lawrocket 3 #51 February 4, 2004 Hell, no! You've got us all wrong. When that stuff starts, we negotiate a contract. That really gets me in the mood.. No tying up. That's false imprisonment. A dignitary tort... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #52 February 4, 2004 That's what I refer to as an "anti-carjacking weapon." Its big, scary and would be an absolute pain in the ass to try to carry/conceal. They ARE fun to shoot, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #53 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuote Are you required to have a permit for it? If so, does this mean that you are in violation of the law, even though you don't have any ammo for it, and have no intention of hurting anyone with it? Basically- yes. I would need an owner's permit to legally have it, buy ammo for it and shoot it at a club. Over here, you need to supply some proof of purchase to get a permit. If my great-uncle ever had any papers for that gun, they are long gone and his will said nothing about it, much less about leaving it to me. Quote What kind of gun is it? If it is a WWII firearm, it should be safe to shoot with modern ammo. Firearms don't really degrade with age, unless you've let it get rusty or something. I can only wonder if you feel an awful feeling knowing that your government would consider you a criminal if it knew you had this gun -- even though you yourself know that you are not a violent criminal and plan never to use the gun, much less in anger against a person. This, to me, is the big lie of gun control: that everyone is safer when no one has guns -- even those who are no threat with them to anybody. The other part of that big lie should be very evident: despite the law against possession, here you are in possession of a gun they don't even know you have! The law is supposed to be protecting everyone in society from people who have guns, right? Well if YOU have one and the law couldn't prevent or correct that, what about all the people who ARE criminals, who DO want to hurt and rob others, who have no harder of a time getting guns than you had? Kinda demonstrates the worthlessness of such laws. They disarm only those not inclined toward hurting others. Doesn't this expose the idiocy of gun-control and gun bans like in England and Japan and Australia and Germany and Brazil and NYC and DC and Chicago and...-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #54 February 4, 2004 Big BOOM. Real Fun - different kind of fun than full auto - but fun - kinda hurts the hands after about 50 rounds though. I was thinking about getting my concealed carry - what would be your suggestion - I have shot expert with the navy's version of a 45. For the life of me I can't remember what the brand was though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jerry81 10 #55 February 4, 2004 I'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #56 February 4, 2004 Depends on how much you're willing to spend. Hard to go wrong w/ a Glock, but if you can afford it, get a Kimber Ultra Carry or the Pro-Carry.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #57 February 4, 2004 QuoteI'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. That would be cool, in the town of Perfect. I'm not going to take that chance. You come at me with a knife and threaten me and mine or my friends, and i'm armed - kiss it goodbye. And I'm Positive that we live no where near PerfectI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #58 February 4, 2004 Quotebut if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Don't worry about it. The percentage of people that are shot with hand guns and survive is actually quite high. I was just hearing a story today about a Border Patrol agent who shot a guy twice, square in the chest, with a .40. They were out in the middle of nowhere and it took about an hour for a Helo to show up. The guy lived.....that's why in my business we have something called a "Security Shot." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #59 February 4, 2004 QuoteI'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Yep, so would any law abiding person. We don't want to kill, and we typically would hope the perp survives. But, I'm gonna shoot center mass. Not at moving spaghetti legs, or a small head, or a flailing arm. If I'm off a little bit aiming for the leg, I've just shot a bystander. if I'm off a couple of degrees aiming center mass, I've still hit the target. If I am goign to be forced to shoot, I better be prepared to kill, and hoep that death is not the cosequence. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jerry81 10 #60 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuotebut if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Don't worry about it. The percentage of people that are shot with hand guns and survive is actually quite high. I was just hearing a story today about a Border Patrol agent who shot a guy twice, square in the chest, with a .40. They were out in the middle of nowhere and it took about an hour for a Helo to show up. The guy lived.....that's why in my business we have something called a "Security Shot." That actually doesn't bode well for all of those who would shoot the hypothetical attacker in the chest...I guess you have to finish the job to avoid a lawsuit. As for everything else, notice the emphasized 'if' in my reply. If I'm sure I can get the same results without killing anyone, I'll do so. If I'm not, and I have the law backing me up, then I guess I'd fire more than twice. But since this thread started with a hypothetical situation, here's another for Jeffrey; imagine the attacker is a bright high school kid, straight As, quite likely to become a valuable member of society, and his friends, as a joke, slipped him some datura tea. Bang (bang, bang), there goes the potential inventor of the cancer cure... Also, this thread started out funny... