Guns & Political Correctness

[JohnRich 4]

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All kids need some kind of basic firearm safety training.

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No more than all kids need a basic livestock safety training course. They do if they live on a farm, of course. Such decisions are best left up to the parents.

Then if the parents decline to allow their children to learn gun safety in class, they don't have any excuse to sue the gun companies later if their child does something stupid with a gun and gets hurt.

[billvon 3,110]

>Then if the parents decline to allow their children to learn gun safety
> in class, they don't have any excuse to sue the gun companies later
> if their child does something stupid with a gun and gets hurt.

In an ideal world, yes. Unfortunately americans have a habit of suing everyone for everything when their child gets hurt - whether it's a gun, toy, car or ladder that's involved with the injury.

[rehmwa 2]

Here's a twist -

The (if the stereotypes hold true) 'right' leaners wanting to mandate a type of training for the kids.

and the (same) 'left' leaners saying to let the parents decide.

My whole world just turned upside down. I think I'm blind.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

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Are both of you still got your knickers in a twist over that one!

Nah. The USofA is a representative democracy. DZ.com is Sangiro's house, and house rules apply. It's all good.

and fyi - no knickers. I was at a formal event wearing a prince charlie get up. [kilt, bonnie prince charlie jacket, sporran, etc]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhillyKev 0]

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and fyi - no knickers. I was at a formal event wearing a prince charlie get up. [kilt, bonnie prince charlie jacket, sporran, etc]

I hope you were packing

[Kennedy 0]

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Here's a twist -

The (if the stereotypes hold true) 'right' leaners wanting to mandate a type of training for the kids.

and the (same) 'left' leaners saying to let the parents decide.

My whole world just turned upside down. I think I'm blind.

Actually, I'm not a fan of the public education system as a whole. But if the federal government is going to interfere, the least they can do is encourage safety. [they don't seem to encourage learning]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rehmwa 2]

Slippery slope. That's how it gets started. First gun safety, then soon they are handing out condoms and teaching about 'alternate' lifestyles and not letting boys play dodgeball anymore. Won't someone think of the children?

oh, wait

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Kennedy 0]

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I hope you were packing

Actually I don't have the hardware or the license here in AL. However, a friend of mine (also in attendance) showed me just how easy it is to keep a pistol, sgian dubh, and revolver using the jacket and kilt, without using pockets or the sporran.

I only had my Sgian Dubh, and it was worn open [right ankle]

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

They already control the curriculum, and I'd rather they teach the rules of safe handling than "guns are evil."

You should see what's in kids "Health and Wellness" books. It'd make a skydiver blush.

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[Jimbo 0]

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I don't agree with that. All they need to know is: Stop, don't touch it, find an adult.

It doesn't work for cigs, alcohol, or drugs. Why would it work with guns?

I do believe that everyone should have at least BASIC gun safety lessons sometime while in school. As John pointed out, they're going to run into one someday. I would never advocate giving shooting lessons as a mandatory learning experience. Children should know a few things about guns though, the idea that every gun is loaded until you've proven otherwise. How to unload a gun and make sure that the chamber is clear, etc... Just the basics.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

I don't know. I'd prefer that my nephews and neices didn't "think" they know how to unload a gun and when they find one decide that's what they should do.

[JohnRich 4]

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Here's a twist - The (if the stereotypes hold true) 'right' leaners wanting to mandate a type of training for the kids. and the (same) 'left' leaners saying to let the parents decide. My whole world just turned upside down. I think I'm blind.

Yeah, I just had one of those kind of moments when Pres. Bush signed the new Medicare prescription drug bill: The Repulicans are handing out more benefits and spending more money, and the Democrats are opposing more benefits and more spending!

Topsy turvey indeed.

[Kennedy 0]

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In the competitive shooting sports we had a saying for talkers. We'd let them yammer on and on and then when they ran out of steam we'd point at their target and ask "so where are the holes?"

By the way, without the "talkers," are you sure you'd still be shooting today? Do I need to list for you the plethora of schemes that have attempted to end gun ownership? [yes, I felt like being melodramatic]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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Yeah, I just had one of those kind of moments when Pres. Bush signed the new Medicare prescription drug bill: The Repulicans are handing out more benefits and spending more money, and the Democrats are opposing more benefits and more spending!

