Cincinnati PD - death after arrest

[Kennedy 0]

Something along what Luv2 just said?

I just had a conversation with some hick who is of the opinion that if you attack a cop you deserve to die. So yeah, I guess I was just recognizing there are all opinions out there.....

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not doing as your told will get you dead, boy

....especially ridiculous ones.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[AggieDave 6]

You know whats wrong, though? The fact that a handful of very outspoken liberals (not here, but around the country) were trying to play the race card in this. White cops, black man getting hit with night sticks. When the facts are actually out in the open, everything was justified.

I wonder what would happen if the races were reversed in this situation. A 350lbs white guy dies after being taken into arrest by some black officers.

Think it would have made more then a small blip on the national media radar?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Luv2Fall 0]

In the case, as found in the below link, the officer should have had her head served on a platter. Let everyone draw their own conclusions. As for the death in Cincinnati, Dawrin reared his head.

http://www.ardmoreite.com/stories/103103/new_trooper.shtml

[bodypilot90 0]

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You know whats wrong, though? The fact that a handful of very outspoken liberals (not here, but around the country) were trying to play the race card in this. White cops, black man getting hit with night sticks. When the facts are actually out in the open, everything was justified.

a local black owned tv news showed some very "skilled" editing when they played the video. You never see the druggie hit the cops. All they played was the cops hitting him. And then the local NAACP guy saying what a shame it was.

[andrewstewart 0]

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You know whats wrong, though? The fact that a handful of very outspoken liberals (not here, but around the country) were trying to play the race card in this. White cops, black man getting hit with night sticks. When the facts are actually out in the open, everything was justified.

I wonder what would happen if the races were reversed in this situation. A 350lbs white guy dies after being taken into arrest by some black officers.

Think it would have made more then a small blip on the national media radar?

Oh, those "outspoken liberals" and their "race card" are an abomination aren't they?

But how about your gross over-simplification of the situation and your ignorance of the facts?

- Jones was the EIGHTEENTH black man to be killed by the police in Cincinnati since 1995.

- The City of Cincinnati have had to pay out over three million dollars in settlements to the estates of two black men shot by Cincinnati police in incidents in 1999 and 2001. Link:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/10/29/timtom.html

[PhillyKev 0]

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But how about your gross over-simplification of the situation and your ignorance of the facts?

- Jones was the EIGHTEENTH black man to be killed by the police in Cincinnati since 1995.

- The City of Cincinnati have had to pay out over three million dollars in settlements to the estates of two black men shot by Cincinnati police in incidents in 1999 and 2001.

Those statements are a confusion of the situation and unrelated to the facts. I have no idea what the circumstances behind the previous 17 incidences were, or the facts behind the settlements. What I do know is, I saw the video and the guy was hit in his legs and lower torso in an effort to stop him. The police were careful not to hit his head, and his cause of death, last I heard, was unknown. But it might have something to do with his enlarged heart and the dust and coke coursing through his veins.

BTW, I'm an outspoken liberal. But I don't try to distort facts or bring up unrelated issues to make a point about a specific event.

[andrewstewart 0]

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But how about your gross over-simplification of the situation and your ignorance of the facts?

- Jones was the EIGHTEENTH black man to be killed by the police in Cincinnati since 1995.

- The City of Cincinnati have had to pay out over three million dollars in settlements to the estates of two black men shot by Cincinnati police in incidents in 1999 and 2001.

Those statements are a confusion of the situation and unrelated to the facts. I have no idea what the circumstances behind the previous 17 incidences were, or the facts behind the settlements. What I do know is, I saw the video and the guy was hit in his legs and lower torso in an effort to stop him. The police were careful not to hit his head, and his cause of death, last I heard, was unknown. But it might have something to do with his enlarged heart and the dust and coke coursing through his veins.

BTW, I'm an outspoken liberal. But I don't try to distort facts or bring up unrelated issues to make a point about a specific event.

How did I distort the facts or bring in unrelated issues? If a black man is killed by police, is it not relevant to investigate prior occurances of that event?

[AggieDave 6]

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BTW, I'm an outspoken liberal. But I don't try to distort facts or bring up unrelated issues to make a point about a specific event.

And that makes you a very rational person.


re: Andrewstewart

This discussion is about this incident, the past not withstanding. If there wasn't video proof of this man assaulting officers, resisting arrest AND having been hopped out on various drugs (that have been shown in the past to increase the risk of very aggressive behavior), then I would also be crying foul. However, the force the police used was quite justified.

