Myth #3 - Guns are bad

[downwardspiral 0]

Do you have kids? If so, have you or do you plan on sending them to a gun safety course?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[quade 4]

I like to think that I'm responsible enough to realize how irresponsible I am -- therefore, no kids for me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[spidermonky 0]

Can someone explain to me the 10 round clip ban? I live in TN. Is it illegal to buy, sell, use?
Here's something I found on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3657756194&category=36257

Called 10 round so ebay doesn't drop the item.

If I bought something like this, would it be wise to take with me to the shooting range?

[downwardspiral 0]

ok then....in that case what would think about parents who don't send their children to a gun safety course? provided they don't teach they're kids about gun safety themselves.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[quade 4]

Quote

ok then....in that case what would think about parents who don't send their children to a gun safety course? provided they don't teach they're kids about gun safety themselves.

I would say it depends on a number of factors.

If there are guns in the household, the children should almost definately be educated about them.

If there are guns in the households of any known playmates of the children, then again, almost definately.

At what age? I'm not sure. Males in almost any case. Females might not need it if none of the above conditions are found. Not being sexist, just realistic about which kids have a tendancy to do what with things they find.

BTW, I have a tendancy to think that parents in general make lousy teachers when it comes to a lot of things. Just because a person has sex, doesn't make them a good teacher. If the parent isn't an expert in the field, I'd want them to seek outside guidance.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[downwardspiral 0]

Quote

If there are guns in the households of any known playmates of the children, then again, almost definately.

Parents won't personally know all the kids their children hang out with. Because of this I feel that teaching all children about gun safety is equaly as important as teaching them about sex.

Why? I'll tell you. When I was 14 I went over to a friends house after school. A friend that my parents didn't even know existed. His parents weren't home and he felt the need to show off 'his' shotgun. I asked if it was loaded. He said,"Nah my dad never keeps em loaded."

He ended up putting a hole in his floor because it was in fact loaded. He was gonna point the thing down the hallway into his bedroom before I protested. Strangley, he listened to me when I told him to point it at the floor. Too bad he wouldn't listen to me when I told him not to pull the trigger and put it away.

Fortunately I knew enough about guns at that age to be very afraid of 'em loaded or not. This kid didn't have the sleightest clue.

Although neither of our parents found out about this incident, I never hung out with that kid again.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Kennedy 0]

Basically, federal law says you can't manufacture magazines that hold more than ten rounds anymore. I believe you can still sell them to anyone you please. [ps - I know you know it's a magazine, not a clip, but I have to say it]

Those magazines are fairly useless, but they can be fun if you have a full auto glock. Now THAT makes for a fun experience at the range. Though I suppose if you ever have to beat someone to death with your firearm, the extra length sticking out of the mag well should come in handy for increased flip speed.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Quote

Parents won't personally know all the kids their children hang out with. Because of this I feel that teaching all children about gun safety is equaly as important as teaching them about sex.

A. That's just f'in bad parenting. If you don't know who your kids are hanging out with -- f'in find out! Yes, your kids will always be finding new friends to hang out with after school, but hopefully by the time their old enough to do this, they'd have some exposure to gun safety already.

B. Didn't you read my "At what age? I'm not sure. Males in almost any case."

So, what is the right age?

I dunno. I think they have to be old enough to understand the concepts of reality and mortality first otherwise it's just a waste of time. So I'm guessing that before about 7ish it's just pointless and maybe even excessively dangerous in that they really won't understand you can't point the gun at a person without dire consequences. 10? 12?

What's the age you'd let a kid hang around at a "new kid's" house after school instead of walking straight home?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

I have friends who received theri first .22 rifle at 12. They're still here, so methinks they had a pretty good grasp on gun safety before then.

Just a thought.

(edit) oh yeah, and a healthy dose of mortal fear of their father.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

Quote

I have friends who received theri first .22 rifle at 12. They're still here, so methinks they had a pretty good grasp on gun safety before then.

OR, maybe at 12 their parents thought that was the right age at which to introduce the concepts to them.

I might also add that it might make quite a bit of difference to the parents in deciding when is the right time depending on if the family lives in an urban, suburan or rural setting.

I realize that some folks living in a rural setting might find this inconceivable.