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #61 February 4, 2004 Quoteimagine the attacker is a bright high school kid, straight As, quite likely to become a valuable member of society, and his friends, as a joke, slipped him some datura tea. Bang (bang, bang), there goes the potential inventor of the cancer cure... If he's attacking me, my lady or my child, he's gonna get shot. My fault he's dead? Yes, I am the proximate cause of his death. But not my responsibilty that he is dead. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ian84 0 #62 February 4, 2004 What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #63 February 4, 2004 Quote What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Of course.....and when you get into court just remember to say "Well...that guy was looking shifty too." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #64 February 4, 2004 Clay's response is dead on, actually, no pun intended. To use deadly force in the aid of another, at least in most places, you better be correct on what the heck is going on. If you are wrong, you may be in jail for a long time. At least, that is my understanding for most places. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pdj6p 0 #65 February 4, 2004 "Nope, I don't reload. I was going to get into it, but I had to back my shooting tempo off, so I don't have a need, since I'm down to shooting only about 200-300rds a month " ________________________________________________- Dave you do know that shooting reloads in your glock would void the warranty don't you? Oh and my .40 would go bang 15 times before it went click. Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheAnvil 0 #66 February 4, 2004 Never shot that one. My uncle is trying to sell me some sort of H&K - I think that might be it. What do you think of it?Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #67 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuote What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Of course.....and when you get into court just remember to say "Well...that guy was looking shifty too." Naw, just look the Judge in the eyes, grin, and say that, "Some People just need Killin!"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rainbo 0 #68 February 4, 2004 It's a great gun. Nice and light, but packs a wallop. Frame is about the same as my S&W Model 59. Thats nice because I can carry both with my double Ambi shoulder rig without having to switch holsters. RainboRainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #69 February 4, 2004 QuoteDave you do know that shooting reloads in your glock would void the warranty don't you? Yup, there's a reason for that, has to do with the gas channels and the open lead, its easily avoidable though, depending on how you clean your weapon.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #70 February 4, 2004 Quotedepending on how you clean your weapon. In the shower....lots of soap and a VIGOROUS back and forth motion. Oh wait......are we talking about the same thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #71 February 4, 2004 QuoteWhat if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? In TX, yes. For anywhere else, I couldn't tell you. For instance, if you walk into a C-store and someone has a gun pointed at the clerk or a knife drawn on the clerk, you have the right to use lethal force. You will not be persecuted if you do or if you don't, its your judgement if you're willing to take action for someone you don't know, putting your life at risk (you never know if there's a sleeper in the store/outside the store with a weapon as well).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #72 February 4, 2004 I said weapon, not pellet firing sheep killer. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peacefuljeffrey 0 #73 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? In TX, yes. For anywhere else, I couldn't tell you. For instance, if you walk into a C-store and someone has a gun pointed at the clerk or a knife drawn on the clerk, you have the right to use lethal force. You will not be persecuted if you do or if you don't, its your judgement if you're willing to take action for someone you don't know, putting your life at risk (you never know if there's a sleeper in the store/outside the store with a weapon as well). In NY and here in FL, when I've gotten information about the use of "deadly physical force," it always said that it was justified if there was a threat of grievous bodily harm or death to yourself or another person. That means if a rapist has a knife to the throat of a woman and is on top of her looking like he's about to kill her, you can shoot him and it'd be legal. It's a fair presumption on your part that a knife to the throat demonstrates