Out of curiosity, what would you do if a 350lbs man was assaulting you? Ask nicely for him to stop or do everything in your power to bring an end to the situation? Personally, I think the officers involved did a great job in stopping the attack, and bringing this man under control. Once he was on the ground, he didn't stop resisting arrest, either.

I also stand by that if it would have been a white man, this wouldn't have even made more the a slight blip on the media's radar. Also, the outspoken liberals wouldn't have cried foul, however, there is a group of people in the US that no matter the situation, if the race card can be played and elevated in the media, they will go out of their way to accomplish that.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AndyMan 7]

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BTW, I'm an outspoken liberal. But I don't try to distort facts or bring up unrelated issues to make a point about a specific event.

You think you're liberal

There is nothing being distored here, nor is the cause of death uncertain. The coroner clearly reported the the cause of death was the beating by police.

Also, putting this one death into the frame of reference of a history of violence does little to distort facts. Indeed, it is required reading for someone trying to understand what happened.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AggieDave 6]

Here ya go, this is what the coroner said.

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Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones (search), 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol (search) in his blood.

He said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a decision does not mean police used "excessive force." The coroner said he had to rule the death a homicide because it did not fall under the other categories: accident, suicide or natural

If you're going to state something, state the FULL something.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[andrewstewart 0]

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This discussion is about this incident, the past not withstanding.

How can you say that the past is irrelevant? I suppose ignorance and irrelevance are synonymous in your mind.

[AggieDave 6]

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I suppose ignorance and irrelevance are synonymous in your mind.

I will kindly disregard this personal attack against my intellegence and view it as you loosing your temper. Get ahold of your emotions and join the discussion with constructive debatable facts.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[andrewstewart 0]

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Here ya go, this is what the coroner said.

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Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones (search), 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol (search) in his blood.

He said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a decision does not mean police used "excessive force." The coroner said he had to rule the death a homicide because it did not fall under the other categories: accident, suicide or natural

If you're going to state something, state the FULL something.

Yeah, but he is also dead because he was beaten with batons for 10 minutes.

[turtlespeed 226]

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The coroner clearly reported the the cause of death was the beating by police.

_Am

No, he wrote on the death certificate that it was homicide. He later confirmed in an interview that he had no other choice, the only options he has at his disposal are 1) Accidental Death, 2) Natural Causes, 3) Suicide, and 4) Homicide.

So. . . If you lie down and are breathing fast and labored in the parking lot area of a fast food restraunt, would you want someone to see if you were ok? I know I would. I most certainly would not punch them in the face for doing so.

Not to mention that if I did punch someone in the face, it wouldn't be a cop. If I did, common sense tells me that I would be arrested.

Com'on, black, white, green, yellow, fuscia, orange, who the hell cares. If I'm a cop, and you hit me, you are going to jail, one way or another, you are going!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[AggieDave 6]

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Yeah, but he is also dead because he was beaten with batons for 10 minutes.

Have you ever been formally trained in baton usage?

The strikes they were using were designed NOT to inflict actual substantal damage. They are designed to lightly hurt, to keep an agressor at bay. The swings look violoent, but with the grips and type of swings they were using are used for the specific purpose of keeping an attack down/away so they can be brought into custody.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Faber 0]

i saw that in the tv yesterday(talking DK news tv),it looks like the officers kind of over reacted,some times i cant blame them,but this is just too far...

Lucky me i dont have their job...

ps beating him up like that were no reason,but i also saw the punch he gave the officer,i do understand why they tryed to give him a lesson,just "forgot" to stop in time

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[PhillyKev 0]

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You think you're liberal

Yes, believe it or not, you can be pro-gun and still be liberal. You can also make judgments about specific events based on their own merits without pulling in irrelevant, unrelated data and still be liberal.

I believe in gay rights, civil rights, social assistance, free medicine, legalized drugs, and am pro-choice. Just because I own a gun to protect myself, and think people on dust and coke fighting with the police will most likely get hurt in the process doesn't mean I'm not liberal. It means I'm not radical.

[Michele 1]

Something which seems to be forgotten here, is that once an officer goes down with a bad guy, it becomes a lethal force situation. Why? Because the officer's gun is within easy reach of both the cop and the bad guy.

Now, I am not positive about this, but it would seem to me that there was a time or two in this situation where the cops were in a serious struggle, and that the officer's weapon was within easy reach of the suspect. This justifies lethal force, iirc, and the fact that it wasn't used is commendable.

It is a pity that the suspect died. A waste of life. Really shitty. But when you combine methanol (embalming fluid), PCP, and other things, the results are unpredictable, and the officers did what they needed to to go home.

