moodyskydiver 0 #101 December 10, 2003 QuoteActually, I was talking to John about JFields. (John was the last one to post a reply. definitely the last one to post a reply that made sense.) <--edit My apologies,I wasn't referring to you with my last post. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #102 December 10, 2003 No worries, love. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #103 December 10, 2003 QuoteAny of you guys want to wander out into the desert to tell us we're morally flawed as we're blasting cans, you're welcome. While your there I'll be happy to teach you how to safely handle the evil things OK. I've never taken a gun safety course or been "properly trained in the use and handling of firearms" and have no plans to in the future but can someone tell me why people feel such things are even necessary? Maybe its just me but the rules seem insanely obvious, even to the totally ignorant. Similar to other simple self evident safety rules like "Don't stick your head in a blender" "Don't eat steel wool" "You can't stop a train by standing on the tracks and yelling at it" and "Don't smoke in a fireworks factory." Lets see we have this bang-stick, absolute destruction comes out one end by way of contained explosion. Therefore, we derive rules like: Don't point it at friends and family or anyone you do not specifically intend to kill. EVER. It kills bad guys dead with big holes. If you fuck up it will kill whoever is in front of it. Duh. High powered hardware misassembled or cruddy or operated in a jammed state can be deadly. Driving a car with loose lug nuts can kill you and anyone near you. So can trying to fire a gun full of crud or loose/jammed/worn parts. If the lug nuts aren't tight, don't drive the gun.... ? The gun throws things fast. Thrown things tend to bounce around some, I think they call it "ricochet". It might be wise to consider where the things the gun throws (bullets maybe?) might bounce to. In other words don't shoot rocks at close range or you may cap yourself or a friend in the nut sack. And lastly, bullets do go a long way don't they? If I can't shoot for shit and the bullet is not stopped by my intended target, it IS going to be stopped by SOMETHING. I might want to consider what that something could be before shooting. Shoot me if I'm wrong here but didn't I just sum up a gun safety course? Believe it or not I even figured this all out on my own. Without a manual. Or even an adult present to help me. So tell me why the hell we need firearm safety training? It wastes the time of the experts trying to preserve the lives of those too stupid to know not to point a might-be-loaded gun at themselves or eat steel wool. Let darwin have his way, dammit. 50% of the population has an IQ less than 100.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #104 December 10, 2003 Quote50% of the population has an IQ less than 100. And yet you gave me crap for quoting the old saying about 12 idiots in a box?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #105 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe 2nd Amendment means what the Supreme Court says it means. No less, no more. Everyone else can have an opinion, but only the Supreme Court's interpretation has force of law. Well, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals says the second amendment is about an individual right (Emerson), and the Ninth says it isn't(can't remember). I'm wondering why the supreme court doesn't take an appeal and clear up the matter [and now it seems you think the sun shines from the justices collective backsides]. No, I don't think that. What I stated was just a fact. Facts have no value judgement attached.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #106 December 10, 2003 QuoteEveryone got upset when I deleted the last long gun thread, so this is the one and only warning. I just deleted a post on here that was a personal attack; it will be the entire thread next time. I believe the proper response should be to delete the offensive post, and lock-out the messenger, but not to delete the entire thread. Thanks for your monitoring and your action in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #107 December 10, 2003 > Driving a car with loose lug nuts can kill you and anyone near you. > So can trying to fire a gun full of crud or loose/jammed/worn parts. > If the lug nuts aren't tight, don't drive the gun.... ? And what if you don't know where the lug nuts are? I suppose you could ask. How does one check if they're really tight? Get your friends and a wrench with a long handle and tighten them as much as you can? And how about the fan belts, or the transmission belts, or the brake line pressure? How do you check all of those before you drive the car away? It sure sounds like it would be dumb to drive with bad brake line pressure. How do you check that? Have _you_ ever bothered to check that? The point here is that you need education to be able to be smart about _anything._ I've known people who carried guns that believed that if the clip was ejected the gun was guaranteed to be unloaded. I mean, that's just common sense, right? You take out the bullet holder and there are no more bullets in the gun. Is he a safe gun user, or would he need a little education to be a safe gun user? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #108 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuote50% of the population has an IQ less than 100. And yet you gave me crap for quoting the old saying about 12 idiots in a box? Do you define "idiot" as anyone with an IQ below 100?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #109 December 10, 2003 QuoteThe 2nd Amendment means what the Supreme Court says it means. No less, no more. Everyone else can have an opinion, but only the Supreme Court's interpretation has force of law. QuoteNo, I don't think that. What I stated was just a fact. Facts have no value judgement attached. Theirs is the only opinion with clout? Pres GW and Ashcroft have no say? Each and every other court judge don't make decisions affecting lives every day? Besides, the Supreme Court has not made a clear stand on the issues facing the second amendment. Does that mean it doesn't mean anything? Lower courts have, but they are in disagreement. Don't you think it is a good time to take a case when the next highest level is treating citizens differently?