Guns & Political Correctness

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Well, there is one solution. Let's wave our magic wand and make guns everywhere disappear. There would be no more firearms murders, firearms suicides, or firearms accidents.

Of course, I'd wager homicide numbers would go up, suicides would be unaffected, but hey, at least they're not committed with those evil little firearms.

Yes, some people are naive enough to believe that it would actually be possible to confiscate all firearms, and then the problems would disappear.

Well, they've tried it in England, banning all handguns and semi-auto long guns, and confiscating them from all law-abiding people. The problem is, the criminals don't comply, and gun crime in England has since risen dramatically.

And studies have shown that suicide rates remain the same. If depressed people don't have a gun to kill themselves with, they find other means to do themselves in.

So nothing really changes, or things can get even worse.

So much for magic wands!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Yawn ... did you say something? I wasn't listening.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Yawn ... did you say something? I wasn't listening.

You sound like most anti-gun people I've talked to.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Maybe so-called "smart-gun" technology should focus on the shooter not being able to shoot himself whether on purpose or not. Maybe that would make those who wanna check out work a little harder...

I don't know how you would get an inanimate object to "know" that, while still functioning perfectly when you need it for self defense against a criminal.

But even if you could, it wouldn't change anything. People who choose guns as their tool for suicide, are the ones who are really serious about ending their life. And if they're that serious, they'll find a way to defeat the gun technology, or just use some other method.

So in the end, you would just have guns which are less reliable at providing self defense, and you would end up with even more people killed, due to gun malfunctions when they were needed to defend against criminal attack.

[mnischalke 0]

Quote

"the number of firearm-related deaths in 1991 exceeded the number of motor-vehicle-related deaths in 7 states and Washington, DC."

Another way of saying it is this: "In 43 states, auto accidents killed more people than guns." But that just doesn't make guns sound as bad as the contrived phrasing...

That's just complete smokescreening. It's the apples, plums and space aliens argument. To not be misleading it would need to read "In 1991, the nationwide-total number of firearms-related deaths was *14%* of the total number of motor-vehicle related deaths." Somebody just fancied themself terribly witty and cute with that one.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Quote

"smart-gun" technology

So in the end, you would just have guns which are less reliable at providing self defense, and you would end up with even more people killed, due to gun malfunctions when they were needed to defend against criminal attack.

As far as I'm concerned, if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for cops and the military. Once they adopt this "cutting edge" technology I'll look into it for myself.

Cops have firearms for self defense, right? Well that's what mine are for as well. When they switch, I will.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Not everybody dies when they OD on drugs, not everybody dies when they slit their wrists. But most people will die when they put a gun to their head and pull the trigger.

People who choose other means often aren't really serious about killing themselves, and are really only "crying for help", to get attention for their needs.

Those who choose to commit suicide with guns, are really serious, because they know that guns are effective. And when they're that serious about suicide, if they don't have a gun, they'll just use some other method to accomplish their ends.

As you can see from this table, below, there are several other methods that rank right up there with guns for lethality.

Suicide Method Lethality:


Shooting                          85%

Hanging                           80%

Carbon Monoxide                   77%

Drowning                          75%

Leaping                           42%

Poisoning, other than drugs       15%

Gas, other than CO                13%

Drugs                             12%

Cutting/Stabbing                   5%

Overall                           26%


From Kleck G, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, Table 6.2.

[mnischalke 0]

sorry, should have noted I was being sarcastic about the so-called "smart-guns"

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Kennedy 0]

Maybe I just got "lucky" to come across live ones. They were definitely messy. Postscripts: one eventually died hours later in the hospital, the other used a towel in the bathroom about three weeks later. I'd say he qualifies as determined.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Yawn ... did you say something? I wasn't listening.

Yes, that is obvious, because you keep making the same mistakes, despite all the information we provide to the contrary.

What we can imply of you from this response is: "Don't confuse me with facts - I've already made up my mind!"

Besides, what are you still doing here? In message #194 just 10 minutes earlier, you said:

"Hey continue on with your debate folks, it's just not worth my time."

You sure like to hang around and throw in your valueless one-liners, for someone who says it is "not worth my time."

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

That's just complete smokescreening. It's the apples, plums and space aliens argument. To not be misleading it would need to read "In 1991, the nationwide-total number of firearms-related deaths was *14%* of the total number of motor-vehicle related deaths." Somebody just fancied themself terribly witty and cute with that one.

