Remster 30 #76 January 7, 2004 QuoteI say make it mandatory that every citizen upon reaching 18 take a firearm safety course and a tactical weapons use course and be required to carry a firearm, nonconcealed. Anyone else hearing the Bonanza theme right now? Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #77 January 7, 2004 Yeehaw pardner! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #78 January 7, 2004 QuoteSo how would you recommend keeping guns away from felons and the insane, given that the current set of laws are so easily circumvented that they aren't doing the job? No idea, really. The same way we keep drugs out of the hands of drug addicts? What's the point though in creating even more laws to govern the lawless? In the case of gun control, the laws really do seem to impact the law abiding citizens more than their intended targets. Do you disagree? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #79 January 7, 2004 I agree Jimbo. WE are the ones affected. Those who break the law will always find ways to circumvent the law. And outlawing guns willonly take the guns out of the hands of lawabiding citizens. Drugs are illegal and they still get in. Make guns illegal and they will still get too, only now the criminals KNOW you are unarmed. That is why my idea works the best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #80 January 7, 2004 Quote QuoteSo how would you recommend keeping guns away from felons and the insane, given that the current set of laws are so easily circumvented that they aren't doing the job? No idea, really. The same way we keep drugs out of the hands of drug addicts? What's the point though in creating even more laws to govern the lawless? In the case of gun control, the laws really do seem to impact the law abiding citizens more than their intended targets. Do you disagree? - Jim As currently implemented it is clear that the laws are ineffective. However, I think the NRA and other pro-gun organizations have made a real effort to ensure that the implementation of gun laws was destined to fail. I suspect that effective laws could be devised, but would not pass due to political reasons. The USA accepts the status quo, including a ridiculously high homicide rate, because it likes it that way. Same with highway speed limits and the highway death rate.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #81 January 7, 2004 QuoteI say make it mandatory that every citizen upon reaching 18 take a firearm safety course and a tactical weapons use course and be required to carry a firearm, nonconcealed. Then if a person committs and is convicted of a VIOLENT felony or misdemeanor (sp? - too lazy to look it up today) must wear a tattoo on their forehead. Those people shall not be allowed to carry a firearm at all. Now if every lawabiding citizen is carrying a firearm and has the training to use them and every VIOLENT criminal has an identifying mark. I think VIOLENT criminals will think twice about starting anything. That might have a hard time with the Constitution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #82 January 7, 2004 QuoteI agree Jimbo. WE are the ones affected. Those who break the law will always find ways to circumvent the law. And outlawing guns willonly take the guns out of the hands of lawabiding citizens. Drugs are illegal and they still get in. Make guns illegal and they will still get too, only now the criminals KNOW you are unarmed. That is why my idea works the best. Every felon was once a lawabiding citizen, and almost every felon's gun was purchased originally by a lawabiding citizen. Lawabiding citizens have a dismal record of responsibility when it comes to properly safeguarding, transferring or disposing of firearms.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #83 January 7, 2004 QuoteNo idea, really. The same way we keep drugs out of the hands of drug addicts? What's the point though in creating even more laws to govern the lawless? And I don't think the American public is willing to foot the bill for the amount of manpower and resources it would most likely take to fully enforce the current anti-gun laws. Just like the current drug laws. The law enforcement community is doing everything it can with the resources at hand. Know whats funny? Quite a few liberals are motivated to legalize some drugs (in some cases, all drugs), but think they'd do the same for weapons? I guess we'd have to just yell at legal drug addicts trying to hurt/kill/steal/destroy and hope it all works out. I don't feel like getting all the data together again, but if anyone feels like searching, I've posted data, graphs and studies showing the drastic drop of violent crime in Texas since 1996. Know what happened in 1996? Conceal Carry laws were implemented and Texans (in large numbers) went through the training and the extensive FBI background checks to obtain the right to carry permit. Funny how that works.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #84 January 7, 2004 QuoteI suspect that effective laws could be devised, but would not pass due to political reasons. Please elaborate. I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this matter. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #85 January 7, 2004 Quotealmost every felon's gun was purchased originally by a lawabiding citizen. Prove that statement, I want independant sources and studies.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #86 January 7, 2004 I do not see any violations with the contstitution here. And getting rid of the citizen's right to bear arms would certainly go against the constitution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #87 January 7, 2004 QuoteEvery felon was once a lawabiding citizen, and almost every felon's gun was purchased originally by a lawabiding citizen. What about on the other side of the pond? England seems to be dealing with a rise in firearms crimes lately, right? They've got some pretty strict gun laws there, how are they helping to curb the problem? