A victory for our constitution

[dbattman 0]

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Prayer is not prohibited in public schools. Any group of students can get together and say prayers if they are so inclined.

Good luck convincing administrators across the country of that little fact. A friend was suspended and threatened with expulsion because he would not stop discussing the bible in study hall with another student who was interested in learning and was asking questions.

No luck is necessary. I'd hate to be your friend's school administrator. They are in a lot of trouble.

From the Department of Education guidelines

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Prayer During Noninstructional Time
Students may pray when not engaged in school activities or instruction, subject to the same rules designed to prevent material disruption of the educational program that are applied to other privately initiated expressive activities. Among other things, students may read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, and pray or study religious materials with fellow students during recess, the lunch hour, or other noninstructional time to the same extent that they may engage in nonreligious activities. While school authorities may impose rules of order and pedagogical restrictions on student activities, they may not discriminate against student prayer or religious speech in applying such rules and restrictions.

Other interesting sites:

Good overview site of the whole thing

Tinker v Des Moines, 1969 “students do not shed their constitutional rights when they enter the school house gate.”

Engle V. Vitale Another landmark case

[Kennedy 0]

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The Texas legal system has very well documented flaws that cast significant doubt on the validity of the verdict in many of these cases.

Riddle me this: how can one man say twelve people will always come to the best decision in one thread, and then knock the system where twelve people decide guilt or non-guilt?

(I've never seen an innocent person anywhere in a courthouse)

ps - I'm referring to you in the S.659 thread and here.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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No luck is necessary. I'd hate to be your friend's school administrator. They are in a lot of trouble.

Tell that to the government and bureaucracy that backed him up 100%.

They decided he was being disruptive. (even though no students in the room thought so)

I also recall accounts of administrators refusing school access to a Christian group, even while allowing non-religious groups to use school facilities.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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And in another state, a student was actually expelled for saying the word "gay". At the time, the student was accurately describing the sexuality of his lesbian mother.

I do not know of any school with a policy like your friends'.

I would write a reply here, but you answered yourself.

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What one school administrator thinks the rules are, and what the rules actually say are two entirely different things.

If it were actually policy, it could be challenged and easily reversed.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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In most jurisdictions the appeal is based on points of law and process, not of points of fact. As the Supreme Court has previously ruled, actual innocence is not grounds for granting an appeal.

[sarcasm] But the prosecutor is just doing their job, and everyone is getting their day in court. Isn't that what's important? That everbody gets their day, and that twelve idiots, I mean peers, decide? [/sarcasm]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[gmanpilot 0]

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We have done exhaustive studies ......We find that the statistically significant attributes of a successful college engineering student are:........not living in a frat house if male

You needed an exhaustive study to figure that out? I'll bet they were fun studies though.....

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[dbattman 0]

Well Ken, I don't know what else to tell you. Managers don't always follow their guidelines and policies in business either. It just depends on you, then. Will you do what you are allowed and entitled to do or cower because some administrator with a hair in his butt might say something?

[lummy 4]

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What I can't figure out is why these anti-prayer, anti-religious symbols people are such wimps. I can honestly say that I have never walked past a menorrah on a town square and become offended. Nor does it upset me in the slightest when I see someone wearing a Yamika (sp?).

Chris, Try n think of it this way, would you get upset if the public schools were teaching islam, as in the thread about the school in Byron California? ( source

Religion (and politics for that matter) is such an emotional subject and people tend to have very strong opinions about it. In the case I mentioned previous, it's pissing people off on both fronts due to the current world climate. Naturally, people are going to get pissed off and not want their children being taught such controversial issues and try to do something about it.

Unless you provide equal recognition for all religions, you're gonna piss someone off. The only other option would be to provide no recognition for any religion.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[kallend 2,146]

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In most jurisdictions the appeal is based on points of law and process, not of points of fact. As the Supreme Court has previously ruled, actual innocence is not grounds for granting an appeal.

[sarcasm] But the prosecutor is just doing their job, and everyone is getting their day in court. Isn't that what's important? That everbody gets their day, and that twelve idiots, I mean peers, decide? [/sarcasm]

The identified flaws in Illinois have nothing to do with the juries. They have to do with the process itself, rules of evidence, lying prosecutors, police getting evidence by torture, etc. On the whole I believe the juries do as good a job as can be expected under the suboptimal circumstances.

But since the circumstances are suboptimal, no punishment should be irreversible. Even our corrupt Republican ex-governor came to that concusion.

However, GWB blithley sent people to their deaths proclaiming that Texas had no flaws in its process.

Still no-one has named anyone that signed more death warrants than GWB, nor any administration under whose watch more constitutional protections were stripped from citizens. I guess it's a hard question.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.