Seriously, hunting and plinking aren't big hobbies in my local community, so the recreational aspects are somewhat limited for the kids. Sure, the parents might have a gun for protection purposes, but I don't think the average kid in my suburban "Leave It To Beaver" neighborhood is given a .22 for his 12th birthday.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[downwardspiral 0]

Well my parents didn't approve. I was a "latchkey kid" and was expected to come straight home from school. I'm not sure if most kids are like me but I risked punishment quite often and got away with a hell of a lot more things than I got busted for. I certainly don't believe that parents can and will knowing everything about what their children are doing. For those parents that think they do, they are just fooling themselves.

I would think 8-10 years of age would be a good time to introduce kids to gun safety. I don't know for sure but that is the age range parents start allowing their children some freedom.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Kennedy 0]

quade, just remember I grew up in suburban NJ about 30 minutes from NYC, and I went to school inside the DC beltway. I know what you're saying. Those friends were definitely rural in the upbringing.

But they were given the rifle as their own at that point to carry where they would. The concept were solidly established. [brow-beaten in?]

I'm all for the parent making the decision, even if it's to teach that guns are horrible and should all be destroyed. I disagree, but that's their choice. Me, I just hope I can still teach my kids what I want to when I do have some.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Eddie Eagle seems to be effective at a much younger age.

"Stop, Don't touch, Leave the area, Tell an adult."


seems pretty good for young kids to me.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Seriously, hunting and plinking aren't big hobbies in my local community, so the recreational aspects are somewhat limited for the kids. Sure, the parents might have a gun for protection purposes, but I don't think the average kid in my suburban "Leave It To Beaver" neighborhood is given a .22 for his 12th birthday.

On an aside:
Did you know that it used to be very common for school-aged kids to bring their .22s and .410 shotguns to SCHOOL, leave them in a locker, and then stop somewhere to hunt squirrels and stuff after school -- AND THERE WERE NO CHARGES BROUGHT, NO SUSPENSIONS OR EXPULSIONS, NO ZERO-TOLERANCE B.S., AND NO ONE WAS SHOT.

So in case people want to blame the "easy availability of guns" for the gun crime rate (falling though it is), think about that. Kids brought guns to SCHOOL and there was not a problem of school shootings. Mustn't that mean the problem is not guns, but what kids are doing to each other lately? The guns were around but there wasn't the violence. What has changed?

Besides, prior to 1968, when a flood of senseless gun control was unleashed (including the "sporting purposes test" for importation of handguns) on the heels of various high-profile assassinations, YOU COULD ORDER A GUN BY MAIL ORDER. That is, ALL DURING OUR HISTORY UP TIL 1968, YOU COULD BUY GUNS THROUGH THE MAIL.

So how does that square with the idea that "guns are easier than ever to get," which is the bullshit pap you hear from anti-gunners. Guns are easier than ever to get? I've seen anti-gunners claim that it's easier for someone to buy a gun than to buy CANDY. They actually made that claim. And I say, "Oh, an instant check on the NCIS is not a block to gun purchase?" "A five-day waiting period is not a block to gun purchase?" "Having to have a permit to PURCHASE a gun, like in NY, IL, MA, is not a block to gun purchase?" IT IS HARDER THAN EVER TO OBTAIN A GUN, EXCEPT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT *ILLEGALLY*. And if you're talking about illegally, well, then, it was ALWAYS possible to STEAL a gun or get one on the black market!

The lies just have to stop. Today's Florida Sun-Sentinel has a letter from some schmuck spewing more lies about how the Brady law and "Assault Weapons Ban" have cleared our streets of so many guns and they must be renewed in September. I'm about to email a rebuttal letter. Bullshit lies must not go unchallenged, or too many people come to believe they are "FACT," in the absence of refutation by TRUE fact.

---Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[winsor 236]

Quote

On the flip side . . .

How freekin' difficult would it be to put in a pressure relief valve so to limit the amount of pressure possible?

Not very.

If you try to make something idiot-proof, they will build a better idiot. The goal of doing so is fundamentally flawed.

The lowest-common-denominator mentality is repellant. I prefer to limit the effect that stupidity has on my life, rather than treating it as a driving force.

You can live in a Nerf world if you choose. I try to avoid people who seek to do so, and do not grant them voice in my affairs.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[bmcd308 0]

I am only 33, and I was on a skeet team at my high school. I would bring my shotgun to school in my car, walk with it from the parking lot to the office, and put it in the gun locker that the school had for the dorm students' firearms and the ones that the school owned. Only rule was that you had to bring it straight from your car to the office, and that the action had to be open when you were walking around campus with it.

We did not shoot each other.

