JohnRich 4 #176 January 8, 2004 QuoteMy point: JohnRich seems to have taken anti-Gun Control as his pet cause. Thank you for that brilliant and significant contribution to the debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #177 January 8, 2004 QuoteThere is a case they ruled on a few weeks ago finding that the ban was not legal . They said that as long as the guns are not involved in interstate commerce that it is legal to build your own full auto. Cool. For once, I agree with the 9th Circuit. I've always wondered how the Feds get away with that crap. Their only justification for gun regulation is "interstate commerce". So it seems to me, that if I buy a gun within my own state, not crossing a state line, then I should have to deal only with state law, and not federal law. But alas, you still have to undergo the federal background check and paperwork. So it seems to me that the feds have taken over another state right. I imagine the BATF will fight that 9th Circuit ruling to the hilt. The feds don't like being told to buzz off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #178 January 8, 2004 QuoteJohnRich reminds me of Hulk Hogan taking on all comers in a wrastlin' ring, kicking each and everyone's ass without hesitation. Why thank you! But I prefer Chuck Norris to Hulk Hogan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #179 January 8, 2004 Quotehttp://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/2747895/detail.html You can get tons of gun self defense stories like that one, here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #180 January 8, 2004 Thank you, Sir. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,581 #181 January 8, 2004 Quote"For men of understanding do not say that the sword is to blame for murder, nor wine for drunkenness, nor strength for outrage, nor courage for foolhardiness, but they lay the blame on those who make an improper use of the gifts which have been bestowed upon them by God, and punish them accordingly." OK, so let's say it's been proved that gun law's don't affect the rate of gun death and as that sig line says, swords and guns don't kill people, people kill people. Well in that case why do american people kill so many other american people? The gun lobby may have shown that guns don't affect the overall murder rate, so maybe now they can tell us the reason that the murder rate in the US is high compared to other countries. GB hasn't got many guns, not many people are killed. Canada, Switzerland, lots of guns, still not many murders. Why is the US different? Is there something in the politics, economics, society or just the national consciousness of America that causes this high murder rate? (other than gun ownership) (been lurking on this thread for a while, thought i might say something)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #182 January 8, 2004 QuoteIs there something in the politics, economics, society or just the national consciousness of America that causes this high murder rate? (other than gun ownership) Simple answer....YES. And that's what should be addressed. What are all these other things? I can't say. But I have a couple of guesses.... Draconian drug laws that create a violent black market. In association with the above a revolving door justice system for violent criminals to keep cells available for drug offenders. Lack of sufficient social programs to educate and rehabilitate those born into anti-establishment communities. Puritanical based cultural bias against open sexuality in favor of gratuitous violence in the media. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #183 January 8, 2004 PhillyKev brought up some good points. I would also like to add that there seems to be breakdown of society to a degree. God only knows what can go through the pea brains of some. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,125 #184 January 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIs there something in the politics, economics, society or just the national consciousness of America that causes this high murder rate? (other than gun ownership) Simple answer....YES. And that's what should be addressed. What are all these other things? I can't say. But I have a couple of guesses.... Draconian drug laws that create a violent black market. Quote What f**king business is it of the government what substances a sane adult puts into his/her body, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of others? In association with the above a revolving door justice system for violent criminals to keep cells available for drug offenders. Quote Most (maybe all) west European countries have a less punitive justice system than the USA - shorter sentences, more rehab in jail. They also have a lower homicide rate. Lack of sufficient social programs to educate and rehabilitate those born into anti-establishment communities. Quote That is for sure the case. I don't for one moment believe my quality of life is enhanced by having to drive through poverty stricken neighborhoods on my way to work from my affluent suburb. Puritanical based cultural bias against open sexuality in favor of gratuitous violence in the media. Right on!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #185 January 8, 2004 See, John. We're not so different in certain beliefs. Only thing is, because that level of violence exists in our society, I want to make sure I have the best available method of defending myself from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,581 #186 January 8, 2004 Puritanical based cultural bias against open sexuality in favor of gratuitous violence in the media. Good one, I hadn't thought of that. I don't know how much "true crime" you guy's get in the news and in the papers but we get a lot of violence in the cinema, tv and video games too. I wonder how much it does affect people, especially kid's. Christian right definitely seems to get really angry about issues of personal freedom with sexuality though. Thought christians liked to help people not just try and send them straight to hell. They scare me.