Yep, that's why I said it had an anti-gun flavor to it, with contrived statistics to make guns look unfavorable. And such twisting of facts betrays their supposedly objective "study". That's the nature of anti-gun propaganda - it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, or in this case, anti-gun propaganda dressed up like a medical study.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

That's the nature of anti-gun propaganda - it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, or in this case, anti-gun propaganda dressed up like a medical study.

[thoughtful voice] Now where have I seen that before?

[cough] CDC [/cough]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Another example of extreme weapons phobia by school administrators:

Teen expelled for butter knife in pickup

A 16-year-old Texas boy was expelled from High School after school officials found a bread knife in the back of his pickup truck, parked at the school. School policy prohibits students from bringing weapons onto school grounds. Even though the principal admits that the teen is "an exemplary student", he will be placed in the County Juvenile Justice Alternative Education Program, under the expulsion order. The bread knife had fallen out during a weeekend move of his grandmother's belongings using the truck.

Newspaper Story

[captainpooby 0]

Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud

[Kennedy 0]

OK that's just absolutely ridiculous. If a butter knife is a weapon, then so is a pen, pencil, ruler, and his truck that it fell out of. How do you define weapon?!? Anything that can hurt someone if misused? What about the school team's baseball bats? The desks? The bike racks?

Come on, people.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

If a butter knife is a weapon, then so is a pen, pencil, ruler...

And even a finger, pointed at someone:

School bans playing cops and robbers

Barstow, California, school officials have banned students from playing "cops and robbers" on school grounds. A temporary ban was set on the game, in which kids make imaginary guns out of their fingers and pretend to be law officers and criminals, while school officials decide if it is dangerous. One parent has removed his 9-year-old son from the school after the Principal threatened to expel the third-grader if the boy did not stop playing the game.

News Story Here

I don't know how my generation ever survived childhood, with all the games of "cops & robbers" and "cowboys & indians" that we played. I never knew my life was in such serious jeopardy by pointing my finger and yelling "Bang!"

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud

And even college bureaucrats are affected by this "retarded maturity":

Order to Remove Rifle Riles OU Professor

Professor Patrick Washburn, age 60, of Ohio University, has his office decorated with fishing gear, and an 1878 rifle which his great-grandfather used in the Union Army.

But someone complained, saying that the school's workplace violence policy forbids display of the rifle, and campus police ordered him to remove the rifle.

An Ohio University spokeswoman said concerns about workplace violence at universities should be taken seriously in the wake of incidents such as the shootings at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia.

News Story Here

Follow-up story:

Hostile Learning Environment

For 15 years, professor Washburn has displayed an antique rifle on the wall of his office at Ohio University. The firearm is a family heirloom passed down from his great-grandfather.

Campus police ordered him to remove the 1878 single shot rifle, after complaints from several people that they felt "threatened" by the rifle.

The professor has responded by formally requesting that the school cannon, fired when the college football team scores a touchdown, be removed from the campus in accordance with the same rules used against his antique rifle. The cannon is a functioning replica of an 1841 Howitzer.

The school has filed a formal "Unacceptable Behavioral Incident Report Form" against its own professor. Mr. Washburn points out, in displaying his gun he "didn't behave in any fashion." The gun just sat there.

Furthermore, a school play scheduled for the spring may have to be altered, due to its depictions of fight scenes, archery may be banned from physical education classes, and the display of Indo-Asian spears in the library may have to be removed.

Source: www.washingtontimes.com

[mnischalke 0]

Damn! Earlier I was thinking, "Friday afternoon and not one gun thread, gotta change that!" Thanks for bringing it back up...

Now for some good news:

Quote

Daisy reaches settlement with CPSP
Daisy and the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) have reached a settlement in the 2001 administrative action brought upon Daisy regarding the PowerLine models 856 and 880 adult high-velocity airguns.

In their lawsuit, the CPSC had maintained that, if a person suspected that these airguns were unloaded, they might engage in unsafe behavior such as discharging the airgun in an unsafe manner or at another person. Daisy has continued to maintain these products have no defect and do not pose an undue danger when properly used and when basic gun-safety rules are adhered to.

In his statement, Hal Stratton, CPSC Chairman wrote, “Based upon the evidence adduced in the case, I am not at all sure the CPSC complaint counsel would prevail on the merits of the case.” He also commented on previous CPSC evaluations, stating, “In addition, these investigations showed that the air guns met existing voluntary standards. The Commission has never found that air rifles, or any model of air rifle, constitute a substantial product hazard.”