Well, don't give the dems too much credit. Most of them actually opposed it because it didn't give out enough of an increase in spending and benefits.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[JohnRich 4]

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I'd rather they teach the rules of safe handling than "guns are evil."

Yes, any gun safety program in school should be politically neutral, neither teaching that guns are "good" or "bad". Just that they are out there, and they better know what to do if they encounter one.

No different from fire safety, bicycle safety, driver's education, avoiding strangers, and all the other safety messages we already teach kids.

[Kennedy 0]

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I don't know. I'd prefer that my nephews and neices didn't "think" they know how to unload a gun and when they find one decide that's what they should do.

How old are they?

How about going with the stepped approach? Start with Eddie Eagle when they're young, teaching them to respect and not mess with guns, and later teaching them basic safety?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[billvon 3,110]

>As John pointed out, they're going to run into one someday.

I've run into more farm machinery and farm animals than guns in my life. Walked behind horses, pushed horse-drawn carts out of the mud, and learned to drive a tractor by trial and error. And 140,000 people are permanently disabled every year from farm machinery or livestock accidents. But it would be silly to mandate farm machinery safety training. It's up to parents to decide if their kids need such training.

[PhillyKev 0]

Still...I don't know. Some people have moral problems with guns in general. I know quite a few hard core pacifists who would never want their children exposed to them, no matter what good could come from it. That's their right, I think they're too controversial to mandate any kind of education like that. Like I said, after school curriculum, optional phys ed course maybe (those opting out can take golf or whatever)

[Kennedy 0]

How about this: make it a standard part of the curriculum, but let parent write notes exempting kids. We had a few classes kids didn't take because of something like that. Sex ed and the like. Sound good?

I think it would be better to make it standard during the school day than to have it optional after school, but that's just me. Let kids/parents opt out instead of making them ask to be in.

(Personally, I'd like to see rifle/shooting clubs make a come back, but with the bureaucrats in place I won't hold my breath. Outdoormanship and conservation clubs, too.)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Jimbo 0]

Do you suppose that the average person is more, or less likely to encounter a gun, or unsecured farm machinery and livestock in their lifetime?

I shouldn't have suggested in my earlier post that we make it a government sponsored mandate to teach gun safety to everyone. I do think that it ought to be out there though, in the public schools, as an option. Whether it's an after school program, or takes the place of a study hall, it ought to be out there. I suspect that if more parents knew that they could get basic gun safety training for their children, and for free, that they would take advantage of it.

Edit: Just saw Kennedy's post, I like that approach better than mine.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[billvon 3,110]

>Do you suppose that the average person is more, or less likely to
> encounter a gun, or unsecured farm machinery and livestock in their
> lifetime?

Depends where they live. Inner city - guns. Suburbs/rural - farm animals.

[captainpooby 0]

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>As John pointed out, they're going to run into one someday.

I've run into more farm machinery and farm animals than guns in my life. Walked behind horses, pushed horse-drawn carts out of the mud, and learned to drive a tractor by trial and error. And 140,000 people are permanently disabled every year from farm machinery or livestock accidents. But it would be silly to mandate farm machinery safety training. It's up to parents to decide if their kids need such training.

BAN TRACTORS!!! For the children!

Gun control is like when the speed limit is 30mph and somebody flies through at 90.
Solution: Lower speed limit to 20mph.

[Kennedy 0]

Just my experience (and not counting my family or firearms related trips):

I grew up in the NJ suburbs. No too far from NYC or the boondocks. The only time I encountered farm animals was through the car window. I was introduced to horses and have since become a fairly accomplished rider. All I know about other farm animals is how they taste once they're cut and cooked, and "don't mess with the bull, you'll get the horn."

As for guns, I came across a few here and there. Definitely more than cows and chickens. Still remember one incident with a loaded pistol. I don't know how it turned out because I got the hell out of there. (my dad put the fear of G-d in me)

edit: and this was New Jersey, not exactly firearms central.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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>Do you suppose that the average person is more, or less likely to
> encounter a gun, or unsecured farm machinery and livestock in their
> lifetime?

Depends where they live. Inner city - guns. Suburbs/rural - farm animals.

Actually, IIRC firearms ownership is much higher in the suburbs and rural areas than it is in cities.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

Anybody have a study that breaks down deaths in city vs suburb vs country settings? We've all seen "this kills this many people a year." Anybody have one with locations factored in?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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