champu 1 #26 January 20, 2004 QuoteOk, so could it be said that you believe in "Fate, as long as you don't screw it up"? That's kind of my stance, but it scares the shit out of me. What if you DO have someone you're meant to be with, but you do something wrong and screw it up? What then? Ah, that is certainly a scary thought. But it's pretty pointless to believe you can "screw up your fate." You could go on endlessly saying "oh well I was actually fated to screw up that last fate I had... NOW I'm on the right path." I think there might be something to the whole fate thing in a mechanist sense. Sure you make "choices" day to day (what you're going to have for lunch, light turns yellow and you could either stop or go through the light, which job to take out of school) but at the end of the day how many actual choices did you make? If you lived the exact same day over again without knowing it would you really do anything different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #27 January 20, 2004 QuoteJust a bad joke about the conversation between you and kelel.... LMFAO!!! No offense, DD, nothing about you, I just love the way lawrocket puts things sometimes . . . That dry sense of humor always gets me! Anyway, you guys have some really good thoughts on this subject, and I for one am thoroughly enjoying this thread. And yes, DiverDriver, I was mocking you. But in a good way. I thought your post was very witty. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #28 January 20, 2004 I have to say all of the above.... We are all given chances to make decisions, and the path we choose will obviously determine where in life we go. It is like coming to a fork in the road, either you go left or right....sometimes you know where it will take you and sometimes you dont I am also a firm believer that what you dish out to others will come back to you in time. That theory applies to both good and bad. You go out of your way to help people especially in a time of need, it will come back to you when you need it. Sometimes its hard to see it as good karma when things are going bad, but ya know, you have to step back and see the people who had stood by and helped you out. Those are the times when having good karma pays off I agree, all actions have consequences, good or bad. You have to make the choice to which way you go. We have control of our destiny, we just have to make the right choices.She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #29 January 20, 2004 I have a very intertwined view. Here is an explanation I wrote out to someone (I hope they don't mind me putting it out here.) A few definitions as I understand them and as they apply to my life. Fate/Preordination/Destiny: Those things which will happen, no matter what (immutable, unchangeable). Examples: being adopted. Having a double cervix. Chance: things which happen at random. (very similar to fate). Consequence: AKA Cause and Effect. (late for work, fenderbender. Telling your boss to fuck off, and getting fired. Ozzy Osbourne's drug use and current life....) Freewill: Choice of paths to travel, given a set of circumstances. Value creation option. Personal responsibility. What I do believe is, simply put, that there are some things which are consequence based - i e you reap what you sow; and that there are some things which just are, and you get to handle those. Woven into all of that is the concept of free will, and that you can choose a reaction to any situation which will create value from it, or which will create more problems. And laying on top of all of that is personal responsibility. Things, no matter what, are our own responsibility to address in the most appropriate, value creating way, irrespective of the cause...be it "done to us", or via our own creation. If I were to create an equation on this, it would look something like this: + Certain events no one can control + Personal responsibility + Free Will + Cause and Effect Your life (Value Creation) Take, for example, my depression. I didn't know I had it ("fate": body doesn't produce the chemicals), made some bad choices (personal responsibility/freewill), reaped what I had sown and suffered a great deal (Cause and Effect), am now on meds (personal responsibility/freewill) and try to use my depression and recovery to benefit others (Value Creation)... It's rather more complicated then that, but that is a decent example. Ciels- Michele edited because I can't spell equation correctly.... ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #30 January 20, 2004 And again Michele nails it on the head!!!!! She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #31 January 20, 2004 I was gonna say . . . man, a mathematical equation and everything! But . . . does Biology=Fate? Or does it equal Chance? Or does Biology= the square root of (Fate+Chance) to the power of environmental factors? Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #32 January 20, 2004 its an infinite equation There is also no set limit...each person is different.....each of us is given a "limit" to what we can take in life, and at no point will we be given more then we can handle, and we have to keep that in mind. Sometimes things are thrown at us to make us grow....and learn, and become stronger. It is how we choose to deal with these things that will determine where we go...do we stay and do battle and fix what is broken? or give up and run away...and leave the damage behind? Being able to work thru things, makes us stronger, and also improves the consequences we will get in return Those who continually run, will never gain or progress in life..... again it all comes down to choices.....She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #33 January 20, 2004 QuoteBut . . . does Biology=Fate? Or does it equal Chance? Or does Biology= the square root of (Fate+Chance) to the power of environmental factors? I have no idea. I failed algebra. I think there are certain things in your life which are preordained. Nothing you do/don't do will change it. It's not specifically biology - and sorry if I gave that impression. That was just the easiest example I could find. Here's a good example of a non-biologic event; take the '72 quake. It happened. I lived through it. I made some choices about earthquakes, and I live now in the area. While my reaction to it was choice, the earthquake happened. I also believe that there are certain things which, while preordained, are tempered or exacerbated by your action/reaction to the situation. I have a personal responsibility to act in a manner befitting my ethics, morality, and view on life to whatever happens in my world. My actions will either make the situation better or worse - and not just for me, but for those around me. Personal responsibility/free will will often change a negative situation to a positive one, but it takes thought and effort to create value. Does that help any? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #34 January 20, 2004 To be very honest, I don't believe in any of them. Don't believe in much of anything anymore.-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #35 January 20, 2004 Lee, you ok? Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #36 January 20, 2004 QuoteTo be very honest, I don't believe in any of them. Don't believe in much of anything anymore. huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #37 January 20, 2004 go rent the movie "hapenstance".... if i think it is the right movie it is in french so you would have to read the subtitles but then again it could also be the movie "ameil" or something like that..... whole movie is about this chcik and how she keeps missing this guy and then ends up meeting him in the end,,,,, im'm begining to think it is the later... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #38 January 20, 2004 I think I'm gonna be little Fonzi and follow your advice. Sometimes I do wonder, though. I had a opposing counsel tell me to go eff myself once. Although I know it can be a physical impossibility (and my fiancee would have problems with me if I did) I do sometimes wonder whether I should apply his suggestion to my conduct in these forums. Naaaaaahhhhh... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