At the core of the settlement is production of materials that will further educate purchasers and users of these products of the appropriate age use recommendation and dangers associated with misuse or careless use of these products. In the near future, Daisy will print the “Take Aim at Safety” message on the package of every Daisy and PowerLine rifle. Additional warnings will be tape wrapped around the packages of PowerLine 880 and 856 rifles. There will also be an additional warning on the product itself. Further, Daisy will provide the 10 shooting-safety rules and information about free shooting education programs for display in stores.

“This case remains, however, one that should never have been brought and a case that should have been settled much earlier,” said Commissioner Mary Sheila Gall. “The Commission’s actions have done serious and unjustified damage to the reputation and business prospects of a company whose product represents no substantial product hazard.

“The Commission must rely on individual and parental responsibility in limiting the adverse consequences of BB gun use,” Gall continued. “When tragedies happen with reasonably safe products such as the (PowerLine) Models 856 and 880 air rifles, they result from the irresponsibility of the user, or poor parental and caregiver judgment, not the inherent nature of the instrument.”

Daisy has a long history of promoting shooting safety education. Daisy implemented its “Take Aim at Safety” marketing campaign two years ago, in recognition of statistical evidence that shooting safety education prevents injuries.

The complete settlement and statements by three CPSC commissioners is available at www.cpsc.gov.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[mnischalke 0]

Quote

The school has filed a formal "Unacceptable Behavioral Incident Report Form" against its own professor. Mr. Washburn points out, in displaying his gun he "didn't behave in any fashion." The gun just sat there.

Bwwwaaahahaaahahaa Smartass...

nanny nanny poooooooo

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.

I guess in your mind, the mature thing to do is to throw insults at anyone who may have a different view other than your own. You know, I used to think that skydivers were cool people. But I was obviously mistaken. There are still plenty of <> out there.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Professor Patrick Washburn, age 60, of Ohio University, has his office decorated with fishing gear, and an 1878 rifle which his great-grandfather used in the Union Army.

Somebody please explain to me how the man used an 1878 rifle in a war than ended in 1865.

I love it when journalists get their facts straight.
.
.
.
[ps - I am now officially an addict ]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

But someone complained, saying that the school's workplace violence policy forbids display of the rifle, and campus police ordered him to remove the rifle.

Someone also please explain how displaying an antique constitutes violence.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

You know, I used to think that skydivers were cool people. But I was obviously mistaken. There are still plenty of <> out there.

Do an inordinate number of these <> live in Canada?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[captainpooby 0]

Quote

Quote

Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.

I guess in your mind, the mature thing to do is to throw insults at anyone who may have a different view other than your own. You know, I used to think that skydivers were cool people. But I was obviously mistaken. There are still plenty of <> out there.

I did not throw an insult at anyone. I merely posted a quote by Freud.
Perhaps you were not mature enough to see that.
Freud said it, not me. I merely pointed out his opinion.

[captainpooby 0]

Here's an interesting comparison:

In 2000 there were:
- 4,303,762 registered motorcycles and mopeds in the US (15.3 per 1,000 people).
- Approx 250,000,000 firearms in the US (865 per 1,000 people).

And there were:
- 2,618 fatal motorcycle accidents
- 776 fatal firearm accidents

Which means the accidental death rate is:
Motorcycles = 1 accidental motorcycle death per 1,644 motorcycles
Firearms = 1 accidental firearm death per 322,164 firearms

So therefore.... the death rate from motorcyle accidents is nearly 200 times the death rate from firearm accidents.

"Motorcycles are far too dangerous for the general public!"


Oh but that doesn't take into account the TOTAL number of deaths from firearms! Well, okay let's look at that:

28,663 = Total firearm deaths (1 per 8,722 firearms)
2,618 = Total motorcycle deaths (1 per 1,644 motorcycles)

Which means the TOTAL death rate is:
Motorcycles = 1 motorcycle-related death per 1,644 motorcycles
Firearms = 1 firearm-related death per 8,722 firearms

So therefore... the death rate from motocycle accidents is still over FIVE times that from ALL types of firearm-related deaths.


"Nobody needs a motorcycle! They're too dangerous! Guns Are Safer!"


This info taken from my friend "The_Macallan" on another board.