skydiverek 63 #1 December 12, 2010 Wow!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrgSVIryvtw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #2 December 12, 2010 In the video: A table total is shown. The lead seal can be seen pulled into the top grommet. Jumper thinks the seal thread was routed through the eye of the closing loop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #3 December 12, 2010 Wow. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hvance 0 #4 December 12, 2010 Yeah someone posted this a few months back. It's scary.. I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #5 December 12, 2010 I don't see how that could have been accidently passed through the closing loop... you would have to try to put it through there."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #6 December 12, 2010 Quote I don't see how that could have been accidently passed through the closing loop... you would have to try to put it through there. I'd agree. I think maybe some rigger thought that the Seal would stay in place better that way... (Well, I guess they were right about that..)=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #7 December 12, 2010 Quote Quote I don't see how that could have been accidently passed through the closing loop... you would have to try to put it through there. I'd agree. I think maybe some rigger thought that the Seal would stay in place better that way... (Well, I guess they were right about that..) Seals aren't hard to place... its harder to press the seal than it is to place it. I dont know how the hell he would have passed the seal thread through the closing loop without some sort of needle..."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #8 December 12, 2010 QuoteI dont know how the hell he would have passed the seal thread through the closing loop without some sort of needle... Every Now and then I'll pack a reserve where the rigger before me put stupid loop ~ you know, where the loop is 1/2 length of the closing loop itself? (I don't consider that a big no-no as more I consider it just generally bad form). If you made a "stupid-loop" as I have described, I can actually see it being pretty easy.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #9 December 12, 2010 There is a gap under the pin, as wide as the pin, that continually gets smaller till you get to the junction in the finger trap. it is possible to pass thread under the pin without a needle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #10 December 12, 2010 **If we can wait until Wednesday or Thursday, I'm going to try to recreate this malfunction with a rig I have.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #11 December 12, 2010 Most riggers here do not use seals, neither in Australia. When I first saw a seal I thought to myself; someone could fuck that up pretty good. My feelings were correct."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #12 December 12, 2010 Quote When I first saw a seal I thought to myself; someone could fuck that up pretty good. really? When I first saw a seal, I thought, 4.75 pound thread, little piece of lead, Someone must have to really try to fuck that up. My feelings were also correct. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 December 12, 2010 Where was the rig when the ripcord was pulled, laying on the table or on someone’s back? What kind of rig, what kind of shape was the pilot chute in? Did you carefully look over the rest of the pack job? Have you talked with the rigger who packed it? Too many unanswered questions. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #14 December 12, 2010 In Poland we use a piece of paper with rigger's stamp and signautre, instead of a lead seal. That would squeeze thru the grommet easily . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #15 December 12, 2010 Quote In Poland we use a piece of paper with rigger's stamp and signautre, instead of a lead seal. That would squeeze thru the grommet easily . That's exactly what we were using in Bulgaria till 2009. Then the people in charge thought that the lead seal is better than a piece of paper "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #16 December 12, 2010 Quote Quote In Poland we use a piece of paper with rigger's stamp and signautre, instead of a lead seal. That would squeeze thru the grommet easily . That's exactly what we were using in Bulgaria till 2009. Then the people in charge thought that the lead seal is better than a piece of paper But why put the seal thread through the closing loop in the first place? Depending on the rig, putting it through the loop may be easy, or it may be difficult, but either way, it is not done without actually trying to do it. Some rigs have many flaps between the pilot chute (spring) and the pin. More flaps means that less force from the spring will actually get to the end of the loop to break a thread that is through it. By the time the closing loop has gone through 4 flaps, I am not surprised that the force has been reduced to where it will not break the thread. The full pilot chute spring force won't be available until some of the flaps have peeled back. Considering this force reduction from the flaps, it is critical that we never do anything that might make it more difficult for the pilot chute to deploy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #17 December 12, 2010 This not only requires putting the seal thread through the loop but also putting both legs of the thread through the seal to form a closed loop. I don't seal my rigs that way. This is an old story but worth reviewing at the Rigger Forum at the PIA symposium. We are working on paper seals in the U.S. but right now the FAA has issued a letter requiring them. If one manufacturer put paper seals in their manual we'd probably be good to go.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #18 December 13, 2010 Can you post a photo or a sketch of how you seal? Regardless of how you seal, if you don't put the thread through the closing loop, it won't affect the closing loop when the pin is pulled. But even if the thread was through the closing loop, shouldn't pulling the pin break the thread? How did it not in this example? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,451 #19 December 13, 2010 Hi Paul, QuoteBut even if the thread was through the closing loop, shouldn't pulling the pin break the thread? Yes, it broke the thread but not where you probably think. Picture this: You attach the thread onto the cable, above the pin. This gives you two 'legs' of thread coming from the cable. Then you take one leg of the thread & put it through the seal. Now take this same leg of the thread & go through the loop. Now take this same leg of the thread & go back through the other hole in the seal. Now tie the seal threads ends together & now slide the seal close to the loop and mash it. Now when you pull, you break the thread between the seal & the cable; but the thread legs between the seal & the loop are still intact, forming a 'loop' of seal thread. Do you understand how this might do it? I hope that I've described it correctly, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #20 December 13, 2010 What Jerry said. I put the thread on the cable, one end under the pin, the same end through the hole in the seal closest to the pin, then the same in makes a 180 and back down the other hole. The other end of the thread through the same hole, adjust size and mash. I haven't tied a knot in 20 years. Too late for pics. Maybe tomorrow. But busy with something for Jerry. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #21 December 13, 2010 I'm curious, does anybody know what happened to the fellow who packed this rig? License suspended? If such an issue was shown by simply routing the seal thread incorrectly, why didn't we see some sort of circular advisory?=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #22 December 13, 2010 QuoteI'm curious, does anybody know what happened to the fellow who packed this rig? License suspended? If such an issue was shown by simply routing the seal thread incorrectly, why didn't we see some sort of circular advisory? Like so many things in FAR’s, the proper way to seal a reserve is somewhat vague and open to interpretation. This is what Part 65 says. 65.133 Seal. Each certificated parachute rigger must have a seal with an identifying mark prescribed by the Administrator, and a seal press. After packing a parachute he shall seal the pack with his seal in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation for that type of parachute. This is what a few of the manufactures say out it. Sunpath:Seal the reserve container and log the work done on the packing data card and in your rigger's logbook. Mirage: Refer to Poynters Manual for additional information on sealing reserve! Wings: 16. Seal the reserve container and log the work done on the packing data card and in your rigger’s logbook. And then Pointer’s Manual. http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/5257353970/ SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #23 December 13, 2010 God that give me the willies! A good reminder to check your pins, not jsut that there in but correctly routed! This is really scary, I bet the owner was a little sick seeing that.Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #24 December 13, 2010 Pretty scary indeed! Is it just me, or did anybody else watch that waiting for the PC to slam into the camera?Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #25 December 13, 2010 Quote What Jerry said. I put the thread on the cable, one end under the pin, the same end through the hole in the seal closest to the pin, then the same in makes a 180 and back down the other hole. The other end of the thread through the same hole, adjust size and mash. I haven't tied a knot in 20 years. Too late for pics. Maybe tomorrow. But busy with something for Jerry. Thats exactly how the riggers I've been working with taught me how to seal it. One would think that even if you did put the leg through the loop, it will still feed through when the pin is pulled but hey... It will give me something to screw around with today."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