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #88 January 7, 2004 QuoteQuotealmost every felon's gun was purchased originally by a lawabiding citizen. Prove that statement, I want independant sources and studies. Look it up then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #89 January 7, 2004 I am a liberal. I am pro-choice. I would never, ever have an abortion, yet I refuse to force my own decision on someone else. I am pro gay rights. The gender of the individual someone chooses to marry has absolutely nothing to do with me and does not affect my own relationship decisions. I am pro marijuana legalization (although I do not smoke it). Put the same restrictions on it as alcohol and let adults make their own choices. (highly addictive substances are another matter, however) and I support the right to bear arms, provided that right is executed in a responsible, adult manner. From my perspective, individual freedoms are important. I don't like my choices being taken away, and I will not support legislation to take away others' ability to make their own life decisions about the things that are important to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #90 January 7, 2004 QuoteLook it up then. You're trying to convince us, so the burden is yours for proof. That's a basic fundemental of a debate. *shrug* Ok, so if you don't want to show me proof, then I'm going to continue with the assumption that it is not a valid fact and not a valid point of your arguement.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #91 January 7, 2004 QuoteFrom my perspective, individual freedoms are important. That's great! Unfortunatly there are quite a few on your side of the fence that don't see it that way. Quite a few that are hypocrits as well. (As well as on my side of the fence). For instance, look at Rosan Bar (sp?), she's a very outspoken anti-gun rights advocate, YET her body guard carries a concealed weapon. I guess she's special since she's famous, the regular citizen isn't good enough to have the same right.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #92 January 7, 2004 Roseanne Barr is a moron no matter which way you look at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #93 January 7, 2004 QuoteKnow whats funny? Quite a few liberals are motivated to legalize some drugs (in some cases, all drugs), but think they'd do the same for weapons? Yep..I'm one, and I know many others. Contrary to the typical conservative accusations about "liberals" based on misguided policies of the democratic party, most of us liberals want less government restrictions on personal freedom. We view the purpose of the federal government is to provide services that ensure equality and basic standards of living for all our fellow citizens, not to restrict us, but to enhance us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #94 January 7, 2004 QuoteI do not see any violations with the contstitution here. Quote Requiring all adults to have and carry a firearm? Next you'll be wanting us all to wear clothes in public.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #95 January 7, 2004 >Unfortunatly there are quite a few on your side of the fence >that don't see it that way. Which fence? Liberal/conservative or democrat/republican? I'm a liberal, and I think that any sane adult non-criminal should have a right to own a gun. I'm against laws that interfere with that right, I'm for laws that support that (both allowing most people to use guns and getting guns out of the hands of criminals.) Since I vote for democrats, republicans, green party people, libertarians and independents, I can't really comment on "my" political party. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #96 January 7, 2004 I vote issues too, not parties. I'm registered democrat. I like the republican party's economics, but I don't like the social restrictions the party so often advocates. I dislike the democratic party's economics (I think most social programs ought to be paid for through private charity), but I do like the freedom of personal choice advocated by the party. From my perspective, individual freedom outweighs economics, so I registered democrat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdgregory 0 #97 January 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI do not see any violations with the contstitution here. Quote Requiring all adults to have and carry a firearm? Next you'll be wanting us all to wear clothes in public. LMFAO! I . . . am . . . speechless . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #98 January 7, 2004 Quoteyour premise "Gun Control Laws Don't Work! " is neither factual nor logical. There's yet another generic criticism, just like Kallend's. It is void of any specifics. It's so easy to throw those out, since you don't actually provide any facts or logic to support your statement. Which makes it worthless and meaningless. I provided a study to support my statement. You've provided nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #99 January 7, 2004 QuoteTake away all the laws on the books now and work it out for yourself. one example: take away the back ground check for buying a fire arm last year, and I grantee you x number of felons would be walking around with firearms today. That doesn't equate to higher gun crime. Any criminal who wants a gun can still get one illegally. Thus, all the felons who want a gun, get one anyway, despite the gun control laws. What you seem to be assuming is that felons obey laws, and that's false by definition. QuoteWhy do you keep posting this garbage? One man's "garbage" is another man's interesting debate. If you don't like it, stop reading it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #100 January 7, 2004 QuoteThe point being? Well...the phrase "broken record" comes to mind. So why do you keep reading a thread which you consider to be a "broken record"? Just because I may talk about this subject a lot here, doesn't mean that what I say is invalid, despite your attempt at a characterization. 