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #187 January 8, 2004 At least 6 children shot dead in the USA since Wednesday morning ... gun controls save lives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #188 January 8, 2004 It's pretty obvious, really. An easy comparison is radio standards in the US vs. Canada. If you say blow job in the US, the station gets a fine. But if they make a joke about killing pollocks, no problem. Opposite case in Canada. That's just a small example, but it's indicative of the differing cultural morays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #189 January 9, 2004 QuoteAt least 6 children shot dead in the USA since Wednesday morning ... gun controls save lives. Are we talking about gun control or iresponsiable gun owners? Were these kids killed by drive by's or playing with a unloaded gun that they found in their home? Wa state has a very liberal CWP policy. You want a liscense to carry a gun no problem as long as your not a convicted felon or been invluntarily commited to a loony bin, Go to the cop shop fill out the application get fingerprinted and you'll get the liscense after a background check. The sad thing is the sniper in DC came from Wa state and the gun store "didn't know" the guns used by the sniper was missing from his inventory. Prior to the incident in DC BATF knew the gun store couldn't account for hundreds of guns shiped to the store but were "working" with the owner to help him with his paperwork. Anyone want to read about this incident do a search on the net under tacomatrib.net the name of the store is the Bulls eye. BTW it still in business just a different owner. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #190 January 9, 2004 QuoteAt least 6 children shot dead in the USA since Wednesday morning ... gun controls save lives. Please provide your source for this information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #191 January 9, 2004 QuoteAt least 6 children shot dead in the USA since Wednesday morning ... gun controls save lives. How old were they? I refuse to listen to stats about the deaths of "children" over the age of 17, yet certain groups consider people up to and including age 25 "children". And "shot dead" is not an indication that there is a problem, exactly. As some people say, some people "need shooting". If the "children" "shot dead" were, say, warring factions in a gang-related turf war who shot each other, I'm far less concerned than if they were children shot "accidentally" by their friends while playing with a gun they shouldn't have been. Of course, the US highways should have killed around a hundred people today, give or take (I'm sure there are weekday variances). 1 -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #192 January 9, 2004 I know how we can save an average of 30 lives a year. Guess how! FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #193 January 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy point: JohnRich seems to have taken anti-Gun Control as his pet cause. Thank you for that brilliant and significant contribution to the debate. No problem! Someone had to. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #194 January 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteThere is a case they ruled on a few weeks ago finding that the ban was not legal . They said that as long as the guns are not involved in interstate commerce that it is legal to build your own full auto. Cool. For once, I agree with the 9th Circuit. I've always wondered how the Feds get away with that crap. Their only justification for gun regulation is "interstate commerce". So it seems to me, that if I buy a gun within my own state, not crossing a state line, then I should have to deal only with state law, and not federal law. But alas, you still have to undergo the federal background check and paperwork. So it seems to me that the feds have taken over another state right. I imagine the BATF will fight that 9th Circuit ruling to the hilt. The feds don't like being told to buzz off. I was talking to ATF earlier this week and the person I talked to was hoping that it goes through as it will pump a few million into their budget every year . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #195 January 9, 2004 Quotewhy do american people kill so many other american people? ...the reason that the murder rate in the US is high compared to other countries. First of all, there are other modern countries with higher murder rates than the U.S., such as Russia, Brazil and Northern Ireland. The U.S. is not the worst. However, it's not good either. I attribute it to several things. The most significant of which is simply our culture. We're raised to be aggressive, and possess the freedom to run amok if we want to. Did you notice the character of all those video games for children that were being advertised for xmas? Yep, they're mostly all games where you use guns to shoot things. This is how we're raising our kids! And then we wonder why they grow up to think it's okay to shoot people? Part of it is also demographics. It's a documented fact that the denser the population, the higher the crime rate. And America, because of its huge size, has 42 cities with over one-million population. This crime concentration drives our rates up, compared to smaller countries without this magnitude of large population centers. But culture is the big one. We've got to quit blaming everything else, and accept the fact that we breed violence. It's painful to think of ourselves that way, but as long as we bury our heads in the sand and ignore this fact, we're doomed to continue. It's too easy to blame something else... Hold people responsible for their own actions, and quit making excuses! