Guns & Political Correctness

[Deuce 1]

No. The clip of an M1 is nothing like the stripper clips used on SKS's and the M14. The clip is inserted in it's entirety into the reciever.

I am looking at my copy of "The M1 Grarand: Owner's Guide", but Scott A.Duff.

The fully loaded clip is inserted into the reciever on top of the follower assembly. Once the last round is fired the clip is ejected with a very cool 'PING' sound.

The M1 Garand does not have any part referred to as a magazine.


Edit. I've owned several that I won at OCMP competitions. I've even been known to shoot them on occasion.

[Kennedy 0]

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Revolvers chambered for auto cartridges use clips. Full and half moon.
But you are right, not many.
A clip holds the bullets so they can be inserted into the magazine. So it technically is a "bullet holder".
I have ammo loaded onto stripper clips for my AR15's. Attach the "spoon" to the magazine, insert stripper clip into spoon and push bullets into mag.

I know you know better than to confuse "bullet" with "cartridge." I'll grant that clips can be used for revolvers, but they are not required. And it stands that clips are for loading cartridges into magazines [or cylinders].

For anyone's confusion: the bullet is the projectile leaving the barrel. The cartridge is the entire unit of ammunition, including the casing, propellant, bullet, and primer.

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[Kennedy 0]

The empty space in the receiver is by default considered a magazine. And yes, you are correct, there are important differences between the m1 type clip, the stripper clips, and moon clips.

Not only have I never won one, no one I know has gotten one from the DCMP either.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,111]

>The fully loaded clip is inserted into the reciever on top of the follower assembly. . . .

I'll let you guys duke this one out. In my case the gun in question was a 9mm automatic. The guy carrying it was a 17 year old kid who got it from his father. This was a guy who could burn water. Twice I had been driving his boat, he had stepped behind the wheel and seconds later something had broken - the prop shear pin, the steering linkage. His cars lasted only months.

We took one look at the gun, thought about his experiences with devices in general, and took off running. He chased us, saying "come on guys! I took out the clip! I'm not an idiot!" "Did you check the chamber?" asked Jan. "What?" he asked (from about 100 yards back.) "The chamber! There can be a round in the chamber even with the clip removed!" "Oh . . . uh . . ." We were all expecting to hear a crack as he fumbled with the gun trying to check. Fortunately we got him to put it away and we came back.

I know little about guns; a lot of people know far more than me. Some people - people who _carry_ guns - know a lot less.

[Kennedy 0]

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Hmm. Having the power to overrule all others, but no one has the power to overrule them isn't "clout"? Your definition of "clout" is not the same as mine.

I never said they don't have clout, I said they are not the only ones with clout.

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As far as choosing to enter a minefield, well, sometimes it just has to be done.

Sometimes it has to be done, but it must be nice to be able to say "nah, not this one," and go sit behind a desk.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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I'll let you guys duke this one out. In my case the gun in question was a 9mm automatic. The guy carrying it was a 17 year old kid who got it from his father.

Odds are very good that it was a magazine, not a clip. And his father should be ashamed of himself for not instructing the boy properly before handing him such a tool.

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I know little about guns; a lot of people know far more than me. Some people - people who _carry_ guns - know a lot less.

So would you be for basic firearms safety being taught in school?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,111]

>So would you be for basic firearms safety being taught in school?

For people who want to use guns, sure. I could see that being taught as an after-school activity, especially as part of a hunting club or an outdoors club.

[Kennedy 0]

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>So would you be for basic firearms safety being taught in school?

For people who want to use guns, sure. I could see that being taught as an after-school activity, especially as part of a hunting club or an outdoors club.

Too bad my principal basically outlawed the rifle club before it even formed. Wouldn't have cost a dime, we were willing to fund and supply it ourselves. And the school board backed him. Of course, they did the same thing when he refused to allow a christian group to meet after school in the gymnasium. Too bad some useful lawsuits are stopped short by funding while others never seem to go away.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Deuce 1]

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The empty space in the receiver is by default considered a magazine.

Your generalization validates calling a magazine a clip, rather than a magazine. Just because a word is in common usage, does not make it correct. Again I have the definitive tome in my hands, and there is no magazine on an M1 Garand. You choosing to call it one, does not make it so.

Come to Eloy. You'll meet a guy who has won 3.

I just happen to have a 1943 M1 Garand reciever in my hot little hands as I type. There is no magazine.

I suggest you move on to less tangible subjects like the relative worth of the perception of safety of non-gun owners in armed societies and the like.

[Kennedy 0]

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Your generalization validates calling a magazine a clip, rather than a magazine. Just because a word is in common usage, does not make it correct. Again I have the definitive tome in my hands, and there is no magazine on an M1 Garand. You choosing to call it one, does not make it so.

I never said common usage makes it so [see my posts on "assault weapons"]. I said it fits the definition for a magazine, whether it is called so or not.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Deuce 1]

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Your generalization validates calling a magazine a clip, rather than a magazine. Just because a word is in common usage, does not make it correct. Again I have the definitive tome in my hands, and there is no magazine on an M1 Garand. You choosing to call it one, does not make it so.

I never said common usage makes it so [see my posts on "assault weapons"]. I said it fits the definition for a magazine, whether it is called so or not.

The designer of the weapon declined to name any part of the weapon a magazine. It does not have one. A war ship has a magazine, but that too has no relevance to a magazine in a rifle or pistol, except semantically.

But WTF would I know, I'm just a Remington and Glock armorer.

Thanks for sucking me into a gun thread. It's been novel.