100% of your posts end with you saying that you kill kittens - isn't that record a bit broken? Oh, and a lot of those hits you found in my message counts would have been from the "Freefalling Bullets" thread, which has nothing to do with gun politics. I'm still waiting for you to post something besides sniping as your usualy contribution to the discussion... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 4 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 3,116 #95 January 7, 2004 >Unfortunatly there are quite a few on your side of the fence >that don't see it that way. Which fence? Liberal/conservative or democrat/republican? I'm a liberal, and I think that any sane adult non-criminal should have a right to own a gun. I'm against laws that interfere with that right, I'm for laws that support that (both allowing most people to use guns and getting guns out of the hands of criminals.) Since I vote for democrats, republicans, green party people, libertarians and independents, I can't really comment on "my" political party. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #96 January 7, 2004 I vote issues too, not parties. I'm registered democrat. I like the republican party's economics, but I don't like the social restrictions the party so often advocates. I dislike the democratic party's economics (I think most social programs ought to be paid for through private charity), but I do like the freedom of personal choice advocated by the party. From my perspective, individual freedom outweighs economics, so I registered democrat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #97 January 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI do not see any violations with the contstitution here. Quote Requiring all adults to have and carry a firearm? Next you'll be wanting us all to wear clothes in public. LMFAO! I . . . am . . . speechless . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #98 January 7, 2004 Quoteyour premise "Gun Control Laws Don't Work! " is neither factual nor logical. There's yet another generic criticism, just like Kallend's. It is void of any specifics. It's so easy to throw those out, since you don't actually provide any facts or logic to support your statement. Which makes it worthless and meaningless. I provided a study to support my statement. You've provided nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #99 January 7, 2004 QuoteTake away all the laws on the books now and work it out for yourself. one example: take away the back ground check for buying a fire arm last year, and I grantee you x number of felons would be walking around with firearms today. That doesn't equate to higher gun crime. Any criminal who wants a gun can still get one illegally. Thus, all the felons who want a gun, get one anyway, despite the gun control laws. What you seem to be assuming is that felons obey laws, and that's false by definition. QuoteWhy do you keep posting this garbage? One man's "garbage" is another man's interesting debate. If you don't like it, stop reading it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #100 January 7, 2004 QuoteThe point being? Well...the phrase "broken record" comes to mind. So why do you keep reading a thread which you consider to be a "broken record"? Just because I may talk about this subject a lot here, doesn't mean that what I say is invalid, despite your attempt at a characterization. 100% of your posts end with you saying that you kill kittens - isn't that record a bit broken? Oh, and a lot of those hits you found in my message counts would have been from the "Freefalling Bullets" thread, which has nothing to do with gun politics. I'm still waiting for you to post something besides sniping as your usualy contribution to the discussion... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 4 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
JohnRich 4 #98 January 7, 2004 Quoteyour premise "Gun Control Laws Don't Work! " is neither factual nor logical. There's yet another generic criticism, just like Kallend's. It is void of any specifics. It's so easy to throw those out, since you don't actually provide any facts or logic to support your statement. Which makes it worthless and meaningless. I provided a study to support my statement. You've provided nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #99 January 7, 2004 QuoteTake away all the laws on the books now and work it out for yourself. one example: take away the back ground check for buying a fire arm last year, and I grantee you x number of felons would be walking around with firearms today. That doesn't equate to higher gun crime. Any criminal who wants a gun can still get one illegally. Thus, all the felons who want a gun, get one anyway, despite the gun control laws. What you seem to be assuming is that felons obey laws, and that's false by definition. QuoteWhy do you keep posting this garbage? One man's "garbage" is another man's interesting debate. If you don't like it, stop reading it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #100 January 7, 2004 QuoteThe point being? Well...the phrase "broken record" comes to mind. So why do you keep reading a thread which you consider to be a "broken record"? Just because I may talk about this subject a lot here, doesn't mean that what I say is invalid, despite your attempt at a characterization. 100% of your posts end with you saying that you kill kittens - isn't that record a bit broken? Oh, and a lot of those hits you found in my message counts would have been from the "Freefalling Bullets" thread, which has nothing to do with gun politics. I'm still waiting for you to post something besides sniping as your usualy contribution to the discussion... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