As for the race card, iirc, one of the officers was black. I don't think any of the officers sat there and thought - "oh, a black guy. Let's beat the fuck outta him and kill his ass. Whaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooooo!". I think perhaps the thoughts were more along the line of "holy shit, this guy's dusted, serious danger here, what to do to protect myself and my fellow officers???".

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[PhillyKev 0]

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i saw that in the tv yesterday(talking DK news tv),it looks like the officers kind of over reacted,some times i cant blame them,but this is just too far...

Lucky me i dont have their job...

ps beating him up like that were no reason,but i also saw the punch he gave the officer,i do understand why they tryed to give him a lesson,just "forgot" to stop in time

I'm wondering what video you saw, because the one I saw, they hit him with batons until he stopped fighting back, then they took him into custody. What were they supposed to do? Run away?

[Slappie 9]

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Com'on, black, white, green, yellow, fuscia, orange, who the hell cares. If I'm a cop, and you hit me, you are going to jail, one way or another, you are going!

Buddy of mine is an HPD Officer in this fine city, Houston Texas his favorite line is "You may beat the rap, but your not beating the ride" basically meaning, if he wants to take you to jail your going one way or another. End of story. The man assulted a PO the PO's acted in a manner that was condusive to subdue a violent non-reactive perp. What the officers did was in no way out of control beating "a la King" was a very unfortunate event this person died. He did not die at the hands of the officers. They may have exagerated a condition that neither party knew about.

I'm also very sorry they've made the front of every media outlet in the world. Those guys have a tough enough road to hoe as it is.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[Faber 0]

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I'm wondering what video you saw, because the one I saw, they hit him with batons until he stopped fighting back, then they took him into custody. What were they supposed to do? Run away?

first a from inside the building(short)no fight.
then outside in the front of the car.he punch the officer in the face,which starts it all,it takes over hand as they keep hitting him,but he keeps struggeling and will not calm down.the clip stops were you just see the other police car arrives. at that point the arrestede still fights whith the cops.

what happend after that i dont know.

i dont think violence helps anything,but i do understand the guys and gals putting their lifes in the line for our safty.

If it HAS somthing to do whith his collur then they shouldnt be officers.(which i hope aint the case)..

ps at 1 point the guy grap the officers "weappon" the officer dont even has the power to get it back...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[andrewstewart 0]

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I suppose ignorance and irrelevance are synonymous in your mind.

I will kindly disregard this personal attack against my intellegence and view it as you loosing your temper. Get ahold of your emotions and join the discussion with constructive debatable facts.

Mmmm... smell that passive aggression.

I will reiterate my point because you failed to grasp it. You have said that past events are irrelevant in this case (your post #33). To my mind, you are therefore choosing to be ignorant of the facts.

The prior events in Cincinnati where black men have been killed by Cincinnati police are not irrelevant to this case, nor are the millions of dollars that the City of Cincinnati have paid out in compensation for those cases.

[andrewstewart 0]

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The strikes they were using were designed NOT to inflict actual substantal damage. They are designed to lightly hurt

You've got to be kidding.

If you're hit with a metal baton it will only "lightly hurt" ? I'll get hold of a metal baton if you'd like to try it.

[Slappie 9]

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I suppose ignorance and irrelevance are synonymous in your mind.

I will kindly disregard this personal attack against my intellegence and view it as you loosing your temper. Get ahold of your emotions and join the discussion with constructive debatable facts.

Mmmm... smell that passive aggression.

I will reiterate my point because you failed to grasp it. You have said that past events are irrelevant in this case (your post #33). To my mind, you are therefore choosing to be ignorant of the facts.

The prior events in Cincinnati where black men have been killed by Cincinnati police are not irrelevant to this case, nor are the millions of dollars that the City of Cincinnati have paid out in compensation for those cases.

So your saying this was racially motivated? Your pointing to the history of the Cinci PD and saying they've done it before, so this must just be another case of racially motivated agression on the part of the Cinci PD?

I'm sorry but your wrong in this case. This was and is a case of the officers doing their job to control a very violent, out of control situation. Tragicly a man dies for reasons not reconisable by the officers at the time.

My apologies to the grammar and spelling police..

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[Slappie 9]

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The strikes they were using were designed NOT to inflict actual substantal damage. They are designed to lightly hurt

You've got to be kidding.

If you're hit with a metal baton it will only "lightly hurt" ? I'll get hold of a metal baton if you'd like to try it.

Now whos the one getting alittle emotional about this conversation? hmm Andrew step away from the keyboard and back away from the debate.. you've obvisouly lost the battle to remain objective about the whole conversation. Just take a break dude...

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."