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #196 January 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteAt least 6 children shot dead in the USA since Wednesday morning ... gun controls save lives. How old were they? I refuse to listen to stats about the deaths of "children" over the age of 17, yet certain groups consider people up to and including age 25 "children". You seem to have the same suspicions about that statement as I do. Such statements are often made about young adults, over age 18, who get shot committing crimes or in gang wars. Thus, you have to watch out for this kind of rhetoric. That's why I asked him for his source. I'm glad to see you are savvy to this kind of deception. If this is some kind of daily average, then 6 x 365 days = 2,190 "children" shot dead per year. The statistics do not support this number. If he provides his source for this info, we can find out for sure. I'm betting he won't... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #197 January 9, 2004 QuoteQuotewhy do american people kill so many other american people? ...the reason that the murder rate in the US is high compared to other countries. First of all, there are other modern countries with higher murder rates than the U.S., such as Russia, Brazil and Northern Ireland. The U.S. is not the worst. However, it's not good either. I attribute it to several things. The most significant of which is simply our culture. We're raised to be aggressive, and possess the freedom to run amok if we want to. Did you notice the character of all those video games for children that were being advertised for xmas? Yep, they're mostly all games where you use guns to shoot things. This is how we're raising our kids! And then we wonder why they grow up to think it's okay to shoot people? Part of it is also demographics. It's a documented fact that the denser the population, the higher the crime rate. And America, because of its huge size, has 42 cities with over one-million population. This crime concentration drives our rates up, compared to smaller countries without this magnitude of large population centers. But culture is the big one. We've got to quit blaming everything else, and accept the fact that we breed violence. It's painful to think of ourselves that way, but as long as we bury our heads in the sand and ignore this fact, we're doomed to continue. It's too easy to blame something else... Hold people responsible for their own actions, and quit making excuses! Thank for throwing that out there John, and all this time I thought it was gun control laws that don' work! blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,581 #198 January 9, 2004 If the "children" "shot dead" were, say, warring factions in a gang-related turf war who shot each other, I'm far less concerned than if they were children shot "accidentally" by their friends while playing with a gun they shouldn't have been. You're not concerned about large numbers of heavily armed minors roaming the streets looking for a fight? WTF!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #199 January 9, 2004 QuoteA few democrats here eh? let me go vomit You want to control all of the guns, let the good citizens do their second amendment duties and focus on the criminals with guns. I would put all my money on 90 percent of those shootings are from illegal guns in operation by career criminals or people that just went haywire, in the mental case I agree they should not have a gun but who is to determine that? If they are minors and are known for violent behavior the parents should lock guns up. But if a person wants a gun they can GET a gun(Illegally) Which as I say again is not the legal gun owners fault. Your assault ban puts guns with bayonets and pistol grips in a that category. When is the last time you seen a drive by bayonetting? P.S. a pistol grip is not a magic word for infrared laser human seeking device it is a piece of plastic. There are 2 categories of guns in my book fully auto and semi-auto. Assault weapons fall into the semi-auto category as well as fully auto. The thing that gets me is you never complain about .22 caliber rifles or deer guns either. They kill you just as fast as your "assault rifle". The problem(shootings) lies in illegal guns not legal law abiding gun owners. I am not a redneck outlaw either I am a police officer. I see the problems first hand. Don't think it is all guns/people it is not. i heard one time that cops in the US would prefer home owners not to have guns, saying that most don't know how to use them properly, shoot through walls, shoot their own family members by mistake, shoot cops by mistake and generally make more dangerous situations for themselves by owning them. Is there any truth to that? I would imagine the last thing a cop showing up at a burglary call wants to have to worry about is whether to homeowner is inside holed up with a piece wondering if the burglar is still inside. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #200 January 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhen was the last time you practiced a fire drill in your home? When I got back to college station from Xmas w/ the parents, something didn't feel right when I drove up to my house, so I roomcleared each room of the house in the correct order/fasion with my firearm and my mid-sized maglight. Does that count as a fire drill? did you really do that? Why? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
