Does anyone care anymore?????

[pleifer 0]

Here in oregon. Teachers either have to get a national certification or their masters degree within 6 years of teaching. And those first 7 years are the lowest paying. How does the government expect it to be done. My sister is a teacher and she is soo burned out she want to get out of it within the next couple of years....
the governemt has set up a vicious cycle or a catch 22 if you will. of low paid teachers and under educated youth.
But remember we are the land of the free.
With the largest military (times 5-10) in the world
guess that shows our prioritys
flame!!!
flame on!!!

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I was sort of hoping this strategy was to MAKE us all realize that it IS NOT the governments RESPONSIBILITY to educate our children.

Seems like if they don't help us, eventually, we'll have to help ourselves.

We can make a difference, ONE KID AT A TIME

[skymama 37]

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Here's is a NOVEL idea..... PARENTS

yes I'm a parent and daily I am disgusted with the LACK of interest parents have in their children. They mostly believe the government is here to raise them, feed them, educate them, employ them... NO WONDER things are such a mess..

LOL..I know you don't know me, but I'm not the one you need to be preaching to about being involved in their children's lives, trust me. If you want proof, I'll have my 15 year old daughter log on and she can tell you how much worse her life is than everyone else she knows because of the restrictions and rules I have in addition to the minimum standards we require her to reach. I hear about it every day.

By law, children are required to be in school for so many hours a day and so many days a year. Because of that, we need the best teachers that we can get. The best way to do that is to offer them more money or benefits in order to compete with salaries they can get in the business world. My kids spend more time at school than free time they have with me. The only other choice I have besides sending them to school is to homeschool them. It wouldn't be a very wise choice because I am a single mother and I need to earn a living. They would get a substandard education at home with me compared to the school system because I need to work full time to put a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs and food on the table.

I would say I have an above average level of intelligence, but at the Middle School and High School level that my kids are in, I can promise you that they're going to learn more from the specialized teachers that they have now in every period then they would with the general knowledge information that I have. I don't expect teachers to raise my children and teach them good values, morals and to have integrity, but I do look to them to provide an education beyond what I can do at home. It IS about time our country learned to value and appreciate the teaching profession a little more.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[hmatousek 0]

I do agree with you about it not being the governments responsibility to teach our children, however they are the ones providing the salaries for the teachers.

I hope you realize that many of the parents on here are the exception of being involved in thier childrens lives. Many American parents are not involved enough. Currently teachers, in many cases, are rasing the youth of America.

Thank you to all of you who support your children, it is appreciated. Thank you to those who support the teachers in thier childs life. That too is greatly appreciated.

Heather

Life doesn't have to be perfect in order to be beautiful!

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Andrea, no not you in particular, we have spoken before and I know you are INVOLVED for sure...but, tell me, how involved are the parents of your childrens friends?

On average, you kids spend 35-40 hours per week at school, then they spend and average of 50-60 hours NOT in school....

I believe that we ALL homeschool, at some level or another, but for most, the minimum level. I work at home. It's a choice I made. I have opened my own businessess and consider myself a successful mom-prenuer, having children was the choice I made... I don't feel I have the RIGHT to rethink that decision and decide a 'certain lifestyle' is worth the risk to my child's future. If I have to have a cardboard coffee table so that I can give my kid the MOST of me...then so be it. My daughter co-owns a business with me www.Always4Kids.com and together, we learn everything. I cannot imagine how this can't work for the motivated parents out there.
again, I agree that money is not the solution, still I believe parents, EVEN ME, can do MORE than I am...

[wingnut 0]

to answer the questionin the subject..... i don't......

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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to answer the questionin the subject..... i don't......

isn't this the problem in a nutshell?

even if you don't have kids, it should be important..

[wingnut 0]

opps.. i just skimed the first paragraph.. sorry.... okay o answer the whole thing now that i read it.........


sure there is alot of red tape and i am all in favor of making the sools ike our parents schools (circa 60-early 70's) lets bring back the paddle and disipline in the class room... iknow my school would of been alot quiter if the fear of the padle was still there.......

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Your probably right, I just posed the idea to the two girls here now, both 9, and they aren't for it!!
LOL

[gary350 0]

A lot of people believe that a big reason that there even IS a war is directly related to the incredible failures of the administration on domestic issues - jobs, deficit, the environment, the uninsured, funding for education, social programs etc. It is a somewhat cynical view, but I understand it.