intent to kill, because if you are held to any stricter standard of determining whether he intends so, well, the knife would have to have been already drawn across her throat, right? That's why you can assume you're at risk of deadly harm if someone points a gun at you. What's the alternative, I ask of the liberals: do I have to wait til I see the muzzle flash before it's fair for me to conclude he "means it"? Dave, btw, "prosecute" -- unless you really meant "PERsecute." I thought that was an apt freudian slip. It seems that some localities actually DO "PERsecute" those who act in self defense, since it's not a very PC thing to do these days... ---Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #74 February 4, 2004 ah, that's a funny one. I knew Montanians and Southerners thought a lot alike.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #75 February 4, 2004 QuoteI knew Montanians and Southerners thought a lot alike.....Steve1 I grew up in the South but have a house in Montana. I'm BOTH!!! Just differen't flavors of REDNECKS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
turtlespeed 226 #54 February 4, 2004 Big BOOM. Real Fun - different kind of fun than full auto - but fun - kinda hurts the hands after about 50 rounds though. I was thinking about getting my concealed carry - what would be your suggestion - I have shot expert with the navy's version of a 45. For the life of me I can't remember what the brand was though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #55 February 4, 2004 I'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #56 February 4, 2004 Depends on how much you're willing to spend. Hard to go wrong w/ a Glock, but if you can afford it, get a Kimber Ultra Carry or the Pro-Carry.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #57 February 4, 2004 QuoteI'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. That would be cool, in the town of Perfect. I'm not going to take that chance. You come at me with a knife and threaten me and mine or my friends, and i'm armed - kiss it goodbye. And I'm Positive that we live no where near PerfectI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #58 February 4, 2004 Quotebut if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Don't worry about it. The percentage of people that are shot with hand guns and survive is actually quite high. I was just hearing a story today about a Border Patrol agent who shot a guy twice, square in the chest, with a .40. They were out in the middle of nowhere and it took about an hour for a Helo to show up. The guy lived.....that's why in my business we have something called a "Security Shot." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #59 February 4, 2004 QuoteI'm sorry, but if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Yep, so would any law abiding person. We don't want to kill, and we typically would hope the perp survives. But, I'm gonna shoot center mass. Not at moving spaghetti legs, or a small head, or a flailing arm. If I'm off a little bit aiming for the leg, I've just shot a bystander. if I'm off a couple of degrees aiming center mass, I've still hit the target. If I am goign to be forced to shoot, I better be prepared to kill, and hoep that death is not the cosequence. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #60 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuotebut if I have a choice between wounding and killing a person where both have the same result (in this case, end of immediate threat to me), I will ALWAYS choose wounding, no matter how good the legal arguments for killing are. Don't worry about it. The percentage of people that are shot with hand guns and survive is actually quite high. I was just hearing a story today about a Border Patrol agent who shot a guy twice, square in the chest, with a .40. They were out in the middle of nowhere and it took about an hour for a Helo to show up. The guy lived.....that's why in my business we have something called a "Security Shot." That actually doesn't bode well for all of those who would shoot the hypothetical attacker in the chest...I guess you have to finish the job to avoid a lawsuit. As for everything else, notice the emphasized 'if' in my reply. If I'm sure I can get the same results without killing anyone, I'll do so. If I'm not, and I have the law backing me up, then I guess I'd fire more than twice. But since this thread started with a hypothetical situation, here's another for Jeffrey; imagine the attacker is a bright high school kid, straight As, quite likely to become a valuable member of society, and his friends, as a joke, slipped him some datura tea. Bang (bang, bang), there goes the potential inventor of the cancer cure... Also, this thread started out funny... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #61 February 4, 2004 Quoteimagine the attacker is a bright high school kid, straight As, quite likely to become a valuable member of society, and his friends, as a joke, slipped him some datura tea. Bang (bang, bang), there goes the potential inventor of the cancer cure... If he's attacking me, my lady or my child, he's gonna get shot. My fault he's dead? Yes, I am the proximate cause of his death. But not my responsibilty that he is dead. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #62 February 4, 2004 What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #63 February 4, 2004 Quote What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Of course.....and when you get into court just remember to say "Well...that guy was looking shifty too." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #64 February 4, 2004 Clay's response is dead on, actually, no pun intended. To use deadly force in the aid of another, at least in most places, you better be correct on what the heck is going on. If you are wrong, you may be in jail for a long time. At least, that is my understanding for most places. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pdj6p 0 #65 February 4, 2004 "Nope, I don't reload. I was going to get into it, but I had to back my shooting tempo off, so I don't have a need, since I'm down to shooting only about 200-300rds a month " ________________________________________________- Dave you do know that shooting reloads in your glock would void the warranty don't you? Oh and my .40 would go bang 15 times before it went click. Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #66 February 4, 2004 Never shot that one. My uncle is trying to sell me some sort of H&K - I think that might be it. What do you think of it?Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #67 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuote What if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? Of course.....and when you get into court just remember to say "Well...that guy was looking shifty too." Naw, just look the Judge in the eyes, grin, and say that, "Some People just need Killin!"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #68 February 4, 2004 It's a great gun. Nice and light, but packs a wallop. Frame is about the same as my S&W Model 59. Thats nice because I can carry both with my double Ambi shoulder rig without having to switch holsters. RainboRainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #69 February 4, 2004 QuoteDave you do know that shooting reloads in your glock would void the warranty don't you? Yup, there's a reason for that, has to do with the gas channels and the open lead, its easily avoidable though, depending on how you clean your weapon.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #70 February 4, 2004 Quotedepending on how you clean your weapon. In the shower....lots of soap and a VIGOROUS back and forth motion. Oh wait......are we talking about the same thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #71 February 4, 2004 QuoteWhat if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? In TX, yes. For anywhere else, I couldn't tell you. For instance, if you walk into a C-store and someone has a gun pointed at the clerk or a knife drawn on the clerk, you have the right to use lethal force. You will not be persecuted if you do or if you don't, its your judgement if you're willing to take action for someone you don't know, putting your life at risk (you never know if there's a sleeper in the store/outside the store with a weapon as well).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #72 February 4, 2004 I said weapon, not pellet firing sheep killer. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #73 February 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat if the threat is to someone else?? Can you shoot the bad guy in that case?? In TX, yes. For anywhere else, I couldn't tell you. For instance, if you walk into a C-store and someone has a gun pointed at the clerk or a knife drawn on the clerk, you have the right to use lethal force. You will not be persecuted if you do or if you don't, its your judgement if you're willing to take action for someone you don't know, putting your life at risk (you never know if there's a sleeper in the store/outside the store with a weapon as well). In NY and here in FL, when I've gotten information about the use of "deadly physical force," it always said that it was justified if there was a threat of grievous bodily harm or death to yourself or another person. That means if a rapist has a knife to the throat of a woman and is on top of her looking like he's about to kill her, you can shoot him and it'd be legal. It's a fair presumption on your part that a knife to the throat demonstrates intent to kill, because if you are held to any stricter standard of determining whether he intends so, well, the knife would have to have been already drawn across her throat, right? That's why you can assume you're at risk of deadly harm if someone points a gun at you. What's the alternative, I ask of the liberals: do I have to wait til I see the muzzle flash before it's fair for me to conclude he "means it"? Dave, btw, "prosecute" -- unless you really meant "PERsecute." I thought that was an apt freudian slip. It seems that some localities actually DO "PERsecute" those who act in self defense, since it's not a very PC thing to do these days... ---Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #74 February 4, 2004 ah, that's a funny one. I knew Montanians and Southerners thought a lot alike.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #75 February 4, 2004 QuoteI knew Montanians and Southerners thought a lot alike.....Steve1 I grew up in the South but have a house in Montana. I'm BOTH!!! Just differen't flavors of REDNECKS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