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #110 December 10, 2003 QuoteThe point here is that you need education to be able to be smart about _anything._ I've known people who carried guns that believed that if the clip was ejected the gun was guaranteed to be unloaded. I mean, that's just common sense, right? You take out the bullet holder and there are no more bullets in the gun. Is he a safe gun user, or would he need a little education to be a safe gun user? Another reason so many advocate basic firearms safety be taught in school. Are you for that? And no, he is certainly not a safe gun user. Any one who has ever cycled the action in a semi-auto pistol should realize there can still be one cartridge in the chamber, separate from the magazine. Every firearms is loaded until you look into the chamber and determine otherwise. [it's catridge, not bullet; and it's a magazine, not a clip]witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #111 December 10, 2003 QuoteDo you define "idiot" as anyone with an IQ below 100? No, but you were using that as a reason why darwin awards are is still presented. My point stands that common sense is not common anymore and intellectual curiosity is crushed too often. I would guess 50-80% of the population is uneducated and apathetic about any given issue.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #112 December 10, 2003 Quoteknown people who carried guns that believed that if the clip was ejected the gun was guaranteed to be unloaded. That would be really naive, since you can't eject a clip anyway. Now if you're talking about a magazine... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #113 December 10, 2003 We've established that what you and I believe is irrelevant to thread moderation until our name turns green. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #114 December 10, 2003 FINALLY, I beat you the post on something!! witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #115 December 10, 2003 QuoteFINALLY, I beat you the post on something!! Damn...missed that. I have to eat lunch some time!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #116 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe 2nd Amendment means what the Supreme Court says it means. No less, no more. Everyone else can have an opinion, but only the Supreme Court's interpretation has force of law. QuoteNo, I don't think that. What I stated was just a fact. Facts have no value judgement attached. Theirs is the only opinion with clout? Pres GW and Ashcroft have no say? ---------------------------------------------- Nope - Justice Department decisions are subject to being overruled by the Supremes. ------------------------------------------------- Each and every other court judge don't make decisions affecting lives every day? ------------------------------------------------ They do, but they are all subject to being overturned by the Supremes. ------------------------------------------------ Besides, the Supreme Court has not made a clear stand on the issues facing the second amendment. Does that mean it doesn't mean anything? Lower courts have, but they are in disagreement. Don't you think it is a good time to take a case when the next highest level is treating citizens differently? Indeed it is, but the Supremes are too smart to get into that wringer before they are forced to.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #117 December 10, 2003 Don't say theirs is the only one with clout. They are just capable of overruling the others. And they are never "forced to." They choose what cases they will hear, remember?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #118 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteknown people who carried guns that believed that if the clip was ejected the gun was guaranteed to be unloaded. That would be really naive, since you can't eject a clip anyway. Now if you're talking about a magazine... Actually, you guys are both wrong. One example is the clip for an M1 Garand. After a couple million GI's came home after using the weapon, common usage for any bullet holding device was "clip", which was correct for the Garand, but incorrect for a 1911. It has always been OK by me that those men made that little error. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #119 December 10, 2003 >That would be really naive, since you can't eject a clip anyway. clip n 1: a metal frame or container holding cartridges; can be inserted into an automatic gun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #120 December 10, 2003 But there aren't too many pistols that use clips in high circulation today, are there? Generally when someone says clip they mean magazine. For billvon, in firearms like the M1, the clip is inserted into a magazine. THe magazine is fixed inside the rifle. A magazine is inserted in the magazine well, and ejected when not needed.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #121 December 10, 2003 Good point, you can eject a clip, but even with the M1, it has a fixed magazine, the clip is used to load the magazine. It's still not a "bullet holder", it's what's used to load the bullet holder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #122 December 10, 2003 damn...you beat me again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #123 December 10, 2003 Quote>That would be really naive, since you can't eject a clip anyway. clip n 1: a metal frame or container holding cartridges; can be inserted into an automatic gun You can't learn everything from books and dictionaries. If you try inserting a clip into my automatic gun, or any automatic gun I've ever fired, it ain't gonna work. A clip is inserted into a magazine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #124 December 10, 2003 QuoteDon't say theirs is the only one with clout. They are just capable of overruling the others. And they are never "forced to." They choose what cases they will hear, remember? Hmm. Having the power to overrule all others, but no one has the power to overrule them isn't "clout"? Your definition of "clout" is not the same as mine. As far as choosing to enter a minefield, well, sometimes it just has to be done. I shall not hold my breath.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #125 December 10, 2003 QuoteBut there aren't too many pistols that use clips in high circulation today, are there? Generally when someone says clip they mean magazine. For billvon, in firearms like the M1, the clip is inserted into a magazine. THe magazine is fixed inside the rifle. A magazine is inserted in the magazine well, and ejected when not needed. Revolvers chambered for auto cartridges use clips. Full and half moon. But you are right, not many. A clip holds the bullets so they can be inserted into the magazine. So it technically is a "bullet holder". I have ammo loaded onto stripper clips for my AR15's. Attach the "spoon" to the magazine, insert stripper clip into spoon and push bullets into mag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