Blah blah deficits - 9-11!
Blah blah social cuts - War On Terror!
Blah blah 2,300,000 jobs lost - Weapons Mass Destruction!
Blah blah civil liberties eroded - Defend the Country!
Blah blah fuck the environment - Patriotism!

If there wasn't a "war" to get folks rallying behind the pres, they might be paying attention to the immense failure (unless you are rich, religious, pro-life, or a logger/polluter) this administration has been.

[boxingrrl 0]

I wanted to apologize for kinda hijacking this thread away from your issues as a teacher by my ranting about what's going on my school district and the lack of parental involvement.

One thing that came to mind is that perhaps not enough people distinguish between teachers and school, or more specifically administrators. It's easier to lump them together as one and the same instead of realizing that they experience the education system from totally different perspectives. Likewise, teachers are not the legislators making up these unfunded mandates. Teachers are often as much at the mercy of the administration as the taxpayers.

So, kudos to you and your professional brethen for putting up with all that crap.

[sdgregory 0]

The current state of education is why we pulled our kids out of public school and homeschool.

1.) Teachers are paid as much as 40% less than others with the same degree in other fields. (this had no bearing on us removing our kids but is just pisses me off.)

2.) This concept of teaching toward standardized tests, of not allowing teachers to be dynamic and inspiring, of just passing kids through, has gotten out of hand.

3.) The shortage of GOOD teachers has seen many who should not be teaching receive jobs they should not. I do not subscribe to the adage "Those who can't, teach.". I believe it should be "THose who can, Teach."


There are other reasons the current state of affairs really has me worried. As it does many other parents. That is why you see so many of us resorting to homeschooling. I do not envy the position teachers are in today. I always wanted to teach but because of the current state of things I have decided to go private industry and changed my major from Math and Education to Engineering. I will make more as an Engineer with a B.S. than most teachers with a M.A./M.S. will make. That is just sad.

[sdgregory 0]

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This is a nice idea and all, but the truth of the matter is that in any case after elementary school, teachers are specialized. Just as you didn't major in everything, you aren't really qualified to teach your kid everything. Unless you know everything, in which case, more power to you. But until parents know everything or everyone can afford to go to private schools, the government's gonna have to do just a little educating for us.

No one is more qualified to teach a child than the parent. Public school has only been around for little over a few hundred years and the human race has been around for thousands of years. We did fine without public schooling prior to then. We will survive without it. Homeschooling kids as a whole are outperforming kids in "traditional" education systems.

Encouraging curiosity, inquisitiveness and a thirst for knowledge, then giving them the tools necessary to discover things for them selves and guiding them toward knowledge, using your own knowledge as a guide. Furthermore, history is filled with self educated people who have achieved many great things. Alexander Hamilton comes to mind rather quickly.

As far as needing specialization, by networking with the community of homeschooling parents you can find people who specialize in every subject you can ever imagine and help each other's children to learn should they feel the need.

The public school system has outlived its usefulness in its current state. Since not everyone wants to nor is able to homeschool, I agree that the system needs revamping. First and foremost is raising salaries to attract those of us who would love to teach and have the gift of teaching but will not teach due to the current state of affairs. Second is get rid of those teachers who are incompetent. Third get rid of this "OBE" crap.

[Deuce 1]

Vouchers, my dear. My kids teacher is an ex-nun, mom of 3, with an MA in education.

It takes two incomes, like in most other endeavors.

With vouchers, I'd be getting some of the 50% of my California tax dollars that I spend towards education, and I'd pay more in tuition to pay teachers like you.

But the government discourages my moral values.

So I pay huge taxes towards a crappy education system, and I pay big bucks every month to educate my kids outside that system.

It's still pennies on the dollar compared to the outrageous waste that per pupil spending is in the public system.

God, if we had the per pupil spending the state spends and spent it in the Catholic system ( I know lots of people have issues with my religion, but it is, bar none, the most cost effective educational establishment), the public school rate of students continuing on to College would be 95% for the public schools too.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Quote

No one is more qualified to teach a child than the parent. Public school has only been around for little over a few hundred years and the human race has been around for thousands of years. We did fine without public schooling prior to then. We will survive without it. Homeschooling kids as a whole are outperforming kids in "traditional" education systems.

Encouraging curiosity, inquisitiveness and a thirst for knowledge, then giving them the tools necessary to discover things for them selves and guiding them toward knowledge, using your own knowledge as a guide. Furthermore, history is filled with self educated people who have achieved many great things. Alexander Hamilton comes to mind rather quickly.

