Libs, we have a consistency problem...

[benny 0]

any references for your "patriot act in a nutshell" or am I just to take your word for it that its harmless and does nothing to strip American citizens of their liberty?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[kmcguffee 0]

Quote

any references for your "patriot act in a nutshell" or am I just to take your word for it that its harmless and does nothing to strip American citizens of their liberty?

If you want to search and validate it go ahead. I've been forced to learn it. You can either believe me or not. I'll sleep just fine either way.

I never said it didn't take away some liberty. I just made the point that you didn't know what you were talking about when it comes to the Patriot Act.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[benny 0]

Well just to keep up with my good faith efforts to put some actual sources behind what I say, I'll list a few here, granted some may have a liberal slant, but I think the general consensus is that the Patriot Act makes it easier for the government to spy on its own citizens, whether it has probable cause or not.

Clicky
Clicky again
I'll even be fair and give this Clicky from the DOJ, although it's pretty laughable.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[crapflinger2000 1]

Hey baby! See ya this weekend!

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[kmcguffee 0]

Try this http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/hatch-fisa.html

Quote

(Sec. 204) Clarifies that nothing in code provisions regarding pen registers shall be deemed to affect the acquisition by the Government of specified foreign intelligence information, and that procedures under FISA shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance and the interception of domestic wire and oral (current law) and electronic communications may be conducted.***

From here: http://www.evergreen.edu/library/govdocs/hotopics/usapatriotact/title2.html

The requirements under FISA to authorize a "wiretap" are

(2) The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 allows wiretapping of aliens and citizens in the US based on a finding of probable cause to believe that the target is a member of a foreign terrorist group or an agent of a foreign power. For US citizens and permanent resident aliens, there must also be probable cause to believe that the person is engaged in activities that "may" involve a criminal violation. Suspicion of illegal activity is not required in the case of aliens who are not permanent residents.***

From here: http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/wiretap_overview.html

Now your comment about no probable cause required to wiretap US citizens comes from where?

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[TheAnvil 0]

OK. They were flukes.

Kosovo brief: which NATO member was threatened by Milisovic's rule? Which member was attacked? There was NO need for US intervention there at all. Europe should have handled its own problem. Instead, they duped Clinton into doing so. Good for Europe - bad for the US. Your comparison is ridiculous.

You renounce the cookie cutter policy then bring up the well-known fact that two world wars originated in Europe. That's akin to slamming the Bush deficit whilst advocating a socialized medical program, so I can buy the tactic as your modus operandi if not the argument itself.

If you take away the oil factor the US has no real economic interest in the middle east. Dubai is kind of a crossroads for all trade between Europe and the area so perhaps that's a tangential interest due to our close relationship w/European nations. However, as Carter aptly realized, there IS a tangible economic interest there for the United States - oil trade. Ignore that if you like, but don't expect much credibility with regards to any argument that stems from doing so.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!