vs bullets vs barnyard equipment in different areas. I was interested in billvon's idea. Lott studied trends in crime in every single county in the US. Most thorough study to date. But he focussed on firearms and controlling for other factors (specifically the effect of concealed carry). He did not look at other causes of death. I'll look. I have my sources. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #179 December 11, 2003 QuoteQuote"More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. I own it. I was referring to buckets vs bathtubs vs bullets vs barnyard equipment in different areas. I was interested in billvon's idea. Lott studied trends in crime in every single county in the US. Most thorough study to date. But he focussed on firearms and controlling for other factors (specifically the effect of concealed carry). He did not look at other causes of death. Here you go but it only includes Mississippi. It does break it down by county. I dont think you find a site that compiles this on a national level. http://msucares.com/safety/death/statistics/ I think you will see more people drown county by county than are killed with firearms. Tractor deaths are less than firearm deaths but still very prevelant. I dont know thw geography of the state, you will have to compare maps to population centers yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #180 December 11, 2003 How fucking kick ass is that?????? Dude, Thanks!!! It's wild to see that falling caused nearly four times the deaths as firearms and that asphyxiation caused two times as many people's death. Drownings were almost twice the number too. Even the number of poisonings are two percent greater than firearm deaths. chart mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #181 December 11, 2003 QuoteI was referring to buckets vs bathtubs vs bullets vs barnyard equipment in different areas. This isn't broken down by urban vs. rural, but gives an idea of the number of deaths from different causes. Odds of Death Due to Injury, United States, 1996 Manner of Injury Deaths One-year Life-time 1996 Odds Odds --------------------------------- ------- ---------- --------- ALL INJURY DEATHS 150,298 1,765 23 All Accidental Deaths 94,948 2,794 37 Motor-vehicle 43,649 6,078 80 All Suicide Deaths 30,903 8,584 113 All Homicide Deaths 20,634 12,857 169 Suicide by firearm 18,166 14,603 192 Falls 14,986 17,702 233 Homicide by firearm 14,037 18,899 248 Poisoning 9,510 27,895 367 Pedestrian 6,028 44,009 578 Drowning 3,959 67,008 881 Fire 3,741 70,913 932 Choking 3,206 82,746 1,087 Complications of medical care 2,919 90,882 1,194 Air and space transport 1,061 250,032 3,286 Firearm missile 1,134 233,937 3,074 Mechanical suffocation 1,114 238,136 3,129 Machinery 926 286,484 3,765 Struck by falling object 732 362,410 4,762 Excessive cold 685 387,276 5,089 Railway 565 469,529 6,170 Electric current 482 550,382 7,232 Legal Intervention 337 787,193 10,344 Excessive heat 249 1,065,398 14,000 Hunger, thirst, exposure, neglect 224 1,184,304 15,562 Struck by objects or persons 171 1,551,368 20,386 Explosive material 130 2,040,646 26,815 Cutting or piercing 97 2,734,887 35,938 Lightning 63 4,210,857 55,333 It's interesting to note that as many people die from falls each year, as are murdered by criminals with guns. Ban tall objects! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #182 December 11, 2003 QuoteIt's wild to see that falling caused nearly four times the deaths as firearms and that asphyxiation caused two times as many people's death. Drownings were almost twice the number too. Even the number of poisonings are two percent greater than firearm deaths. Yeah, but there are no national organizations advocating for tall object control, asphyxiation control, or water control. Only gun control. I guess other causes of death don't really count. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #183 December 11, 2003 QuoteTractor deaths are less than firearm deaths but still very prevelant. That surprises me. If I added up all the county numbers correctly, there were 223 tractor-related deaths in Mississippi over 17 years, out of a population of 2,537,000, or about one out of every 195,000 people, per year. If you extrapolate that number to the nationwide population, that means about 1,300 people per year die from tractor accidents! Yikes! Ban tractors! Here are some hard numbers that don't require extrapolation: Farm Safety I think Sarah Brady should start a new organization: Tractor Contol, Inc. "We don't want to confiscate tractors from farmers, we just want them to register their tractors so they'll be safe." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #184 December 11, 2003 Quote Suicide by firearm...........18,166..........14,603..........192 Homicide by firearm.........14,037..........18,899..........248 Firearm missile................1,134..........233,937..........3,074 I have to wonder what exactly qualifies as "firearm missile." Accidents? Death by stupidity involving firearms?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #185 December 11, 2003 Thanks for the info. Not exactly what I'm looking for, but you're not Hertz! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #186 December 11, 2003 QuoteIt's wild to see that falling caused nearly four times the deaths as firearms and that asphyxiation caused two times as many people's death. Drownings were almost twice the number too. Even the number of poisonings are two percent greater than firearm deaths. Haven't you been listening to the other side? It's all about spinning the numbers (unless someone's downright lying). It sounds better to say there were 33% more poisonings than firearm deaths. (It's true, 6% to 8%, but 33 sounds better than 2. )witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #187 December 11, 2003 QuoteIt's wild to see that falling caused nearly four times the deaths as firearms and that asphyxiation caused two times as many people's death. Drownings were almost twice the number too. Even the number of poisonings are two percent greater than firearm deaths. Those are accidental death statistics, not total numbers. edit to add: your point still stands, but on John's numbers, not Capt P's.