As far as needing specialization, by networking with the community of homeschooling parents you can find people who specialize in every subject you can ever imagine and help each other's children to learn should they feel the need.

Thank you for backing up some of my finer points... 1. the public education system isn't that old...
2. no one is more qualified to teach a child then the parent.

We don't homeschool anymore, but we started out that way. I have had these beliefs since I was in school. We stopped because we couldn't get enough social interaction for her in... she was missing some social skills that it's taken 4 years to acquire... however...
We ALSO homeschool to round out what they don't accomplish in school, own a business jointly (always4kids gift baskets), and work together on nearly everything, including flying although she still has much to learn. It has built a STRONG relationship to enlighten her with flying.... perhaps the world would be a better place if we could teach all children to fly.

Sean, looking forward to teachin YOURS!! Necklaces are secured btw.

[wingnut 0]

duece, my father and all his brothers ans sisters (6 total) went to catholic shool and my cousins have gone too... i would of gone if it wouldn't of been for the 40 mile drive. i do have to say the education they got was well above mine in public school...got to see what my cousins had to do (only 1 year older) and it was some hard stuff for the grade level!!!! and yes they had strict nuns and all but alas the ruller across the nuckles has been replaced.... at least in that school......

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[Nightingale 0]

it may be cost effective, but is it GOOD?

I have seen SO MANY kids from catholic grade schools go on to a public high school and fail math. They fail math because they don't have as good a math background. This is a well known problem amongst catholic schools (however, one they usually do not disclose to parents), and they are working to improve, some dioceses more than others. The kids do eventually catch up, however, because they have a better critical thinking background, and usually better language skills as well. However, I've seen even straight A students really struggle with math their freshman year, so I would encourage any parent of a child in Catholic school to get their child some tutoring between eighth grade and high school, just to be sure.

Get a copy of your state standards, and make sure your child is learning the standards. Although Catholic schools are not required to follow standards, it is usually recommended by the accreditors (WASC in my part of the country) because most children will transition into public high schools, where they will be expected to be at the same place as the students there.

Should they continue to a Catholic high school however, it won't be a problem. The Catholic high schools dialogue with the elementary schools to find out what the students are taught and what they still need to know, and work with each other. The public schools are not usually given this opportunity, and are not usually able to attend, even if invited.

Don't get me wrong, Catholic school is a GREAT education. However, parents should be aware of this one common weakness, so they can compensate if need be.

[WrongWay 0]

Here's my $.99 Super Value Meal...

First off, do I care about political threads, subjects, or who is in what administrative office? To be frank, no. I could care less what blundering idiot they put in a presidential position next, but I still hope that the next one has a high enough vocabulary to spell or at least correctly pronounce CAT.

Do I care about the teachers and their children and all the problems that're gonna come their way because of these guys? Of course I do. Decent hardworking people like yourself should be paid much more, not only because you're raising the next American society, but let's face it, you do a damn tough job. My sister in law is a teacher, and I can't tell you how many times she's dropped by here almost in tears because of what a rough day she had with her students, or because something bad happened to one of her students because of who they are. (She Special Ed.) When you teach smaller classes (as I'm from a small community) you develop personal relationships with students in which you care about them, and want to push them to do well, not just for your paycheck and making your class look impressive, but because you care, and WANT them to do well for THEM. Rarely in a job is that much responsibility put on a person, the young minds of America's youth in your hands. For that, I think it's absolute bullshit that teachers are not paid in piles of cash, because you are actually helping to raise up to 30 of other people's kids. Even if there's not much we can do about it now, my hat's off to you.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[LoudDan 0]

Not to come off like a complete ass, but how many people here like tax cuts....those cuts always come off of education and human services. I haven't heard anyone ever say we need to raise taxes to put a shot of the good stuff into education.

On another note, how many hours per day/ days per year does a middle school teacher word? I have a friend who has the summers off (nearly three months, a week an Christmas, twenty some-odd holidays throughout the year, plus paid vacation of two weeks during the year. So that's about 8 months working) Out of eight periods, she teaches six, plus she gets a lunch hour which equals out to working six hours a day.

So the question I ask and I'm sure most will answer pissed off is, Why should someone who works eight months out of the year and only six hours out of the day be paid the same as an equivalently qualified individual who puts in eight hours a day all year round?