In the competitive shooting sports we had a saying for talkers. We'd let them yammer on and on and then when they ran out of steam we'd point at their target and ask "so where are the holes?"

Cheers.

[Kennedy 0]

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In the competitive shooting sports we had a saying for talkers. We'd let them yammer on and on and then when they ran out of steam we'd point at their target and ask "so where are the holes?"

Mine are generally in the ten ring, thank you. Or the vitals of a game animal.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[PhillyKev 0]

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Glock armorer

Not familiar with the M1, so I'll take your word for it. I was just trying to be a smart ass anyway. But glock armorer? Come on. My 3 year old nephew could replace the firing pin, trigger bar, trigger spring, extractor, and recoil spring assembly in under 5 minutes

[Kennedy 0]

I'm not knocking the knowledge or skill required to gain the certificate, but the G17 has what, 33 parts?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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We've established that what you and I believe is irrelevant to thread moderation until our name turns green.

That is true, but I still like to get my two cents worth in on how I think it should be handled.

And that is just like the issue of guns and criminals: punish the guilty, not the innocent. Punish the offenders, not the law-abiding.

[PhillyKev 0]

Don't recall exactly, something like that. Got my G17 about a year ago, about a month later stripped it down to individual components, changed the trigger bar and spring, and polished all the friction points for the trigger action. My beer time fully stripping a weapon, and it took just about an hour to do it and reassemble while taking pictures of each step of the process.

[Remster 30]

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We've established that what you and I believe is irrelevant to thread moderation until our name turns green.

That is true, but I still like to get my two cents worth in on how I think it should be handled.

And that is just like the issue of guns and criminals: punish the guilty, not the innocent. Punish the offenders, not the law-abiding.

Are both of you still got your knickers in a twist over that one!

Remster

[JohnRich 4]

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the Supremes are too smart to get into that wringer before they are forced to.

Since we have two different Circuit Courts ruling in opposite directions on the same thing, it is time for them to find the guts to resolve the issue. The way they keep ducking and running from 2nd Amendment issues is cowardly, and contrary to the way they should be doing their job.

[JohnRich 4]

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>So would you be for basic firearms safety being taught in school?

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For people who want to use guns, sure. I could see that being taught as an after-school activity, especially as part of a hunting club or an outdoors club.

All kids need some kind of basic firearm safety training. Even if a kid's parent's don't own a gun, the kids are likely to run across one someday, at a friend's house, from a teenage friend's car, or wherever. In order to be safe when that day happens, they need to know something about them.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Even if a kid's parent's don't own a gun, the kids are likely to run across one someday, at a friend's house, from a teenage friend's car, or wherever. In order to be safe when that day happens, they need to know something about them.

I don't agree with that. All they need to know is: Stop, don't touch it, find an adult.

I'm perfectly happy leaving the gang bangers and thugs not knowing much about guns. While they're thrusting the gun at me with each shot aimed sideways, I'll be able to get mine in COM.

I do think it should be offered as an extra curricular activity, though.

[JohnRich 4]

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I just happen to have a 1943 M1 Garand reciever in my hot little hands as I type. There is no magazine.

Oh, a Winchester! There were fewer of those prouduced than any other, making them more valuable than the run of the mill Springfield.

You seem to be thinking of a magazine as an external, removable box containing the cartridges. That's not the only definition, just the modern one.

Bolt action rifles are considered to have an "internal magazine" or "magazine well". It's the open hole in the belly of the receiver that holds the cartridges. Just because it is integrated and not removable, doesn't mean that it is not a "magazine". It is. And since the Garand was one of the first semi-autos ever created, it retained that terminology from bolt guns.

And as further proof thereof, attached is an excerpt from the owner's manual provided by the CMP, which refers to inserting the clip into the magazine.

Thus, the "well" which holds the clip of 8 rounds, is called the magazine.

[JohnRich 4]

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The designer of the weapon declined to name any part of the weapon a magazine. It does not have one.

That's because the magazine isn't a "part" - it's just an empty space inside the receiver and stock, in which the cartridges are contained. It's like coming up with a name for a donut hole - the hole is just a hole, so there's no name for it. The Garand magazine is just an internal empty space.

Attached is the nomenclature diagram from the CMP owner's manual. Note the last entry in the box on the bottom left labeled "Important terms which are not individual parts":

"Magazine: The space inside the rifle enclosing the loaded cartridge clip."

[JohnRich 4]

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Are both of you still got your knickers in a twist over that one!

And rightfully so, I think. I lot of people were talking in a civil manner to each other, and had invested quite a bit of time explaining things, and all of a sudden poof! it was all gone...

[billvon 3,111]

>All kids need some kind of basic firearm safety training.

No more than all kids need a basic livestock safety training course. They do if they live on a farm, of course. Such decisions are best left up to the parents.

[JohnRich 4]

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All they need to know is: Stop, don't touch it, find an adult.

That's good enough for the little kids, but doesn't go far enough for teenagers.

It's like sex education. We've been burying our heads in the sand for years pretending that teens don't have sex, and not teaching them how to avoid pregnancy and disease. We shouldn't also do the same thing with guns, and pretend that curious teens aren't going to fool around with them. They will. They need to know how to be safe, if and when that day comes.

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I'm perfectly happy leaving the gang bangers and thugs not knowing much about guns. While they're thrusting the gun at me with each shot aimed sideways

They don't have to be taught how to shoot, proper aiming techniques, and the finer points of shooting. They simply need to know why a gun can still be loaded after the magazine is removed, basic shooting safety rules, and stuff like that.

I agree that the more the criminals imitate Hollywood movies, the safer their intended victims are.