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #188 December 11, 2003 QuoteQuote Suicide by firearm...........18,166..........14,603..........192 Homicide by firearm.........14,037..........18,899..........248 Firearm missile................1,134..........233,937..........3,074 I have to wonder what exactly qualifies as "firearm missile." Accidents? Death by stupidity involving firearms? Yes, I think that number represents accidental gunshot fatalities. Although I don't understand why they confuse the issue by calling it "missiles"... There are three categories of death by firearms: Suicide, Homicide, and Accidents, and those numbers show the correct proportions. It's interesting to note that the anti-gun folks like to lump all three categories together and talk about "gun deaths". They will lead the public to believe that the total number represents murders. What they don't clarify, is that more than half of all gun deaths are self-inflicted, from suicide. They do that to make the gun murder problem look twice as big as it really is. Beware of such quotes. Furthermore, each of these three categories must be addressed with different responses. Criminal background checks at purchase time won't stop suicides or accidents. Gun safety education won't stop suicides or homicides. Mental health counseling for depresssion won't stop accidents or homicides. So by lumping the numbers all together under a category they call "gun deaths", they imply that there is some kind of common response that will address all of them. And that's not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #189 December 11, 2003 QuoteSuicide by firearm 18,166 14,603 192 Wow and some of you people don't think this is a problem. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #190 December 11, 2003 QuoteFurthermore, each of these three categories must be addressed with different responses. Criminal background checks at purchase time won't stop suicides or accidents. Gun safety education won't stop suicides or homicides. Mental health counseling for depresssion won't stop accidents or homicides. So by lumping the numbers all together under a category they call "gun deaths", they imply that there is some kind of common response that will address all of them. And that's not true. Well, there is one solution. Let's wave our magic wand and make guns everywhere disappear. There would be no more firearms murders, firearms suicides, or firearms accidents. Of course, I'd wager homicide numbers would go up, suicides would be unaffected, but hey, at least they're not committed with those evil little firearms. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #191 December 11, 2003 I don't know anyone who doesn't think suicides are a problem. But for the umpteenth time canuck, suicides will occur with or without firearms.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #192 December 11, 2003 Maybe so-called "smart-gun" technology should focus on the shooter not being able to shoot himself whether on purpose or not. Maybe that would make those who wanna check out work a little harder... mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #193 December 11, 2003 QuoteQuoteSuicide by firearm 18,166 14,603 192 Wow and some of you people don't think this is a problem. No...this is a problem All Suicide Deaths 30,903 8,584 113 ----------------------------------------------------- What does the method have to do with the cause? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #194 December 11, 2003 QuoteI don't know anyone who doesn't think suicides are a problem. But for the umpteenth time canuck, suicides will occur with or without firearms. Yes I agree that suicides would continue to happen. But I'd be curious to see some sort of stat which break down suicide attempts and the method of choice. Not everybody dies when they OD on drugs, not everybody dies when they slit their wrists. But most people will die when they put a gun to their head and pull the trigger. Hey continue on with your debate folks, it's just not worth my time. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #195 December 11, 2003 Skydiving is listed as an "idea" on certain websites for those who wanna off themselves. A sudden lack of firearms in today's society would impact us--as skydivers without any constitutional protections to do what we do--greatly, I believe. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #196 December 11, 2003 QuoteThanks for the info. Not exactly what I'm looking for, but you're not Hertz! Google is such a wonderful thing. I typed in "gun deaths rural urban" and got this reference (free registration required to view): Medscape Summary:"Compared with urban settings, rural areas had a higher percentage of gun deaths from shotguns and rifles and a higher percentage from suicides and accidents (P < .01). Two similarities, however, stand out as more important than the confirmed hypothesized differences: handguns accounted for more than 50% of gun deaths, and suicides accounted for nearly 70% of gun deaths in both urban and rural areas." That makes sense to me. The big cities are where the homicides are, and the rural areas are more likely to be accidents due to hunting, target shooting and such. Warning: this article has an anti-gun taste to it... I get that from the cherry-picked, contrived statistics designed to make guns look bad, like this one: "the number of firearm-related deaths in 1991 exceeded the number of motor-vehicle-related deaths in 7 states and Washington, DC." Another way of saying it is this: "In 43 states, auto accidents killed more people than guns." But that just doesn't make guns sound as bad as the contrived phrasing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #197 December 11, 2003 QuoteYes I agree that suicides would continue to happen. But I'd be curious to see some sort of stat which break down suicide attempts and the method of choice. Not everybody dies when they OD on drugs, not everybody dies when they slit their wrists. But most people will die when they put a gun to their head and pull the trigger. I'd be interested in seeing break down including attempts, method, and success (what you meant I think). However, I have to tell you I've been to two scenes of attempt where the shooter/victim was still alive. It's no more a guarantee. It's a matter of determination versus "cry for help."witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #198 December 11, 2003 QuoteWarning: this article has an anti-gun taste to it... That one seems to focus on the "handguns are evil and must be vanquished" strain.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #199 December 11, 2003 QuoteWow and some of you people don't think this is a problem. I see that you still have yet to learn how not to stuff incorrect words into the mouths of others. Once again: no gun owners here are saying that it isn't a problem. Try to remember it this time. We're just saying that passing more stupid gun laws isn't going to help. And in the "Bowling for Columbine" thread, you agreed with that statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #200 December 11, 2003 Come on. I've got tell you if I wanted to off myself, I wouldn't choose a method requiring waivers, hours of training, and with so many safety catches to prevent death. Whoever suggested that is just as ignorant about skydiving as your average 'journalist.' edited to add: if I was going to go early, I think I'd like drowning. I read that you get a bit high and happy before you go, hypoxic. A lot less painful than some other ways to go.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