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[Nightingale 0]

1. They only get paid for the months that they work.

2. Not only do they work in their classrooms, they work for hours at home planning and grading papers. As a science teacher, my mom works at least three hours a night, and some time on weekends grading papers.

3. Teachers don't get a "lunch hour". They get 30 minutes, if they're lucky. Also, many teachers have to serve "yard duty" during their break/lunch time.

4. Typically, teachers spend a week before school starts in meetings. The week before that is spent readying the classroom. After the end of school, there are more meetings, and more classroom cleanup. That's a month right there.

5. Teachers are required to take classes to keep their credentials current. They are not paid for this time, and are expected to pay for the classes out of their own pockets. Typically, this is done in the summer.

6. As for those "days off" you mention... most of the time, the teachers do not have the day off. They are in an inservice or a faculty meeting.

7. Faculty meetings, if not held on days off, are held after school hours.


In conclusion, teachers do not only work "six hours a day for eight months." If you add in the planning and paper grading and meetings and classes, you're looking at fifty to sixty hour weeks.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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In conclusion, teachers do not only work "six hours a day for eight months." If you add in the planning and paper grading and meetings and classes, you're looking at fifty to sixty hour weeks.

That's still less than the average person puts in a year, and in only 9 months. (avg teacher 1920 hours per year w/2 months off, avg. citizen 2000 hours also with no paid vacation and lucky to get a few days off)
Grading papers... etc.. We ALL have to keep learning & educating ourselves to keep our jobs, it makes us a valuable asset and able to KEEP your job. I take classes noone pays for, I work hours every night without getting paid.. it's called preperation and education, and if I don't do it... well, someone else will come along who knows more and take my clients away. Yet I still find time to do all of that, teach my daughter and stay above poverty level.

FYI.... the 23,000 that you were making.... is WAY above average.... in fact, in 2003 the average family of 5 didn't make that much money. (http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/03poverty.htm). So you were living on more money as most american families with 5 kids.... (including Californians)

It IS a tough job... but greed is not the answer.
Assistance from the parents IS.
I hate to push anyones buttons, but this is serious and no amount of wanting MORE MONEY is going to fix the kids attitudes, learning disabilities, or teacher motivation. Those situations will still be there if you made as much as the average family of 8!

[Nightingale 0]

First off, Dawn, the statistics you cited include the ENTIRE US. Yes, it includes California, which is the MOST expensive, but it also includes states in which the cost of living is extremely low. Looking at averages works very well when you are trying to live in a place with an average cost of living. It does not work when you are looking at something on the top of the scale.

It also does not take into account that different cities and counties have VERY different cost of living. It is EXTREMELY difficult to find a one bedroom apartment in Orange County (very expensive, conservative area, where the school I taught was located) renting for less than $1000.00 per month. The apartment complexes would not even run an application for me, because I did not qualify because, according to their standards, I was considered "Low Income".

According to the California HUD guidelines, someone making 23,000 per year in Orange is considered VERY LOW INCOME. That is for a SINGLE PERSON.

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/hpd/hrc/rep/state/inc2k3c3.pdf

You must take into account the area, not just across the US.

Also, someone working your average of 40 hours a week works 2080 hours per year.

Someone working 50 hours per week for nine months works 2000 hours, almost the same.

Someone working 60 hours per week (closer to the norm for good teachers) works 2400 hours. MORE than someone working an average year (52 weeks, 40 hrs per).

You say you take classes because you want to be more valuable to your employer. These classes are not required of you, but you take them anyway. Its something you do on your off time to improve your skills. Teachers are REQUIRED to participate, or they lose their jobs. There is a difference.

[Nightingale 0]

Also, you misread the link you posted. It did not reflect AVERAGE income, but federal poverty guidelines. the AVERAGE family of five did not make $23,000 a year, the family of five making that much or less would be considered living at or below the poverty level.

[hmatousek 0]

I suggest you ask your teacher friend if she/he really likes having to take all those breaks in the year just to go back to school and reteach everything the students forgot. I for one would love to work year round, not have so many vacations if I could be paid equally to my friends with a MBA.

I know that won't happen, there's no money for it. Once again not by fault of the teachers. It is actually more of a pain in the ass than anything.

Also find out how many hours after school and on weekends he/she used to grade and plan. Not to mention graduate work which is mandatory in most states and not reimbursed by the government. That "free time" is really not free at all.

Heather

Life doesn't have to be perfect in order to be beautiful!