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[Luv2Fall 0]

Agreed - although I lived on a farm, my family moved to the burbs while I was in school. One bringing a gun to school meant nothing - availibilty was wide open - but we didn't shoot each other.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

We did not shoot each other.

Well, obviuosly you were doing something wrong. Sheesh. Don't you know that it's the primary responsibility of a person with a gun to shoot someone else? Anyone will do, really. Rhyme and reason only serve to confuse the issue.

I brand you as a slacker.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Guns are easier than ever to get? I've seen anti-gunners claim that it's easier for someone to buy a gun than to buy CANDY. They actually made that claim.

Easier than candy? That's a new one to me but i'm not surprised. Know who said it?

Let's see, candy is sold at the front of just about every store I can think of right now, and though not easy to introduce new ones, selling what we have takes about 30 seconds with cash.

Guns? Yeah, riiiiiiiiiight. Licensing, waiting periods, background checks, limit on numbers available, and the list goes on and on.

But definitely, guns are much easier to get than candy.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

The product was designed for kids. It only makes sense to limit it's lethality.

So we should prevent kids from having anything that could get themselves or others hurt, if used improperly. Okay, that means we've got to confiscate their pens and pencils, and make them write in crayon, so that they can't stick it in someone's eye. And no more bicycles or roller skates!

I know that means that life won't be much fun any more. But hey, it's for their own good!

[quade 4]

It's a matter of what is and is not reasonalbe. Clearly, it's in the mind of each individual as to what is or is not reasonable, but in the bicycle example, we (at least in my part of the country) do require children to wear helmets now.

I went through my childhood riding bikes without a helmet and I survived, so, I guess I could make a statment that I think it's unreasonable to require them on children now. However, in societal terms, it's much less expensive to have kids wear helmets than treat the head wounds from not wearing them. Are we punishing all because some kids are too stupid to be allowed to ride bicycles? Well, I suppose you -could- look at it that way, but the reality is that kids -are- stupid and tend to do stupid things and there are some things they are not in control of, like motorists. So, to -me- the bike helmet law makes sense.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[downwardspiral 0]

Why stop at the bicycle? Why not make em wear em whenever they leave the protection of their padded houses?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Can someone explain to me the 10 round clip ban? I live in TN. Is it illegal to buy, sell, use? Here's something I found on ebay: Click Here Called 10 round so ebay doesn't drop the item. If I bought something like this, would it be wise to take with me to the shooting range?

That's a fishy advertisement. They're actually 30-round magazines, it appears.

Firearm magazines that hold over 10 rounds of ammo were banned a few years ago. However, those that were owned prior to the ban, remain legal, and can continue to be used, and sold. No problem.

Since the supply of those legal over-10 magazines is now finite, that means that the prices are going up, as you can see by that ebay ad.

So you can buy these, and use them. It is not against the law.

Only law enforcement is allowed to have magazines that hold over 10 rounds, which are manufactured "post-ban" - after the date the law was implemented. And those magazine should have the date of manufacture stamped in them somewhere to indicate their post-ban status.

It's a stupid law. But lots of stupid laws get passed...

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

ok then....in that case what would think about parents who don't send their children to a gun safety course? provided they don't teach they're kids about gun safety themselves.

Yep, some parents don't teach their kids gun safety. Especially those that don't own a gun. But they fail to take into account that their kid might someday run across a gun somewhere else, such as at a playmates house, or out on the street.

So they still need to know something about gun safety anyway.

The NRA Safety and Education Division provides a wide array of programs for members and the public, with a concentration on children. The most popular is the award winning "Eddie Eagle Gun Safety Program" which has reached over 12 million children with its lifesaving message; "If you see a gun; Stop! Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult." Numerous camps and activities are also conducted in cooperation with the groups such as the Boy Scouts, 4-H and The American Legion.

This program should be made mandatory in all public schools.

Click here for more info on...Eddie Eagle

[quade 4]

Quote

The most popular is the award winning "Eddie Eagle Gun Safety Program" which has reached over 12 million children with its lifesaving message; "If you see a gun; Stop! Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult."

Can you provide a link to that campaign? I don't question its existence at all because I've heard of it before, but I do sort of question its effectiveness. I want to do a little poking around.

My basic thoughts are that until a child actually becomes aware of mortality and consequence that a campaign such as this would be about as effective as telling them to not touch a cookie on the coffee table.

Oh wait, THERE'S the link -- thanks.

Interesting . . .

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver